I am having great success inporting audio files of fully recorded songs then aligning, tempo fixing etc and then after that is all done, using the stem splitter to get the different stems. But when I look in the folder I have made for the project I am a bit confused in that I have too many files (perhaps). Again my work flow is to first bring in the un-split audio file using the import audio dialog box and get the song fully manipulated and then do the splits.
1st step (I have set up the placement numbers as needed, this image is just an example)
I then do my manipulations and then invoke the splitter:
It all works just great, but what surprises me is that now in my folder there exists the original imported MP3 file and BIAB Song file as expected, But TWO sets of stems. One set is labelled with the stem descriptive names which is great, but there is another set that are labelled .wav files #2-6. If I remove these files from the folder, the BIAB song file will no longer play. If I remove the stem labelled files, the BIAB song file plays just fine.
I am confused by this file behavior and why 2 sets are generated. Can you shine the light for me?
It looks like BIAB has first created the files (the lower set) and then it has made copies of those files to load on the Utility tracks. This may well be expected behaviour because if a person deletes the audio files on the Utility tracks, the original split stems are preserved. As such, this would be a safety precaution. That said, I'll report this to the developers in case it is not standard behaviour.
In the meantime... whenever I look at files in folders, I always have Windows Explorer set to "Details" view (#1 and #2 on the images below). I then click on the header for the "Modified" column (#3) so that the files are sorted in descending order of their modification date and time. This makes it very easy to see which files are older and no longer needed. Note... the column headers are a toggle between sorting in descending order and ascending order.
<< It looks like BIAB has first created the files (the lower set) and then it has made copies of those files to load on the Utility tracks. >>
Noel is correct. To not create the copies, Unclick 'Preserve WAV files' button in the Stems Splitter.
Another tip is it's an unnecessary step to import the audio file first when opening a new project. Type - stems - into any bar/measure box. Then use the Stems Splitter Choose button to select and load the audio file. This initiates the import and allows the user to set all of the Stems Splitter settings. When the stems import is complete, select the ACW button to open the Audio Track (Stems Master Track) to analyze the audio file and sync it to the BIAB Mixer. The Master Track is automatically muted and the Styles are disabled so you will hear the stems but the Stems Splitter will analyze the stereo Master.
Charlie, thank you for your response. I have now done 6 tests with different iterations of check boxes and have discovered very unusual saving behavior depending on what is checked. I would like to document these and explain my reasoning. Should I do that here or start a new thread? I will pose the same question to Noel. Thanks.
Noel, thank you for your response. I have now done 6 tests with different iterations of check boxes and have discovered very unusual saving behavior depending on what is checked. I would like to document these and explain my reasoning. Should I do that here or start a new thread? I will pose the same question to Charlie. Thanks.
I think that this is a great place to post the results of your research. It would definitely help anyone else who reads this thread. It's all related to your original topic.
Thanks. I will do this tomorrow. I did every combination in the stem splitter dialog box and the behavior was really surprising and weird. Probably lots of bugs in the program, but I will lay it all out in my next entry in this thread. At least now I finally know what to do to not get duplicate files.
EXPERIMENT IN STEM SPLITTING ON AN ALREADY IMPORTED AND OPTIMIZED AUDIO TRACK
Introduction:
Because of odd behavior in saving files when using the stem splitter on an already imported and optimized audio track, I ran several experiement to test what actually happens when you use the stem splitter dialog box. PGM videos state some suggestions, forum users state others, and PGM chat support states others. The main confusion revolves around two issues. One is the meaning of and use of the "Destination track (first)" check box. The second is the use of the "Preserve WAV files"check box. One alarming thing to me was that PGM chat told me that if I had the destination track (first) chosen as "Audio", my imported audio track would be erased which was very alarming. (spoiler alert: at least with this work flow, that comment was incorrect)
Method:
I imported an audio track according to the recommendations of Noel96 by using the import audio track menu choice. The advantage to doing this specifically is that it gives one access to the "Import Audio File" dialog box (not available elsewhere) that allows one to set the bars precisely in the location chosen so that the BIAB 2 bar count in and any first bar of the song that is "incomplete" with a pick up, in the proper locations so that optimizing the track in ACW goes smoothly and one can make a perfect first bar for the pickup bar and still mesh perfectly with the 2 bar count in. This has worked really well for me to have precise control.
So my method is to first import as above, optimize bar lines, equalize tempo and often do chord analysis. After that I approach splitting if needed. I know you can do the import and the ACW functions all in one with the stem splitter dialog, but it lacks the previously mentioned bar placement which is so useful.
Experiment:
I did four iterations of splitting with combinations of the "Destination track (first)" check box on or off, and the "Preserve WAV files" on or off and then looked at what type of file saving was done to my song folder. The results were surprising to me and may represent bugs, but at least we now have an answer to the original question as to why the saving behavior was strange.
Here is the stem splitter dialog box with arrows pointing to the check boxes in question.
and showing the Utility Track #1 option in the drop down menu.
Results:
Audio Destination, Save Wav ON
Five WAV files labeled with same prefix and as #1 #2 #3 #4 #5. No names on the instruments
Audio Destination, Save WAV OFF
Five WAV files labeled with same prefix and as #1 #2 #3 #4 #5. No names on the instruments
Utility #1 Destination, Save WAV ON
Five WAV files labeled with same prefix and as #2 #3 #4 #5 #6. and Utility Track #1 mixer slot being empty. No names on the instruments on these files PLUS Five WAV files now labelled with the instrument names Bass, Drums, Other, Residuals, Vocals but no number symbols.
