Hi folks! I need some very practical help! I am using RealDrum SouthernPopEv^16 01, and mixing it in a project in Reaper. The snare is so loud compared to the rest of the kit. When I aim for a LUFS of between -13 to -14, this snare is a major culprit in clipping. If I reduce the volume, the rest of the kit disappears in the mix. So... I've tried various means to try and tame the snare (see my screen image attached): - Limiter set threshold -12.2 and ceiling -12.3 - but the snare still keeps poking its head through - I'm new to limiting so maybe I am doing something wrong here? I would have thought the limiter would have chopped off the offending snare hits? - Compression ratio of just over 4:1 but a threshold of -36.3 - If I use these settings, the snare still sounds overbearing. - EQ - I've harshly scooped out around 1450hz - but not sure if the snare is made up of multiple frequencies - and therefore I've only scooped one?
Beside the settings, I've applied the FX in the order shown above. Would you have ordered them otherwise?
]Andrew, have noticed the same on many drum tracks. Sometimes the multiband compressor in Studio One does the trick by compressing only the upper frequencies. But usually I'll go back to BiaB and choose a less busy drum track from the same/similar family of RealDrums. The name of the drum track will usually reveal what's going on in the upper frquencies, and most of the time there is a more compliant option.
... But usually I'll go back to BiaB and choose a less busy drum track from the same/similar family of RealDrums…
Thanks Ron - glad I’m not the only one. I think I might search for a different variation. The challenge is helping me increase my understanding of the FX tools, but I’m impatient because I want to get this song done and dusted.
I guess in a real mix, the snare would have its own track and could be tamed without compromising the rest of the kit.
... But usually I'll go back to BiaB and choose a less busy drum track from the same/similar family of RealDrums…
Thanks Ron - glad I’m not the only one. I think I might search for a different variation. The challenge is helping me increase my understanding of the FX tools, but I’m impatient because I want to get this song done and dusted.
I guess in a real mix, the snare would have its own track and could be tamed without compromising the rest of the kit.
Andrew
As Ron mentioned, a multiband compressor is your friend when it comes to taming the snare. If you happen to own Steinberg's SpectraLayers Pro , it's even easier, because SpectraLayers Pro has an excellent drum separation tool.
I typically have the opposite issue with the RD snare not being prominent enough. So I get the RealDrum snare from the BiaB matching kit file and use it to double the snare in my mix. It has taken me years to realize just how loud the snare is in so many of genres we like. The more I used appropriate reference songs when mixing the more I realized how loud the snare typically is. I’ve slowly adapted to this. Not helpful for your question but came to mind. 😀
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+1 same with the kick, in that the snap of the initial impact is fairly prominent in a lot of mixes & samples around 2k seems to help bring out both
We solved this in recording live drums by using two mics on the kick; one at the beater (57/58 type) and a second larger (deeper) one in front (audience side) TBH we find using a 12" subwoofer speaker reverse wired to a preamp and used as the mic gets the deep oomph. It acts as a huge diaphragm to capture the large low frequencies We happen to use a JBL sub that the amp gave out on, which we bypass and wire the speaker directly to the preamp (via XLR) with no power to the sub, of course.
Last edited by rharv; 07/27/2512:31 PM.
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Coming at this from a different angle, there are a few RealDrums that have stems. They load into many tracks and allow you to adjust parts of the drum kit. I didn’t check the drum style you reported, and there aren’t a lot of drums with stems, but it might be worth a look if you can find one that works.
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See if that particular real drum track is available as a real drum multitrack which it looks like it doesn't. Some of the real drums are multitrack so you can load the parts of the kit into different DAW tracks and set the levels as needed. In the real drums menu this ability will be listed in the stems column to the far right side. If it is, that will solve your problem immediately. See DC RON's attached photo and look at the STEMS column. Your chosen style shows no stems..... so maybe find one that works that does have stems.
If it's not a multitrack drum style, a good multiband compressor will help tame it.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 07/28/2508:24 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
A different perspective... If the snare is the ONE thing that is causing clipping - meaning if you remove the snare, the clipping goes away, too - let it (clip) Typically, you won't even know clipping is occurring (since it's the snare). it will not be distorting other stuff (like real clipping does). At most, it will sound like there is a slight saturation on the snare (but I doubt you'll hear that, either).
In this situation, you are reacting to what your software is telling you (that you have clipping). What do your ears tell you? They might tell you....this is something to not worry about Do you HEAR clipping?
In this situation, you are reacting to what your software is telling you (that you have clipping). What do your ears tell you? They might tell you....this is something to not worry about Do you HEAR clipping?
Thank you Floyd! I can see your logic there. I am reacting to Reaper rather than my ears. I’m going to give that a try. Andrew PS In any case, this process has been a good education for me on my DAW journey.
