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Amazing, BD!! Vocals, drums, the whole avalanche of sound just slayed me! Six plus minutes went by like nothing. This couldn't be better. Way to go! Thanks Rob! And double thanks for the feedback that the length isn't as big a problem as I had feared ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/images/icons/default/thumbs_up.gif)
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Brian, this is epic! What an outstanding song that was well constructed, orchestrated, and mix.
The use of Suno is the red flag for some. However you did use BiaB RTs in your song: "The guitars 650 and 1000 (simple power chords) play in the first and last choruses, but of course they are barely audible alongside all the other instruments. Guitar 4213 is the short guitar solo at around 5:06 (the solo was originally way longer, but it distracted from the "dying" vocals, so it was drastically shortened)."
IMHO that is no different than me using a track or two in a song while everything else is MIDI: I know I play me parts but that is not what this is about, it is about using only one or some BiaB RTS/RDs/ MIDI. Some only use a drum track, as I also have done. Thus since you did use BiaB in your song it is a legal post.
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Angry pretty metal.
Cool stuff..well done.
6 minutes is nothing compared to what I'll drop in a day or two - & I don't have the dynamics you employ.
A.I.? I'm not interested in using it, (at least at present while I can di what I can & Midi/BIAB can fill the gaps - but I'm getting older), but I can see it's point & purpose for those who can't play etc. in much the same way as BIAB is a reasonable substitute.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Yep, I saw that bus coming a mile away ---you know, the one you threw me under. Fortunately it was a double-decker with big wheels that provided plenty of clearance. Yeah, I read ya the rules, and said, "Do it, Brain," not like a kid who wanted to get someone in trouble with the principal, but because I couldn't wait to hear how our forum friends would react to this incredible song.
Right from the first time I heard this one growing into the wonderful unique piece you created, Brain, I was floored with the quality of production and mix. Brilliant throughout.
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BD - that was/is epic and sounds professional! The style and vocal reminded me of an Aussie artist - Delta Goodrem.
Excellent arranging and production, and change in dynamics in the song.
As for your AI and Showcase questions, you say you are using 3 BIAB tracks, so that satisfies the guidelines from my reading - they say to indicate which tracks you used and which are your own. I think as long as you meet the BIAB content and are transparent about other sources, that should be okay?
One thing I would like to see more of in the Showcase is examples of how the song originated in BIAB and what it became after production. I would think some songs would be very close to their origins, while others would illustrate how they morphed through production - not saying one is better than the other - just showing how BIAB was used in the initial writing and inspiration.
Anyway, this was a great final result on your part!
Andrew Thank you, Andrew, for your great feedback on the song and the questions I asked. I actually considered posting a video about my workflow once, but after watching and thinking about Floyd's "The Birth of a Song" (highly recommended), I realized it's a lot more work than it looks.
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Hi BD.
This is incredibly impressive! Your music and its production are extraordinary: professional through and through. Like others above me, the 6 minutes of listening flew by. I was so caught up in the music and the lyrics that I forgot to pay attention to the video. "Absolutely brilliant" kept appearing in my mind as I listened. I loved it. And your rhyme scheme is a superb fit for the nature of the lyrics and the music. None of the words stood out as obtrusive or chosen simply because it 'rhymed'. The flow of the lyrics was perfect.
I agree with Marty. He was spot on in encouraging you to post this. I would have hated to have missed out on hearing it!
For what it's worth, the opening line of PG Music's User Showcase guidelines says, "The User Showcase is an area where users of PG Music products (e.g. Band-in-a-Box or RealBand) can post links to their original song compositions, for others to listen to and comment on."
There is no requirement that you have use Realtracks, Realdrums, MIDISupertracks, etc. If you've used any PG Music product at any point in the creation of a song, it deserves to be on this forum. For example: PG Music's Powertracks Pro Audio and Realband are DAWs, and it's possible to create songs in them entirely from material obtained either live or AI or purchased samples, etc. Such songs are just as eligible to be showcased on this forum as anything that was generated in BIAB.
