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Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms #857132 07/09/25 05:52 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 20,360 Australia Noel96 OP Veteran
OP Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 20,360 Australia	For anyone who hasn't see this, here is a 2020 summary of True Peak Limit (dBTP) and LUFS-I and Dynamic Range for various streaming platforms. I came across this table while investigating how to use Reaper's limiter to reduce digital clipping of peaks while expanding the volume of the overall. Reaper's dynamic plugin "JS: Loudness Meter Peak/RMS/LUFS (Cockos)" is excellent for giving real-time feedback on clipping and various LUFS data. It is perfect for visualising output. When placed on the Master Track after a mastering plugin, this Loudness Meter plugin works well with any mastering tool (e.g. Ozone). This is the Kenny Gioia video that I was watching (in case anyone is interested). MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2026 audios on Soundcloud

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Noel96 #857135 07/09/25 06:59 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,449 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,449 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Thanks, Noel. I've used the target of -14 LUFS for many years; it seems to work out well. I did not put my commercial music on most of these platforms; CD Baby did, so I don't know what settings they used (and it was almost 20 years ago for most of my serious recording). BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Matt Finley #857136 07/09/25 07:12 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 20,360 Australia Noel96 OP Veteran
OP Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 20,360 Australia	Hi Matt. I only have a few songs on Soundcloud. I'm way behind on all this information so I'm giving myself a crash course. The resources that are available on the internet these days (Youtube expecially) are incredible. I'm learning lots as I go along. --Noel MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2026 audios on Soundcloud

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Noel96 #857263 07/11/25 12:39 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Mar 2025 Posts: 942 Adelaide, Sth Aust. Andrew Dee Expert
Andrew Dee Expert Joined: Mar 2025 Posts: 942 Adelaide, Sth Aust.	Thank you Noel - this is the second thing I have learned today - I didn't know LUFS existed, but it makes sense. This is yet another reason I am seriously considering focusing on Reaper (I have Cakewalk Sonar as well). Andrew Regards, Andrew D Adelaide, Sth Aust Soundcloud: https://on.soundcloud.com/SQE4btVvNVkLq74e9 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@andrewoftheantipodes

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Noel96 #857293 07/11/25 06:59 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 20,360 Australia Noel96 OP Veteran
OP Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 20,360 Australia	Hi Andrew. I've been using Reaper for a long time now. It has become very popular. I noticed just recently that there are heaps of videos on Youtube. One of the best sites is Kenny Gioia's site called Reaper Mania. He's been very prolific and focuses on teaching people about the software. His videos are great. Reaper Mania (link) --Noel MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2026 audios on Soundcloud

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Noel96 #857390 07/12/25 07:09 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 15,963 GA USA Janice & Bud Veteran
Janice & Bud Veteran Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 15,963 GA USA	My experience has been that 14 LUFS is very quiet for SoudCloud. They are apparently one of the few platforms that make no adjustments to what you upload. I'm a big fan of loundnesspenalty.com - free and no signup required and very fast. It only takes a few seconds to see how and if your song will be altered by the platforms. I use this as a basis for all my mastering. A LOT of the forum songs would require huge changes by the platforms as many are very loud. And the changes made my the platforms can introduce artifacts IMHO. You can check it out here at this safe link. https://www.loudnesspenalty.com Here's what our current forum song looks like: Bud Last edited by Janice & Bud; 07/12/25 07:19 AM. Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Janice & Bud #857436 07/12/25 11:43 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Mar 2025 Posts: 942 Adelaide, Sth Aust. Andrew Dee Expert
Andrew Dee Expert Joined: Mar 2025 Posts: 942 Adelaide, Sth Aust.	Originally Posted by Janice & Bud My experience has been that 14 LUFS is very quiet for SoudCloud. They are apparently one of the few platforms that make no adjustments to what you upload. I'm a big fan of loundnesspenalty.com - free and no signup required and very fast. It only takes a few seconds to see how and if your song will be altered by the platforms. I use this as a basis for all my mastering. A LOT of the forum songs would require huge changes by the platforms as many are very loud. And the changes made my the platforms can introduce artifacts IMHO. You can check it out here at this safe link. https://www.loudnesspenalty.com Thanks Bud - excuse my questions in ignorance - I've only learned of LUFS existence due to Noel's thread and still learning DAW and mixing stuff as I go. I had wondered why my songs posted had different volumes on different sites. Do you aim for a LUFS target before checking with loudnesspenalty.com, or do you go by experience and feel and then just check it with loudnesspenalty.com before posting? If it's too loud, do you use a limiter on your master track final mix? If you do target LUFS, is it the 'integrated' measure, or do you use short range measure for the peak section of the track? Andrew Regards, Andrew D Adelaide, Sth Aust Soundcloud: https://on.soundcloud.com/SQE4btVvNVkLq74e9 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@andrewoftheantipodes

