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David, wow, this is REALLY nice! Super write, and the arrangement is perfect. Amazing vocals that remind me of a modern take on David Gates. Very impressive. Those harmonies are sweet as well. Think in the future I'll delay reading your longer narrative until after listening to the song for the first time. I LOVE reading about your process, but I can sense my subsequent listens are somewhat distracted by knowledge of what the Wizard was doing behind the curtain. And you are ONE BUSY WIZARD. But a Wizard indeed.  We're not in Kansas any more...
DC Ron
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David, I completely enjoyed this, both as a passive listener and as an analytic listener. It is so complete, compared to my work where I seem to just get the basic skeletal structure "out there", your work is so thoroughly thought through (th-th-th!), and the result shows. Your mastery of the components is way beyond my comprehension or skill level, and I always take something away. I find your postings are like taking a composition/mixing/production course--much to dig into. I have to say that the one thing that I liked best was the short-stopping of the words "undone", "small", and "sad"--I think no one would have any problem if you drew out these words at the end of lines, but cutting them off as you did is pleasing and attention-grabbing (to my ears). excellence once again! Thanks for sharing your work!
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The intro has serious classic Glenn Campbell vibes.
Very cool strings.
Nice essay too.
Well done - excellent mix.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Hi, Andrew. I like where the song picks up intensity in the choruses, and to my ears, the peak was in ‘rabbit on the run / life has come undone’ sections - not lyrically (although I didn’t mind the words) but musically. I'm glad that worked for you! I thought I heard a line cliche or two in the song, which always attracts me. Yes, you did. You've got good ears! I didn't mention it in the writeup, because I couldn't remember what they were called.  I've got a "To Do" list of things to try out in songs, and that was on the list. It made sense to use it here, because it works well with ballads. It's something along the lines of G Gmaj7 G6 Gadd2 D Dmaj7 D7. Line cliches work well on the guitar and keyboard, but don't always translate well to BiaB, but I think it worked nicely in this case. Lyrically, I find songs that have a ‘woe is me’ theme to be emotionally tiring - don’t get me wrong - I am not critiquing your lyrics, but my reaction to these types of songs. I think that’s because I have to fight my own negativity and pessimism. It made think … what does his former other think of this situation? Interesting if there was ever a ‘their side of the story’ response song e.g. I had to escape because you were too clingy and stifling. Yeah, I tried to touch on that in the writeup. That's the thought I had when working on the second verse. If someone doesn't want to be around you, it sucks, but as my daughter would say - that's a you problem. I deleted a long anecdote, but the punch line was having to explain to someone that, yes, I understood he missed my wife. But didn't he think that was a weird thing to be telling her husband? And no, she wasn't ever going to talk to him again. Thank you for the write-up of your process - I find it interesting/enlightening to hear of the songs development through arrangement - the ideas that are inspired by the recording and arranging process. I don’t know where you find the patience for it - what seems like a lengthy process. I guess it’s about quality and the learning experience. I figure if I suffered for my art, you need also need to.  I also thought while listening - acknowledging I have listened to very little, and never used, AI vocals - the North American accent and vocal stylings - what it would do to the song with a McCartney-esque or UK styled vocal? First, some clarification on SynthV. A voice provider is basically given a "script" of words to sing at different pitches. English has a lot of phonemes, so there are lots and lots of words to sing. The original version of SynthV didn't use AI at all, it just reassembled the voice similar to how BiaB works. Later, they trained a neural network because it was better at connecting all these phonemes. The accent of the voice provider will come through. Here's an example: https://soundcloud.com/dcuny/ive-been-downAnd yes, there are a number of mis-pronounced words. There's no way to remove that accent from that voice provider. Most of the English voice providers for SynthV have been North American, so there aren't really many UK voices. With some effort, I do some substitutions and edits and try to approximate a Liverpool accent, but it would sound very much like an American trying to do a (poor) British accent. There are other ways to go about this. For example, RVC is the process of training a neural network on a specific voice, so it will take an input voice and replace it with the timbre of another voice. That will get you somewhat in the ballpark, but the original singer should optimally have something close to that accent in the first place. I suspect that eventually there will be more UK-flavored voices for SynthV. I have ACE Studio (but the voices are IMO, not great), and none of the voices sound British to me. I just loaded the MIDI output of this song onto ACE Studio, and verified the voices aren't great. They aren't terrible, they just seem to be missing phonemes and not sound especially realistic. They're pleasant enough to listen to, though. I can't speak to programs like Suno, though. And given your own interest in AI vocals, do you have any views or insights into how a song is changed by the AI vocal selected! I would think a lot if we say that a vocal is an instrument and the effect would be tantamount to change of solo instrument in an instrumental. I very much write songs to a specific voice. And each voice comes with different "modes", like "whisper", "sweet", "chest", and so on. You can easily change singers, but each voice has its own character, so it may not translate well. And you sort of hear an "attitude" that matches the voice, which helps in the songwriting process. Anyhow, a good song and I listened three times. Thanks! Let me know if you've got any other questions.
