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Re: Building a music production PC that will last 10 years QuestionAsker #859109 08/03/25 02:19 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Feb 2023 Posts: 39 Q QuestionAsker OP Enthusiast
OP QuestionAsker Enthusiast Q Joined: Feb 2023 Posts: 39	Thanks guys for the suggestions and ideas. I was debating between Windows 10 LTSC 2021 IoT (lightweight Windows version supported until 2032) and Windows 11 LTSC (supported 2035+ I think... but has "Recall" and more telemetry and bloatware etc. Seems like another Windows Vista or Windows 8 - not my cup of tea). I think I'll go with Windows 10 LTSC 2021 IoT - less bloat, more stable... won't unlock the best hardware features for "modern" computer builds - but I hear in various aspects Win 10 LTSC is actually faster than 11.

Re: Building a music production PC that will last 10 years QuestionAsker #862072 09/09/25 11:33 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2020 Posts: 2,727 Victoria, BC Simon - PG Music Product Manager
Simon - PG Music Product Manager Joined: May 2020 Posts: 2,727 Victoria, BC	Originally Posted by QuestionAsker Hackintosh.... What PC Will Be Used For • Music Production (Ableton): Using both VSTs and recording live instruments. • Work / Productivity: CAD + lots of Brave browser tabs open across 2-3 windows, random programs, etc • Light gaming: Not really important, but sometimes I do like to try out flight simulators sometimes, etc, just for fun. I don’t really game but would be cool to have the option from time to time. Budget • ~$2000, though I can try to increase if need be. I’m located in the U.S. With a budget of $2000, why not buy an actual Mac? I'm using a 2020 Mini M1 (16gb ram and 1tb SSD) for music production and it's MUCH faster than the i9 Hackintosh it replaced, even with 1/4 the memory (ARM is generally more efficient than x86 in terms of memory usage). I literally never hear the fan on it, and it's able to handle Logic projects with 200+ tracks. You can probably get an M4 Mac Mini with the specs you need under budget. Originally Posted by QuestionAsker Parts List So Far • CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 9950x – (I hear for Ableton this is a good choice) • CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 – (to keep noise levels down) I'd go with water cooling on a Ryzen 9. The aforementioned i9 rig used a D15 on a 9900K, and it actually was not enough to keep cool - temps would still spike to the point of throttling (over 90ºc and even hitting 100º), and believe me the D15 had the ability to get quite loud when the system was under load. The 9900K is a 95-watt chip vs the 9950X is 170-watt... Now compare that to my previous rig which was an i7 4930K (a 130-watt chip), and the smallest 120mm radiator with a single fan was enough to keep it below 65ºc even running torture tests. I would also suggest maybe looking at the "X3D" Ryzen chips, as the extra cache would be helpful for DAWs. Originally Posted by QuestionAsker [b]• Case – (wondering which will be quietest, while allowing for high airflow?) • GPU – (I know GPUs are crazy expensive now. But looking for something somewhat decent for light gaming, and quiet as well) • RAM (128gb) – (which brand will be best? Also – 2 x 64gb?, Or 4 x 32gb?) • Hard Drives Fractal Design "Define" cases are somewhat of the gold standard for audio engineering use. GPU - if you can get a fanless one that'll be quietest. Otherwise anything - most GPU's these days will completely shut off the fans if they're not needed. RAM - 2x64 allows you to upgrade later without having to replace parts. Hard drives - don't bother, stick with SSD. You're not gonna need the fastest one ever, even for gaming - I recently upgraded mine in my gaming machine, and yeah sure the new 4tb can theoretically transfer about 4x faster than the 2tb it replaced but the difference isn't usually noticeable in load times, only in sustained large file transfers. IOPS are more important than throughput in most cases. Originally Posted by dcuny These mini PCs are always coming out with better, faster versions, and they aren't like a desktop computer where you can just swap the CPU out. Some of them have socketed CPU's - I've got an HP Elitedesk 800, and on that one it's possible to replace the i5 with an i7 or i9. Originally Posted by Mike Halloran An ARM based PC may have a chance. Count on any Intel based PC made now to be obsolete before then. This has nothing to do with whether or not the hardware will last—with any decent cooling system, that should be easy to achieve. Yep, another reason to look at an actual Mac, since they stopped building any Intel machines 5 years ago. Even on the Windows side of things they're slowly moving towards ARM for efficiency, which will eventually drag the performance market along with it. I work here