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Noel96 #857449 07/13/25 04:39 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,449 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,449 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	My experience is that you can use these charts and tools to get it close to the way each streaming service wants it, but you do not have control; they do. If you are just a hair over their limit they will make adjustments you may not like. Many years ago I learned you cannot predict what an individual radio station will do to squash the dynamic range out of your song, only that it will. This streaming environment still unfortunately has some of that and it has been the Wild West as far as moving standards, if my experiences over the past six years are still true. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Noel96 #857463 07/13/25 07:52 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,971 Sillie Con Valley, California Mike Halloran Expert
Mike Halloran Expert Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,971 Sillie Con Valley, California	There’s a 10W radio network called K-LOVE that squashes your mix to an extreme not found anywhere else — yet some tracks still sound good. How? We who know use brickwall limiters to suck all the dynamics out of our clients’ tracks in advance. Our mixes are unchanged when broadcast. Some things really are that simple. BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Noel96 #857470 07/13/25 10:27 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,449 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,449 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Mike, isn’t that aiding in the commission of a crime? 😎 BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Noel96 #857504 07/13/25 09:05 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2018 Posts: 448 Arcachon, France TheMaartian Journeyman
TheMaartian Journeyman Joined: Dec 2018 Posts: 448 Arcachon, France	Since no one has yet mentioned the Youlean Loudness Meter, I will. The free version is fully functional. The Pro version adds a ton of useful features, including presets for a lot of different streaming platforms. The YLM is a plugin that you put at the end of your signal chain in BiaB or in your DAW. You can configure the free version for any streaming platforms requirements, or use the simpler Pro version preset. I upgraded to Pro many years ago to support the dev. He has continuously upgraded it (all upgrades are free for life), adding Pro version user requests. Highly recommended. Youlean Loudness Meter Last edited by TheMaartian; 07/13/25 09:08 PM. ThinkPad i9 32GB RAM 7TB SSD; Win11 Pro; RME Fireface UCX II; BiaB 2026 Ultra Bitwig Studio 6; Studio Pro 8; Melodyne Studio 5; Tonalic Studio 1; Acoustica Premium 7 Gig Performer 5; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 & 770

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Andrew Dee #857531 07/14/25 07:27 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 15,963 GA USA Janice & Bud Veteran
Janice & Bud Veteran Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 15,963 GA USA	Originally Posted by Andrew Dee Originally Posted by Janice & Bud My experience has been that 14 LUFS is very quiet for SoudCloud. They are apparently one of the few platforms that make no adjustments to what you upload. I'm a big fan of loundnesspenalty.com - free and no signup required and very fast. It only takes a few seconds to see how and if your song will be altered by the platforms. I use this as a basis for all my mastering. A LOT of the forum songs would require huge changes by the platforms as many are very loud. And the changes made my the platforms can introduce artifacts IMHO. You can check it out here at this safe link. https://www.loudnesspenalty.com Thanks Bud - excuse my questions in ignorance - I've only learned of LUFS existence due to Noel's thread and still learning DAW and mixing stuff as I go. I had wondered why my songs posted had different volumes on different sites. Do you aim for a LUFS target before checking with loudnesspenalty.com, or do you go by experience and feel and then just check it with loudnesspenalty.com before posting? If it's too loud, do you use a limiter on your master track final mix? If you do target LUFS, is it the 'integrated' measure, or do you use short range measure for the peak section of the track? Andrew Firstly I try to adjust my limiter (final fx in my mastering chain) to leave plenty of dynamics including peaks that some folks would squash. We like open/airy mixes irrespective of the genre we are working with. Also we've learned to trust what we hear on our Kali monitors (8" woofer). I'll listen to the mix on the "big" living room system but nearly always go with what we heard on the monitors. And unlike many folks I never mix or master with headphones. I want a sound like I'm sitting in the center of the third row of a live band in a good hall. I then use Logic Pro's Loudness Meter to look at the LUFS. Depending on the tune 10-12 integrated works for us. The 14 thing is not written in stone. And the 10-12 typically results in a file that is little altered by the platforms. Like mixing, mastering is rarely "finished" ... just abandoned. One can parse things out until all the joy is sucked out of the process. You will get many opinions on my process with a lot of folks saying all I typed above is dead wrong. Oh one other thing I forgot. I frequently use a reference song. Meaning I'll listen to a similar tune that I think is well done several times during mixing and mastering. This is to keep the notion in my old brain of how I would like for the production to sound. Works for me. A truckload of FWIWs and YMMV's. Bud Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Matt Finley #857534 07/14/25 07:57 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,971 Sillie Con Valley, California Mike Halloran Expert
Mike Halloran Expert Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,971 Sillie Con Valley, California	Originally Posted by Matt Finley Mike, isn’t that aiding in the commission of a crime? 😎 I am sooooo Not going there (and I could). Quote I frequently use a reference song. Meaning I'll listen to a similar tune that I think is well done several times during mixing and mastering. Always a good idea — so rarely taught. BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Noel96 #857560 07/14/25 10:56 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,449 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,449 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Yes, I think the use of a good reference song was the first rule I learned in the art of mixing. Jim’s tip about the Youlean Loudness Meter is a good one. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms Noel96 #857578 07/14/25 02:51 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Mar 2025 Posts: 942 Adelaide, Sth Aust. Andrew Dee Expert
Andrew Dee Expert Joined: Mar 2025 Posts: 942 Adelaide, Sth Aust.	Thanks Noel for posting this thread! I feel like I’ve taken the ‘red pill’. I have also bookmarked The loudnesspenalty.com site (thanks Bud) and trying out the free version of Youlean plugin (thanks Maartian). Andrew Regards, Andrew D Adelaide, Sth Aust Soundcloud: https://on.soundcloud.com/SQE4btVvNVkLq74e9 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@andrewoftheantipodes

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