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Hi, Herb. That has a cool Seals & Croft kind of sound. Thanks! Like it or not, I think 70's is my wheelhouse. That is a really cool bass track. Glad you could hear it in the mix. As a basic piano player, so I'll typically look at a chart and see if there's something interesting I can do with the bass line to make it more interesting. That typically means figuring out nice stepwise movement. That carries over to songwriting, since it's an easy way make something sound more interesting without having to work out complicated chords. And the bass player has some nice bits that come through the mix. I was tempted to boost them so the were more obvious, but it wasn't necessary. The vocals could have stood to be a bit more front and center. ( A few dB louder ) I'll give it some thought. I tend to make vocals a bit too hot, so I'm trying to be conservative. I really enjoyed reading your long version explanation of the details. I'm glad you liked it. And yes... Suno as well as others will give a fairly nice cover version as well as the vocal track you give it. I've got mixed feelings about Suno, but there's no denying that the output can be very good. I'm curious how in the world you managed to get Floyd Jane to work on an AI song with you. As badly as he likes to talk s*** about AI and bots, who'd-a-thunk-it! Kudos on however you did it. He might get pulled into the dark side yet. Nahhh, probably not. There's no chance that he'll go to the dark side. You're right - the AI vocals do grate on him. There are little "tells" that once you hear, you can't un-hear. Suno's modern country vocals are starting to effect me that way: overly compressed and glassy with something I can't quite put my finger on. They've very good, but they're so slick that my brain stops listening. The real question is, what will AI eventually do to this forum? Time will tell. Also note that these aren't really "AI" vocals in the sense that most people mean it. It's really a neural network trained on concatenative synthesis data. Suno is a different animal entirely. But it's still hard on floyd jane's ears, so I'm glad he was able to look past it. Good song. And a lot of work. Thanks! I appreciate you stopping to listen and comment!
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David, what an outstanding song. The chord progression and arrangement was brilliant. You made those synth voices sound so real - brilliant work. IMHO this is one of your best.
Loved it.
PS - thanx for the song creation details.
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Hi, Ron. David, wow, this is REALLY nice! Super write, and the arrangement is perfect. Amazing vocals that remind me of a modern take on David Gates. Very impressive. Those harmonies are sweet as well. Thanks! I remember hearing the demo song for An Xiao and being impressed by the voice. But the cross-synthesis wasn't great, and he had too much of an accent for me to use as a lead voice. They've fixed most of the issues with the latest release, although some of the /d/ sounds are still a bit "thick", and I was pleasantly surprised by his voice. Of course, it helps that I use the voice when working out the melody, which ensures that the vocal range is good and the timbre fits. Gates (and Bread) was a monster on the charts back in the day. And a huge influence. Turns out that he bought a cattle ranch. Who'd have thunk?  Think in the future I'll delay reading your longer narrative until after listening to the song for the first time. I LOVE reading about your process, but I can sense my subsequent listens are somewhat distracted by knowledge of what the Wizard was doing behind the curtain. And you are ONE BUSY WIZARD. But a Wizard indeed. One of the things Sunu showed me was that there are a lot of ways to arrange a song. If it's got a nice melody, it'll be fine no matter what you do. Heck, just vocals and guitar or piano will work. All this is really just window dressing that hopefully stays out of the way of the vocals. Thanks for listening and commenting!
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David, I completely enjoyed this, both as a passive listener and as an analytic listener. It is so complete, compared to my work where I seem to just get the basic skeletal structure "out there", your work is so thoroughly thought through (th-th-th!), and the result shows. I'm glad you enjoyed it. That's what this is all about. Nice alliteration! Your mastery of the components is way beyond my comprehension or skill level, and I always take something away. It's not really mastery - I'm learning like everyone else. For everything that I get right, there are also lots misses. But that's the way we get better, right? I'm glad you can find something useful in all this. I certainly do when listening to other people's songs. I find your postings are like taking a composition/mixing/production course--much to dig into. I have to say that the one thing that I liked best was the short-stopping of the words "undone", "small", and "sad"--I think no one would have any problem if you drew out these words at the end of lines, but cutting them off as you did is pleasing and attention-grabbing (to my ears). excellence once again! Thanks for sharing your work! Thanks for noticing that! I started with a lot less syncopation and staccato, but added it in to give some rhythmic interest (as well as a touch of onomatopoeia), and then dialed it back again. It's super helpful to be able to play with phrasing of lines to see what works. Thanks for listening and your kind words!