--Noel Thank you very much for your really nice review, Noel, especially on the lyrics and the rhyme scheme. Like you, I've also come to the conclusion that it is technically okay to post such a song, but I would also like to know what the general opinion is on such songs. I don't want to post songs that are unwelcome. At least not too often 
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The Good: You certainly nailed the drama that was Amy Winehouse. I enjoyed it for being an unsingable, multi-layered, complex AI-driven song with one dramatic shift after another. The sound is incredible.
The Bad: Does it belong here? I don't know. I kinda like the fact that the forum is about BIAB-made tunes and wouldn't want to see it turn into something else. But that said, it's unlikely to ever happen and besides, everyone can choose to listen to a song or not.
The Ugly: This isn't so much ugly as simply my humble opinion and personal taste (and only since you asked). I'm not surprised that you felt exhausted after mixing this. I'm exhausted after listening to it! I enjoyed my listen but I wouldn't be inclined to repeat listening. I find it over-the-top. That said, I can see a huge audience for it. Thank you, Beth, for listening and for your detailed thoughts, especially for your openness about what you felt when listening to the song. I completely understand that the roller coaster arrangement I have chosen is not to everyone's taste. That's perfectly fine with me 
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B.D.Thomas,
What a production! Pro sounds all the way around on this haunting beautiful piece!
The orchestral backing really elevates this to a very high level!
This is very good stuff!
Thanks, TB Thanks, Torrey, for listening to the whole shebang and for your nice comment. Much appreciated
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BDT - you're the master of epic and huge productions, no idea how you manage
to achieve such a massive sound and complex mix!
I'm bound to say it's not my kinda music, but like Beth wrote I can see a huge audience
for it - you're a very clever musician and producer, very well done indeed!!
Carl Thank you, Carl, for your really nice and encouraging words. Made my day
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Wow! a masterpiece for sure! the vocal is haunting and the track is awesome in every regard...how you managed Suno to pull that out of its hat is amazing...breathtaking!
www.soundclick.com/firesongBiaB 2024, Steinberg Cubase Pro 13, Wavelab 11.2, SpetraLayers Pro 10, Audacity, Steinberg UR44 Interface, Yamaha Genos, Roland FP60 and FP10, Windows 10 You are who you are because you do what you do because of what you believe.
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“goes against all current trends” Thank you. That can often be a lot of fun. The great dynamics throughout are amazing. And SUNO Bella certainly delivered the anthemic vibe. This is a BIG production that is very engaging and the quality is on par with that of Bohemian Rhapsody. Amy W. was such a tragic figure and thank you for using her as an inspiration for your production. Cool supporting vid also. We put a lot of effort into our simple productions and it's hard to even imagine the thought and mix time that went into this. But all that work yielded a big payoff indeed with a stadium filling production! J&B PS Regarding the forum appropriateness we think the amount of positive attention it has gained and the quality of the production would be considered by PG Music to be an asset. FWIW.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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BD,
A very complex and multi-faceted song. There have been several excellent analogies in previous comments, and all the wonderful highlights have been addressed. I'm not sure what I can add to all of that. I have a lot of respect and admiration for the production details, energy, and passion you bring to your music. It transfers quickly to the listener. As many people have already said, the excellence of the song negates any considerations of its length. The tension and release is everywhere - and that's one of the best characteristics a song can have.
And the amount of time and effort you must have devoted to the mixing shines through. In the right hands, this could be a huge hit. And that's no exaggeration.
As far as whether it belongs on the forum - I say there is no doubt it belongs here. You mention in a reply that a couple of the BIAB guitar tracks are buried in the mix. I agree. I often mention in my replies and original description at the time I post it that the listener will barely be able to hear a track or two as they are deep in the mix. Although they are barely audible, removing them can change the whole complexion of the song. They fill in where the sound space might otherwise be empty, which can lose the impact of the entire piece of work.
I have added but one BIAB RT or drum track to some the many songs Di and I created in a different program - in order to meet the spirit of the forum's guidelines. Sometimes it's as simple as a wood block or a Hi Hat.
Your music is always near perfect and is always a great listen.
Keep posting and I'll keep listening.
