Hi Gang. I am having so much trouble with the stem splitter around one issue. I cannot get the darned first measure bar to be right and also line up with the count in clicks. I have a song imported into the stem splitter via the open special command successfully and split successfully. The music starts on beat 4 as a pickup note and then proceeds from there in the next measure with the 1. I can easily hear where each down beat is. When I click on the first down beat (just past the proceeding 4) and press L to make a measure line all is well. Then I tap out the rest of the song using L on each new down beat. The I adjust any slight errors in the down beat L taps. Then I use the equalize tempo feature and pick my tempo and all is well.
Then when I go to play the results, the count-in click is all over the place and usually the first measure marker is gone.
Questions are whether this device can handle pickup notes and keep the measure lines straight? Can the count in be synced with the file in this situation? There is now way that I know of to indicate where the real first measure line might be since there are three quarter notes of rest before the 4 plays leading into the next measure.
I am so frustrated and have spent hours trying to figure this out. I remember from a post deep in the past that there is some way to indicate where the "first" bar line is by right clicking on the play head line and getting a contextual menu where I can indicate first measure, but I cannot seem to find this functionality anywhere.
Can you help me. I don't understand why this is so hard to do. Thanks so much.
Here's an image that shows the beginning of my waveforms. The two red arrows show where the first two measure lines were that have now disappeared. You can see that there is a beat 4 as a pick up in the first real measure (which is mostly silent) and the first red arrow shows really where the second measure starts in this song.
I can see from your image, that BIAB has added bars -1 and 0 (the count-in bars) and that bar 1 starts where your right arrow is pointing. Without knowing what audio you started with, BIAB has interpreted that the pick-up note and the first bar of your music belongs in the count-in bars. This is why you have lost the bar lines.
My guess is that you have imported your audio using the default settings. If so, these default settings assume that your audio has a 2-bar count-in. If this is the case, it would seem that your audio does not have a 2-bar count-in.
Try this... 1) Kill the audio that you have loaded.
2) Import your audio using the settings that I have indicated on the image below. This will import your audio to chorus 1, bar 2, beat 1 and tick (partial beat) 0.
3) For your first bar line, estimate where beat 1 occurs in the bar that contains the pick-up note. This will set bar 1 as the bar that contains the pick-up note. In BIAB it is often better to put a pickup note at the end of the first bar rather than at the end of the last bar of the count-in.
4) Have a read through my instructions on how to locate the timing of bars in the pdf at the below link. This will help explain how BIAB's automatic 2-bar count-in works.
Noel !!!! Thank you so much for coming to my rescue and so quickly. I so appreciate you and your input. I am going to study your recommendations very carefully and hopefully conquer this impasse. I so want to use this feature powerfully, frequently and with ease. I have just tons of use for it. Thank you again. I will retry and let you know how it goes.
Never seen that Import audio dialog box before. Great. I'll find it.
I will read your PDF now with the question in my mind as to how to set that first bar line. Will it simply be to click on the area and Press L or some other first bar line specific command. Just thinking out loud here and diving into the PDF right now.
So Noel, I have read everything and it is so generous of you to have made this. Since your post and the PDF do not mention anything about the splitter, can I assume that I should import the song just as it is (not split) and go through your suggested steps and THEN when it is all set, use the splitter to get the stems separated? If so, how does one split an already imported, adjusted, bar lined, chord analyzed song? Is there a command to do that process after all of this work to get the song all mapped out?
I haven't really played around a great deal with the splitter. When I did give it a test run earlier in the year, I began the process by using the Audio Chord Wizard (which is what my PDF covers). Working with ACW first gets the audio file set up, organised and ready to go. After that was done, I used the "Open Stem Splitter" command that is located under the "Audio" menu (found at the top of the program).
This process worked for me. I didn't use the "Import Audio File To Separate Tracks Using Stem Splitter" which is also under the "Audio" menu.
I hope this information helps. I've got my fingers crossed that @Charlie Fogle will read your post and offer his thoughts. He is much more expert at working with Stem Splitter than I am.
I'm a long time user and here's what I have discovered to make it work right. The photo you posted looks like the ACW...Automatic Chord Wizard. I've not had problems with the stem splitter but the ACW has been a source of endless frustration and with you saying trying to get it to line up makes me think you're talking about the ACW more so than the stem splitter.