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Hi, Ray. The intro has serious classic Glenn Campbell vibes. Thanks! You can't get better than that. I think one of the motivations for doing this goes back to all those great songs I heard, and thinking I'd love to do that!George Martin's orchestration for The Beatles and America certainly left a strong impression on me. I'm glad you enjoyed it! Well done - excellent mix. Thanks! I've been going back to prior songs, trying to figure out why some mixes work, and others don't. While it's very tempting to think that it's being able to EQ and the plug-ins, I suspect that it's mostly about having less instruments in the mix, and making sure they respect the other instruments space. Thanks for listening and the positive feedback!
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Hi, Mario. David, what an outstanding song. Thanks! The chord progression and arrangement was brilliant. I owe it all to the circle of fifths. You made those synth voices sound so real - brilliant work. I suspect it's mostly a matter of not trying to get them to do things they can't do well. As long as they don't detract from showing off the song, they're working. My sister refuses to listen to my songs because she can't stand the synth vocalists. I can't say I blame her. At some point, I'm going to need to start singing myself. I thought it was going to be this one, which is one of the reasons I kept the vocal range so restrained. But I bailed again. Next time, for sure maybe. IMHO this is one of your best.
Loved it. Thanks!  PS - thanx for the song creation details. Thank you for listening and your comments!
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David,
Really nice song you got going on here!
It has a very '70s type nostalgic fun feel to it.
Sounds like it could be the theme song on a 70 sitcom like WKRP in Cincinnati or something.
I really liked it.
Very soothing.
That song description you have is quite detailed to say the very least my friend.
😂
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Hi, Ron. David, wow, this is REALLY nice! Super write, and the arrangement is perfect. Amazing vocals that remind me of a modern take on David Gates. Very impressive. Those harmonies are sweet as well. Thanks! I remember hearing the demo song for An Xiao and being impressed by the voice. But the cross-synthesis wasn't great, and he had too much of an accent for me to use as a lead voice. They've fixed most of the issues with the latest release, although some of the /d/ sounds are still a bit "thick", and I was pleasantly surprised by his voice. Of course, it helps that I use the voice when working out the melody, which ensures that the vocal range is good and the timbre fits. Gates (and Bread) was a monster on the charts back in the day. And a huge influence. Turns out that he bought a cattle ranch. Who'd have thunk? Think in the future I'll delay reading your longer narrative until after listening to the song for the first time. I LOVE reading about your process, but I can sense my subsequent listens are somewhat distracted by knowledge of what the Wizard was doing behind the curtain. And you are ONE BUSY WIZARD. But a Wizard indeed. One of the things Sunu showed me was that there are a lot of ways to arrange a song. If it's got a nice melody, it'll be fine no matter what you do. Heck, just vocals and guitar or piano will work. All this is really just window dressing that hopefully stays out of the way of the vocals. Thanks for listening and commenting! David, sorry for the second input, BUT... Yeah, I spent WAY too many hours in the upper bunk of my dorm room learning the guitar parts to Best of Bread my freshman year. Should have spent more time on calculus. But then again, I've forgotten all my calculus and I still know Best of Bread inside out. Absolutely agree with your "if it's got a nice melody" approach to songwriting. I'm there 110%. Lastly, reviewing your other replies, I'm SO thankful to know I'm not the only one who can still hear the tells in AI (and most other synthesized) vocals. Know this will change in time as the technology gets better and my listening gets less discerning. But for now, I'm like you in that I focus on other parts of the music once I hear the tells. Don't get me wrong, think non-human vocals of ALL types are about to really take off. Will make me a little sad though, when vocalists better than me (not so hard!) choose to go that way. I'll miss the human aspect of it, even when I can't tell whether it's human. Weird, huh?
DC Ron
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Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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Hi, David. Really nice song you got going on here!
It has a very '70s type nostalgic fun feel to it.
Sounds like it could be the theme song on a 70 sitcom like WKRP in Cincinnati or something. Are you sure you aren't confusing it with this one? Because that's the one I'd submit for a sitcom. Thanks! That song description you have is quite detailed to say the very least my friend. Yeah, I must be compensating for something...  Thanks for the kind words!
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Hi, Ron. David, sorry for the second input, BUT... Who says we can't have a conversation? Yeah, I spent WAY too many hours in the upper bunk of my dorm room learning the guitar parts to Best of Bread my freshman year. Should have spent more time on calculus. But then again, I've forgotten all my calculus and I still know Best of Bread inside out. You should have spent more time on calculus because... how many times a day do you encounter a function and think if only I had a well formulated system to approximate the area under this curve, or If only I had some means of a calculating the a vector of my changing velocity. Absolutely agree with your "if it's got a nice melody" approach to songwriting. I'm there 110%. It's easy for me to spend a lot of time dressing something up instead of going back and fixing what needs to be repaired. That's why appreciate feedback. Lastly, reviewing your other replies, I'm SO thankful to know I'm not the only one who can still hear the tells in AI (and most other synthesized) vocals. The genie isn't going back into the bottle, but I won't be surprised if people starting pushing back on this forum about the use of AI in music. We'll see.
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Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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