Utility #1 Destination, Save WAV OFF
Five WAV files labeled with same prefix and as #2 #3 #4 #5 #6. and Utility Track mixer #1 slot being empty. No names on the instruments on these files.
Conclusion and Comments:
The Save WAV check box appears to give equal results whether ON or OFF except the odd case where one has Destination Utility Track #1 and Save WAV ON. Then you get double tracks saved with one set being labelled with instruments.
In this case the instrument labelled tracks have no function in BIAB itself. Only the numbered WAV files are critical for preservation of the stems in a BIAB song.
If you choose Utility #1 as he destination for some reason the stems start populating at Utility Track #2 in the mixer and Utility track #1 stays empty.
The advice I was given on PG chat that if you choose Destination "Audio" that you audio will be erased is incorrect and the stems actually start populating beginning with Utility Track #1
This strikes me as very odd behavior
Final Choice of Use:
I will continue to use the Import Audio first step due to the usefulness of the bar setting dialog box (I realized others may choose differently)
When splitting my optimized audio tracks I will choose the "Destination track (first)" as AUDIO and forget about the "Preserve WAV files"check box.
I would love for the saved WAV files in the song folder to be labelled with the instrument names, but in the one very odd situation when that happens, those files are not functional files in BIAB and just a second copy labelled differently perhaps to be used outside of BIAB, but of course all these WAV file are very large and keeping them seems pointless to me.
Hopefully this experiment may be useful to others or explain wacky results that seem inconsistent or not understandable.
< Very odd behavior and I suspect buggy programming >
I repeated your experiment and examined the project folder and there's no bugs or odd behavior. There's an explanation for the wacky results that seem inconsistent or not understandable. I'll post some screenshots to help explain and also make some suggestions that differ a bit from your workflow and the reasoning for these suggestions.
First. The import audio function predates the Stems Splitter feature and the BIAB program has use for both functions. They have different processes and use from each other.
Only the Audio Channel has unique capability for audio. Meaning, BIAB exclusively uses the Audio Channel with the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW). The Stems Splitter also exclusively uses the Audio Channel with the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW). Selecting any track other than the Audio Track and activating the Audio Chord Wizard and the screen will jump to the Audio Track.
The bottom line, to use the ACW with the Stems Splitter, the audio has to be loaded or copied onto the Audio Channel. This is the default for the Stems Splitter and the ACW.
The second factor that can be confusing is how the audio stems integrate with the BIAB program. Orange audio tracks are proprietary to the BIAB flagship program. These are called Artist Performance Files. They have multiple purposes and functions with both editing, residing on Mixer tracks other than the Audio Channel, and with the Stems Splitter. When using the Stems Splitter, the stems are both split and processed by the Stems Splitter so they can reside as audio on the 23 other tracks of the BIAB Mixer.
As you found, the named instrument tracks are the backup tracks and the numbered tracks are the Utility Tracks used by the Stems Splitter.
My suggestion is to use the default settings of the Stems Splitter in order to always have consistent and predictable results. Importing to the audio track is intended more for projects that utilize audio but it's not necessary for the Stems Splitter.
Wow! What a terrific study. Are you a science teacher or a scientist? Your experiment is very well presented and highly methodical. I'm an ex-chemistry and physics teacher and I sincerely admire your layout and presentation
I'm like you. I prefer to use the 'import audio' option because I am familiar it and I know that it does what I need it to do. That's important to me.
To me, it seems that you have identified a couple of limitations of using the stem splitter. When saving to the Utility tracks, the fact that the tracks are not identified in the name is one of those limitations. For example, I'm not sure why the names on the Utility track aren't "song_name_bass #2", "song_name_drums #3", etc. The #1, #2, #3, etc are necessary because they are identifiers that load the audio file on the relevant utility track. Admittedly, it's easy enough to identify which track is which simply by playing it, but I'm surprised that the additional information in the name isn't there as a visual guide.
The second limitation that you've identified is the saving behaviour when you use Audio as the destination as opposed to Utility #1. The only thing I can think of is that the saving destination seems to be related to the original audio file. When "Audio" is chosen as the destination, the original audio stays on the Audio track (which makes sense because that is where it was imported to). On the other hand, when Utility #1 is chosen as the destination track, the program assumes that the original audio has been imported to Utility #1.
I have passed a link to your experiment on to the the developers in case the insight is useful to them
You've done a really great job! I'm very impressed. --Noel
P.S. With BIAB, the program often has a number of ways to do the same thing. I have discovered that when you find a method that works for you and makes sense to you, there is no reason to change it.
Thanks for that fabulous feedback and of course the compliments. Yep, science guy here - LOL. We would have a great time over a cuppa coffee! Thanks for your comments and sending my observation onto the PG gods. You are the one who has actually gotten me into a work flow that seems to be able to handle any song now especially in light of the oddities of setting the first bar line for several different types of songs. This is why the import audio dialog box was such a revelation to me and solved the problem of optimizing songs that had pickup notes and how to mesh that "partial" bar with the BIAB two bar count in. Yes, indeed, I am now finalizing my notes on my work flow so I never forget again. Complicated stuff, but so very cool when it works. Currently I am using BIAB to optimize and analyze pop songs I love, split the stems and use the stems to transcribe parts. I am doing chordal analysis in BIAB on the chord chart and my note transcription in Guitar Pro 8 which also now allows importation of an optimized track or stem as well with all the excellent transcription tools in both standard and TAB notation (I play guitar and bass). Awesome combo for all of this type of work. Thanks again for all you generous support!
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