Be sure to set the tempo to 120. You can worry about the actual tempo later. Be sure to set the END or last measure to 120. It starts defaulted at 32 and will stop at that measure. Set it to 120.
I do this the old school way. I listen to the song while looking at the first couple of measures. I guestimate where the first beat of 1 occurs and insert a line there. Often, I'm working with songs that have pickup notes. So it doesn't necessarily equate to the first wave form start being the ONE beat in the song. Move the cursor to where you know the actual ONE beat first occurs. You can zoom in and edit/drag that first Bar Line to get it exactly on the ONE. Add bar line (L) I then simply start the song playback and tap the "L" key on the first beat of each measure. Once you have all the lines in place you will see what tempo they are. ACW will display the exact tempo in each measure that it has detected. If, for example it is 92 point something..... Now go to the far right to Equalize Tempo, input the tempo of 92, and let it do it's thing. You now have a project that's lined up and will play in time with the BB style at exactly 92 BPM.
Splitting out the stems at this point is a simple matter of going through the steps in the menus. I'm not at the DAW right now but I think it's two or three steps max to get the stems in the utility tracks. You can do the stem splitting before or after running the ACW which I have found to be a confusing process until I figured it out.
Hope this helps.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Noel96 makes wonderful points in the posts earlier in this thread about how to get those pickup notes properly put into the BIAB chordshet measure structure and not conflict with the count-in.
You are so right about having to put in a huge number of bars and I have been tripped up by that 32 bar restriction several times until I figured it out just this last time!
Good point at setting the tempo to 120 and then changing it appropriately (I have done it with the equalize tempo button).
Yes, indeed I do the measure lines manually for all the downbeats by pressing the L key repeatedly throughout the whole song. That works really well and then I make micro adjustments if I have made small errors.
Noel96 made the important point of adding a safety bar line at the very beginning of the silent period at the beginning of the imported audio to "protect" this area from BIAB chopping off some audio information if it screws up the count-in. See his link to the PDF he has made on this process in his comments earlier in this post.
Yes I have now realized that I can do the splitting after the adjustments in ACW which I greatly prefer now.
I an just now in communication with PG about what proper destination to choose in the splitter drop down menu for destination. It appears that if one chooses "Audio", the stems will start populating there and below and the imported audio track will be ERASED. If one wants to keep the original audio, one should choose "Utility #1" to start the populating of the stems. Clearly this is what I am going to do.
I am just now in communication with PG about what proper destination to choose in the splitter drop down menu for destination. It appears that if one chooses "Audio", the stems will start populating there and below and the imported audio track will be ERASED. If one wants to keep the original audio, one should choose "Utility #1" to start the populating of the stems. Clearly this is what I am going to do.
Hi Moonbeam,
Thank you for posting this information from PG Music. It helps to give me some added insight into stem splitting.
I'm glad that everything is working out for you. When I read you post, you really sound like you have won the battle you were having with ACW and Stem Splitting
< Move the cursor to where you know the actual ONE beat first occurs. You can zoom in and edit/drag that first Bar Line to get it exactly on the ONE. >
All of the information and instructions are spot on. I haven't seen it mentioned, but using this information above from Guitarhacker, BIAB has a feature where all of the instructions above can be bypassed and bar 1 set, the audio moved and the audio file ready for the ACW analysis with a single click.
Although it's not necessary to accomplish setting Bar 1 by initially turning the ACW off, I recommend to turn it off for this step. This menu selection is only available with the ACW turned off. Since you've encountered issues setting the first bar with the ACW on and hitting -L-, this method makes accurately setting Bar 1 easier.
Turning the ACW off, converts the window view to the Audio Edit Window. (Clicking the ACW button toggles the ACW on and off )
Set Bar 1 like Guitarhacker states above and right click anywhere on the screen and select the 'Set this point...' option and the curser line will be set by the program as the first bar. Then turn the ACW on and proceed normally.