Re: Building a music production PC that will last 10 years Simon - PG Music #862134 09/10/25 07:11 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 3,507 J justanoldmuso Veteran
justanoldmuso Veteran J Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 3,507	Simon. re Mac's./mac mini etc etc. i agree with you the new mac mini is nice BUT i find every time i look at products like the mac mini there is something that irks me. soldered memory and lack of expansion for one. dont get me wrong i LOVE the new clever apple M processors...but its the rest of it. in addition given rapid obsolescence imho there is no need to pay 2k for a new pc...crikey my new ry mini pc cost peanuts and rb reports it can do over 300 tracks. (so i halve that to 150 tracks to allow a safety margin....frankly i would never use above 50 tracks as an old LA producer schooled me 'you might be polishing a ****...hits were done done years ago with 3 or 4 tracks. i'm not advocating THAT...but all the songs in my sig done useing pg products used less than 50 tracks.) right now mini pc's arent sitting still either with huge memory expandability (virtual instruments anyone ?) and things like ability to have multiple on board m.2 storage devices... my now a tad older new mini pc that cost peanuts runs bb and rb like a champ. (ry7//m.2 etc.)....rb reportas i said can do over 300 tracks with it. and its crazy fast with bb genning in a blink of an eye. in summary yes some great things are being done with the mac mini's etc... but the mini win pc's arent standing still either. one brand is even mentioned awhile back for music production in one of the music production mags...GEEKOM. go to https://www.geekompc.com/ for configs etc....these guys are making an impact. ps as the M series processors move to i suspect m5/m6/m7/m8/m9... STILL maybe i'll get a half off refurb m.4 mini for s's and giggles...and experiments. imho this is the way to buy this stuff. its like older pc's buy refurbs like i used to...right now on amazon a person can get the famed HP Z barnstormer with xeon processors that cost megabuks and used by studios as low as 300 bucks cdn. and there are tons of great under 150 buck refurbs that will run bb/rb like a champ...ive seen as low as 80 bucks...great for a little studio starting out... and the added advantage is fully tested and no bloatware. tis a nuts market...lol. my old i5 refurb worth nothing now runs bb like a champ. respect and happiness. om Last edited by justanoldmuso; 09/10/25 07:13 AM. my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)

Re: Building a music production PC that will last 10 years justanoldmuso #862144 09/10/25 10:39 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,861 Sillie Con Valley, California Mike Halloran Expert
Mike Halloran Expert Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,861 Sillie Con Valley, California	Originally Posted by justanoldmuso Simon. re Mac's./mac mini etc etc. i agree with you the new mac mini is nice BUT i find every time i look at products like the mac mini there is something that irks me. soldered memory and lack of expansion for one. … om Yea, Apple has been doing this for a decade now on laptops and Minis and it's made them totally useless for music production — except that it hasn't. They're great machines for audio. Despite your concerns, a bare bones 2018 Intel Mini with 16GB RAM can run 450 tracks of Logic Pro without choking. I've run 300 tracks on my wife's M1 MacBook Air with 8GB RAM with the same result. Apple stopped posting audio tests after the 2017 iMac Pro (32GB RAM is the minimum they came with) was released because those stats flat out don't matter. Every YouTuber was stopping after 1,000 tracks in their test projects on these things. My 14 core iMP was a beast but my 18 Core smoked it which surprised me sine I upgraded to get a larger System drive and more RAM for AV (trading in saved me $1,200 over upgrading the 14 Core). The last Mac where audio performance mattered was the 2013 Mac Pro 6.1 (aka trashcan) that choked on 288 tracks of Logic Pro and around 150 tracks of old versions of ProTools. Even so, it is still in wide use in many world class studios and mastering houses with a ton of Grammys on the shelves and shiny metal disks in frames on the walls. I know a lot of these guys and none of them have any intention of upgrading—many are scoring for film but none are using them to create AV. The only stats that matter anymore are AV/Video and AI — unless you are a gamer which I'm not. This is where speed and horsepower matter and rendering AI in the box requires a lot more resources than AV as I have found out. You wouldn't know any of this, of course. You speculate, then yak, yak, yak, yak, yak, yak, yak… but it looks like you never buy anything. You have zero real world experience with anything new. For the record, I currently have a pair of 2012 MacBook Pros, my daughter's old 2015 MBP, my wife's old 2013 MBAir, her M1 MB Air that I mentioned above and everything runs great. I sold my 14 and 18 core iMac Pros and now have a 2023 M2 Ultra Studio with 192GB RAM and an 8TB System drive. Overkill for audio? Certainly but I do a lot of AV and am not likng its performance when rendering AI. BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5

Re: Building a music production PC that will last 10 years Mike Halloran #862169 09/10/25 03:59 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 3,507 J justanoldmuso Veteran
justanoldmuso Veteran J Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 3,507	Mike... My reply.. (ps...can we keep little digs like 'you never buy' out of what i always hope is a nice discussion ?...thanks and i'll leave it at that...fyi i only buy things that 'meet my needs.'..would be a boring world imho if we were all the same personality imho.) ..i'm well aware of the nice performance capabilities on macs. one reason why i like the M processor tech. ..my concern with soldered memory is lets say one has a studio with paying clients. and one has a memory problem. with a pc i can quickly replace memory with back up memory ive kept for such a situation or i can go to my local pc store and get more memory...with soldered memory different story. ..let me point out that are lots of studios big and small useing pc's....and have for yonks....just see sites where thousands of studios hang out like gearspace.com. and here of course. frankly re pc i think some users have issues because they werent carefull about which pc they purchased. or maybe they are useing a clunker or a pc that needs optimising for music production. also lots of studios use both macs and pc's. (i have no interest in a mac vs pc debate....its been done a million times on different recording studio forums....) ..my two recently bought mini pc's ive had no problems with...and the previous generation pc's same. when i had way back a dual athlon pc i had the occasional OS glitch..but nothing that got me annoyed big time. ..right now pc bb track generation is blink of an eye...couldnt get any faster probably. om Last edited by justanoldmuso; 09/10/25 04:00 PM. my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)