Andrew, you've set up the EQ after the compressor which is usually good but sometimes stuff makes compressors overreact and other stuff. Yes, BIAB drums "stems" may be a way around the problem but there aren't anywhere near enough of them and some have serious problems like o/heads not being in stereo so it's not always the right option. I usually spend most of my time taking the click out of BIAB kicks. Snare usually has to high energy spots - up with the "crack" and down with the meat. If you add another instance of ReaEq, click off all the other FX, and set the EQ to notch or band pass then narrow that you can sweep across the snare as it plays and isolate the two main areas then address the in your main instance of ReaEq. Then remove the sweep iterations. Lastly I'd suggest gently addressing the hot spots before the comp as well...oh & check how things are with the "limit output" bock unclicked in the compressor...you've effectively, two limiters on the drums. I'll check the real drum you're talking about & respond if I find anything useful.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
I'm BAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK... These are the spots where the snare energy is focused on your track: The comp settings you have on your screen are killing the drums like a mover's blanket over the kit. The limiter isn't doing much at all useful to my ears. There are three spots where the energy is focused and I've cut them pretty heavily in the image. I tried a multiband compressor and it wasn't very useful but I only spent five minutes with it. You can play around with those three spots...the lower one has a LOT of energy from the snare body. The upper one has some snap and the middle one has a lot going on as well. I played with ReaFIR to locate and address the hot spots but that had too dramatic an effect on surrounding freqs., even when being surgical. Good luck.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
… You can play around with those three spots...the lower one has a LOT of energy from the snare body. The upper one has some snap and the middle one has a lot going on as well.
Hi Ray! Thanks so much for investigating this. I’ll try those EQ settings tomorrow once my confidence has somewhat returned. This challenge has really got me jumping at (DAW) shadows. Andrew
Add an empty track under the drums. Title it "Snare".
Click the "Toggle Razor Edit" to turn on razor editing.
Click the "Locking" icon to lock items
Right-click the "Locking" item to and make sure "Items (prevent left/right movement)" is selected.
Play through the audio, finding the snares. Right-drag to select the snare with razor edit, and then drag it down into the "Snare" track. Use Ctrl+Left and Ctrl+Right to move through the track.
You can then do whatever processing on the isolated "Snares" track to make it fit.
It's tedious, but really doesn't take that long to do, because you can pretty easily identify the snares by sight, and play the track if you have any doubt.
See the attachments for a screenshot and an animated GIF of selecting and dragging the snares using razor edit.
Add an empty track under the drums. Title it "Snare".
Click the "Toggle Razor Edit" to turn on razor editing.
Click the "Locking" icon to lock items
Right-click the "Locking" item to and make sure "Items (prevent left/right movement)" is selected.
Play through the audio, finding the snares. Right-drag to select the snare with razor edit, and then drag it down into the "Snare" track. Use Ctrl+Left and Ctrl+Right to move through the track.
You can then do whatever processing on the isolated "Snares" track to make it fit.
It's tedious, but really doesn't take that long to do, because you can pretty easily identify the snares by sight, and play the track if you have any doubt.
See the attachments for a screenshot and an animated GIF of selecting and dragging the snares using razor edit.
That is an interesting solution. Yes, I'm absolutely sure it will work and yes, it's tedious.....BUT......I have spent several days just building a drum track for a song.
You also have the ability to copy and paste. SO...... do 4 bars, then listen carefully to the song and the drum track and paste the bars as needed and edit any of the fills. Generally the fills won't have snare in them anyway.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Thanks David - being a Reaper and DAW novice, I’ve seen those feature options and wondered what they could be used for. I’m going to look at that - even if just for educational purposes. I feel like a surgeon… “Scalpel.” Andrew
… You also have the ability to copy and paste. SO...... do 4 bars, then listen carefully to the song and the drum track and paste the bars as needed and edit any of the fills. Generally the fills won't have snare in them anyway.
Thanks Herb! A good suggestion coupled with David’s. I’m interested to see how your drum track creation goes - if/when you post it in a song. Andrew
Add an empty track under the drums. Title it "Snare".
Click the "Toggle Razor Edit" to turn on razor editing.
Click the "Locking" icon to lock items
Right-click the "Locking" item to and make sure "Items (prevent left/right movement)" is selected.
Play through the audio, finding the snares. Right-drag to select the snare with razor edit, and then drag it down into the "Snare" track. Use Ctrl+Left and Ctrl+Right to move through the track.
You can then do whatever processing on the isolated "Snares" track to make it fit. It's tedious, but really doesn't take that long to do, because you can pretty easily identify the snares by sight, and play the track if you have any doubt. See the attachments for a screenshot and an animated GIF of selecting and dragging the snares using razor edit.
I've been there & done that - works a treat, rather like razor edit de-essing BUT is tedious Doing essentially the same process but copying rather than cutting then flipping phase on the copy track might also get decent results.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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