As far as AI use, I accept that it's here, it's going to get used more frequently, and it's going to get better with its capabilities. It's my thought that in the not-too-distant future, those to refuse to use are going to get left behind. I'm not fond of that prediction, but the truth will find its way and believe AI's future influence - possibly necessity to be relevant - will be the new truth before we know it. As a music cr4eator, I don't like that thought, but we will have to accept that it's going to be a huge influence on future music creation, even in the major studio recording studios in Nashville, Atlanta, New York, and LA. Even more important than the musical influence it will surely have, I fear what it is going to do to mankind in general. I fear it will become a huge and malignant dark shadow over all our lives as many bad actors will use it to invade our lives in so many ugly ways.
OK - done with all of that.
Your music is nearly unblemished and such a joy to listen to.
Best to you.
Alan
PS: the only recommendation i would make is I think the bass could be louder as, in my opinion, that help to drive dark side of the story.
Last edited by Al-David; 09/10/25 01:32 AM.
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Absolutely amazing! This deserves to be picked up and recorded by a performing artist. Such a great subject matter and arrangement even if it is BIAB and AI vocal. I wouldn’t worry about how you’ve created it using BIAB and AI, the fact that you’ve written, arranged and produced an outstanding song, highlights your talent in those areas. Should it be compared side by side with a regular song? So long as you’re open about the methods used to produce it then I don’t have any problem with that. I doubt I’ll ever be able to produce anything like this before I snuff it, but the hope that I may one day, keeps me at it.
Bravo! Thank you, Knee Wobbler, for your nice comment and your thoughts on this topic. Much appreciated
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B.D.,
Great! So professional!
First of all, the vocal expressiveness is absolutely amazing.
If this is the power of Suno, then I think that myself and the other people on this forum need to get serious about Suno.
However, I don't want to rely everything on Suno.
Depending on the style of the song, BIAB may be better.
So it really depends on the case.
Enjoyed my listen and watch a lot.
Best regards.
Shigeki Adachi
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You totally blew me away with this, Brain! Just an amazing piece of music, six minutes well spent As far as posting in here goes, it fits the guidelines so why not? Wonderful in every way, well done! Thanks, Dave, for your nice comments both here and on YouTube. Highly appreciated
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I am for almost anything that goes against all current trends. The song is majestically stirring. I'm amazed (and somewhat troubled by) at how authentic the Suno AI vocal sounds. Never would I have discerned that it wasn't sounds human. Here comes Skynet  . Seriously, the song and production is fantastic. Now worries about the length. It sustains interest throughout.
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Nicely impressive.
Yeah, that's a monster of a song and excellent production.
Regarding the use of BB tracks.... It says " The User Showcase is an area where users of PG Music products (e.g. Band-in-a-Box or RealBand) can post links to their original song compositions, for others to listen to and comment on." So, a reading of that would qualify you to post something that contains no tracks from BB since you are a "user" of the PG products. I hesitate to post anything that doesn't have any BB tracks but in my eyes, using just one track qualifies your song for inclusion in the showcase. I've seen songs in here with zero BB tracks but the individual is a user here (obviously) and used Powertracks to record it.
That long song zipped by. It's that good. But you are correct.... it's not a radio edit. Still, very nice work. Thanks, Herb, for your nice feedback and your thoughts on my question. 'Zipped by' - LOVE that phrase
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Truly an epic masterpiece.
The sound literally blows you out of the room.
The vocals are stunning.
It's incredibly good.
However, the question remains:
How much of this mix is really YOUR song?
I believe that anyone who works with Suno or similar AI loses control over the song.
You can't compare that to BiaB, because with BiaB you retain control.
But that's just my opinion.
In any case, it's a TOP song.
Andi ;-)
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BD,
Absolutely stunning work here . . . as professional sounding a track as I’ve ever heard in this forum. Just masterful!
I think as long as you use at least one BBI track, you are good to go with posting. You’re there times that here, so no worries whatsoever.
Deej
P.S. Thanks for your kind feedback on the Deej/ray collaboration "Walking on Water". I didn't want to bump the song up, but wanted to acknowledge your comments. Much appreciated! Thank you, Deej, for listening and your really kind words. Much appreciated!
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