Re: Building a music production PC that will last 10 years justanoldmuso #862211 Yesterday at 01:24 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2020 Posts: 2,727 Victoria, BC Simon - PG Music Product Manager
Simon - PG Music Product Manager Joined: May 2020 Posts: 2,727 Victoria, BC	Originally Posted by justanoldmuso soldered memory and lack of expansion for one. Soldered memory - I agree with both you and Mike. Sure, I prefer having upgradable memory whenever possible, but since I haven't had any memory die on me in a LONG time I don't see soldered memory as a big reliability issue, or at least not any more than having a soldered CPU/GPU. Honestly I can't remember the last time I had any RAM issues - the most recent I can think of is a faulty 64mb PC100 stick in the Pentium II I just finished building, but that's a 27 year old part! Soldered storage on the other hand, flash memory WILL eventually wear out the more data you write to it - but the key word being "eventually". SSD's are typically rated for a certain amount of "Terabytes written", or TBW, and larger SSD's will theoretically last longer as the writes can be spread out over more area. The 1tb SSD in my Windows machine is around 6 months old, rated at 600TBW, and in those 6 months of 8 hours a day usage I've apparently written 6297gb, or just over 1% of the rated lifespan of my SSD. Extrapolating from this, my SSD should last around 50 years. My M1 Mac gets used less often, and in ~4.5 years it's written 14.3tb or ~3.2tb per year. Given that the SSD in it is only 256gb the lifespan is probably rated at 150TBW (Apple doesn't provide a rating), meaning that I can expect this Mac to last 47 years give or take a few. This is all academic of course, but the reality is that in the 15 years or so that I've been using SSD's I've seen only two fail. Thankfully though the storage in the M4 Mac Mini's is actually replaceable! Not with standard off-the-shelf parts - Apple uses custom modules of course - but that means you can upgrade or replace storage later at least. My only issue with the M4 is the price of RAM upgrades, being that going from 16gb to 32gb nearly doubles the price of the whole computer - 600 bucks, when another 16gb ram stick is $60! That right there is why, after 17 years of being a Mac user, my next computer will be a PC running Linux (but that's a discussion for another time and is completely outside the scope of BIAB). Originally Posted by justanoldmuso right now mini pc's arent sitting still either with huge memory expandability (virtual instruments anyone ?) and things like ability to have multiple on board m.2 storage devices... I do love my mini HP which can be expanded to 64gb of ram and has two M.2 slots plus a 2.5" SATA bay, and theoretically can be upgraded to an 8-core i7 or i9. 150 bucks! Originally Posted by Mike Halloran Despite your concerns, a bare bones 2018 Intel Mini with 16GB RAM can run 450 tracks of Logic Pro without choking. I've run 300 tracks on my wife's M1 MacBook Air with 8GB RAM with the same result. Exactly, like I mentioned before my M1 with 16gb was easily able to handle 200 tracks in Logic. I will mention though that my old 2013 MBP with 8gb ram had issues though, in particular Pro Tools consistently complained about memory with ZERO tracks, literally doing nothing! Originally Posted by Mike Halloran The last Mac where audio performance mattered was the 2013 Mac Pro 6.1 (aka trashcan) that choked on 288 tracks of Logic Pro and around 150 tracks of old versions of ProTools. Even so, it is still in wide use in many world class studios and mastering houses with a ton of Grammys on the shelves and shiny metal disks in frames on the walls. I know a lot of these guys and none of them have any intention of upgrading—many are scoring for film but none are using them to create AV. The 'ol Trashcans could be quite good machines, it's really only the base model 4-core that had issues. Apparently it came down to a cooling issue causing throttling which didn't happen on the 6-12 core models, but since people could only afford the 4-core thanks to a $1000USD premium for the 6-core... Originally Posted by justanoldmuso (ps...can we keep little digs like 'you never buy' out of what i always hope is a nice discussion ?...thanks and i'll leave it at that... Yes, please. I work here

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August 22, 2025

XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!

XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!

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August 06, 2025

Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!

It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!

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July 27, 2025

New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!

We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!

Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!

Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.

Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles

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July 23, 2025

Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!

With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!

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This Free Bonus PAK includes:

The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK: -For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles. -For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles. -For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.

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20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe

Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!

July 21, 2025

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

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Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

July 21, 2025

New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!

We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!

If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!

Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

July 21, 2025

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

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