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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 445
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 445 |
My focus for this was only the bass separation and to be able to hear the notes played in the bass line clearly, I did not not check any of the other stems. I mainly wanted to show the gaps in the bass stem from SMP for som older recordings.
I got a response from SMP they are aware of the issue and are working for an improvement in a future release (appear for some older mono recordings and in stereo recordings where the bass or drums are panned more severely to one side)
I also use EZBass for creating bass lines, but I have not yet tried it with midi from SMP, I will try that.
What I am trying do now, is to learn to play bass, I like to be able to hear the original bass line played for a song in the mix as well as in isolation and then practice against the mix with the bass line muted.
BIAB 2025, Studio One 7 Pro, Song Master Pro, Win11 Home. i7-9700K CPU, 32GB, ESI MAYA44eX, Guitar Pro 8, Transcribe, (EZKeys2, Superior Drummer3, EZBass, EZMix3)
Amateur: fiddle, guitar, vocal, beginner on bass.
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Joined: Jun 2020
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Joined: Jun 2020
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shlind,
I am doing something similar to you and also seeking to improve my workflow wherever I can.
In my process of learning/interpreting basslines for covers I
1. Listen to the track several times and focus in on the bass to get a feel of what's being played.
2. Then I'll have Studio One display the chords and I'll play along with the track on my bass and experiment with different motifs and complexities. After a few days of this I'll have 2 or 3 candidate/preliminary basslines in my head. Sometimes I'll briefly notate my ideas with pen and paper..
3. In Studio One I'll then create 2 separated stems from the original track; a bass stem (Stem 1) and a stem with everything except the bass (Stem 2).
4. I'll then mute the original track, increase the volume of Stem 1, decrease the volume of Stem 2 and gain a better understanding of what the original bassist is doing in the song. This may result in an additional preliminary bassline or at least some new ideas.
5. I'll then take elements of each of my prelim basslines and combine them into my final interpretation bassline.
6. Next I'll mute the original track and Stem 1 and practice my interpretation against Stem 2. When I feel I'm ready to record, I'll produce my bass overlay interpretation and send to friends for feed back.
My goal is to do this for 100 classic (mainly rock) songs from the 60s/70s and also for 100 contemporary smooth jazz songs. Progress is slow (I record a new song about every month), but I'm growing with each recording I make.
I too have SMP and like it, but the "holy grail" for me would be a program that can decompose and analyze the bassline from any song and produce an accurate bass tab with the option to select 3 options; a beginner tab, a moderately difficult tab and an advanced tab. If I could ask for the moon, 5 tabs in each category would be nice. I've tried messing around with MIDI, Melodyne and importing into GuitarPro but I find too much clean-up is required, resulting in much wasted time. One day someone will configure an AI to do this but by that time I may not even need or want it.
If you'd like to be on my mailing list or just want to share notes at a deeper level, send a PM.
--Steve
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Expert
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Expert
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,547 |
Not 100% sure, but I think SMP BIAB uses a custom version of DEMUCS for stem separation, whereas BIAB uses Zplane's Stems Pro, which I suspect it's a fork from the original, open source project, Spleeter.
Nowadays, there are only a very small handful of stem separation algorithm, and every program on the market offering that feature use one of them (sometimes, a customized version).
The point is that currently, no stem separation model is perfect, all of them depend on the dataset they have been trained with, so, for certain songs one algorithm may work better than other, and viceversa. If you find a song where your preferred program fails to separate the track you need, just try another model, you may be luckier (or not). It's just the way it currently works.
Latest BIAB version, latest build.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Expert
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,547 |
What I am trying do now, is to learn to play bass, I like to be able to hear the original bass line played for a song and then practice against it. I honestly don't think this is helping your learning process, training your ears to hear and identify bass notes and articulations in the context of a mix is an essential aspect of being a proficient bass player. In this sense, stem separation tools are, in my opinion, way more useful for bass students for their ability to remove the original bass line (allowing you to play with the rest of the band) rather than for allowing the isolation of bass tracks.
Latest BIAB version, latest build.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 445
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 445 |
I fully agree, that is what I am doing. I expressed myself a bit unclear.
I mute the bass track and play along with the whole mix excluding (muting) the bass.
I can hear and identify the bass notes and articulations in the context of the whole mix very well, but I also find it a bit easier to also listen to the bass stem in isolation to get familiar and analyze the patterns or rhythm patterns that are used over the chord changes for the song in its original.
I may then try to learn to play it as the original but mostly I start of with a very simple version and build it up from there.
BIAB 2025, Studio One 7 Pro, Song Master Pro, Win11 Home. i7-9700K CPU, 32GB, ESI MAYA44eX, Guitar Pro 8, Transcribe, (EZKeys2, Superior Drummer3, EZBass, EZMix3)
Amateur: fiddle, guitar, vocal, beginner on bass.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,547
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,547 |
Absolutely. I wish these amazing tools had existed 35 years ago 
Latest BIAB version, latest build.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,310 |
Absolutely. I wish these amazing tools had existed 35 years ago Same here. I can't tell you how many vinyl albums I ruined trying to copy the guitar parts. Play a section, pick up the needle, play guitar, then put the needle back down on the record, many times scratching the record so after take after take the record was no longer playable! Darn you Chuck Berry!
I got myself a seniors' GPS. Not only does it tell me how to get to my destination , it tells me why I wanted to go there.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Joined: Jun 2020
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,576 |
No doubt about it. Today's modern computer-based tools make it much easier to learn music. But I have to believe that folks that learned music "the old way" benefited more neurologically because of the mental strain and struggles involved made those synaptic connections good and strong. Nonetheless, I do like my modern music tools in the same way that I like the conveience of a grocery store compared to the chore of harvesting my food every day
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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