Here's a tip to help with setting the Bar Lines. It's faster and easier to create the Tempo Map using the Auto Marking Button feature. Manually mark the first four or five bars. Accurately set these bars and ensure the tempo of each bar is similar. There should not be a large variance of tempo between bars in most normal songs. ie: 157.540 - 158.234 would be reasonable. 157.540 - 185.670 is likely wrong. With the first bars edited then select the Auto Mark Button and edit them as there will be variations in the tempo. Every 8-10 bars I recommend converting an Auto Line into a Manual Line because this sections the bars into smaller segments affected by edits. Done accurately, oftentimes it's unnecessary to equalize the tempo.
Here's a tip to help with setting the Bar Lines. It's faster and easier to create the Tempo Map using the Auto Marking Button feature. Manually mark the first four or five bars. Accurately set these bars and ensure the tempo of each bar is similar. There should not be a large variance of tempo between bars in most normal songs. ie: 157.540 - 158.234 would be reasonable. 157.540 - 185.670 is likely wrong. With the first bars edited then select the Auto Mark Button and edit them as there will be variations in the tempo. Every 8-10 bars I recommend converting an Auto Line into a Manual Line because this sections the bars into smaller segments affected by edits. Done accurately, oftentimes it's unnecessary to equalize the tempo.
Interesting alternative. But I am a doubting Thomas about the function's ability to be accurate or for me to recognize that the mark on the waveform might be off from where the beat isn't really there, perhaps falling on another non-beat transient. So I have opted to tap out the beat with the L key for the whole song which actually is kinda fun like drumming. That way I am sure I am in the ballpark with every beat considering my novice waveform reading skills. But I really appreciate your adding your method to flesh out the available options!
< Move the cursor to where you know the actual ONE beat first occurs. You can zoom in and edit/drag that first Bar Line to get it exactly on the ONE. >
All of the information and instructions are spot on. I haven't seen it mentioned, but using this information above from Guitarhacker, BIAB has a feature where all of the instructions above can be bypassed and bar 1 set, the audio moved and the audio file ready for the ACW analysis with a single click.
Although it's not necessary to accomplish setting Bar 1 by initially turning the ACW off, I recommend to turn it off for this step. This menu selection is only available with the ACW turned off. Since you've encountered issues setting the first bar with the ACW on and hitting -L-, this method makes accurately setting Bar 1 easier.
Turning the ACW off, converts the window view to the Audio Edit Window. (Clicking the ACW button toggles the ACW on and off )
Set Bar 1 like Guitarhacker states above and right click anywhere on the screen and select the 'Set this point...' option and the curser line will be set by the program as the first bar. Then turn the ACW on and proceed normally.
Dang, I knew somebody had told me in the past about where that darn "set as first measure" command was hiding. Thanks for the distinction about the ACW button being on or off.
With this method I would still think that protecting the lead in silence as Noel96 suggests would be critical when dealing with a song that has a pickup note and you want that pickup measure to not overlap the BIAB 2 measure count-in
How much time, effort and frustration have not a thing like this caused, not to mention all the other users with the same experience.
This to compare with the simplicity for the same type of task in other more user friendly platforms such as: SongMasterPro - only to drop the audio and the time mapping is done - one click and the stem separation is done, and StudioOne Pro 7 – one click and the time map is done and - one click and the stem separation is done.
I really hope the next release of BIAB will be a big improvement in this area with a modern user friendly GUI
BIAB 2025, Studio One 7 Pro, Song Master Pro, Win11 Home. i7-9700K CPU, 32GB, ESI MAYA44eX, Guitar Pro 8, Transcribe, (EZKeys2, EZD3, SD3, EZBass, EZMix3) Amateur: fiddle, guitar, vocal, beginner on bass.
< With this method I would still think that protecting the lead in silence as Noel96 suggests would be critical when dealing with a song that has a pickup note and you want that pickup measure to not overlap the BIAB 2 measure count-in >
It can be done either way. Dependent to the conditions or circumstances of the project purpose.
< But I am a doubting Thomas about the function's ability to be accurate or for me to recognize that the mark on the waveform might be off from where the beat isn't really there, perhaps falling on another non-beat transient. >
The ACW is accurate. No doubt there.
Practice will improve your skills using it. You're correct. Rely on your ears as much as a waveform and review the bar marker placement while watching the black measure curser in the Chord Chart. It can be more accurate and sound better for the BIAB instruments than only following the waveform. BIAB instruments can sound quantized with the beats and not sync correctly with a live recording that wasn't recorded to a click track.
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