Originally Posted by MarioD
Originally Posted by Gordon Scott
...............................................

A corollary to that is of being "too close to program". They know where and how to get to and use features, because they do it all the time for years. They know from experience to just avoid the trap doors. The same is true of experienced users ... they automatically do things in the ways that work, subconsciously avoiding the things that don't. I make no criticism by that; it's just what happens.
.................................

At work when I was writing or in charge of those writing Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) I would bring in a person whom had no idea about the procedure and have them follow the SOP. If they could do it the SOP was finished. If not it was rewrite times. We used to call it gorilla proofing. I should note that I was the gorilla a few times!

I hope PGM is really listening to new user problems as they are the SOP testers.

I so much agree! Cubase, a program I have used for about 30 years, comes out with a total rewrite every now and then, and is better for it. BIAB needs a total rewrite, there are just too many weeds and bear traps. I have been using it since 2007, and before that on other peoples DAWS. I just do not use most features as they are too flaky and difficult to use. Even now, everytime I use BIAB it does not close properly and leaves a file helpfully called "t" which stops WIndows 11 closing. None of my many hundreds of other applications freezes, crashes or hiccups as much as BIAB. They just work.

What PG need to do desperately, is to get together a group of younger musicians, that have not used the product and give them a list of things to do, such as make and delete repeats, change real tracks etc, and really watch what actually happens, how people struggle or not. See how they struggle with the looping for example. It's one thing to have a function, another to have a function that actually works for the user, another to have a function that a user can actually find.
It's also overblown, has too many options displayed in more than one place, bringing clutter and things do not work as expected. For yet another example, using the chord builder if you click "Close" tehn the chord builder dissappears, never to be seen again, until the program is closed and restarted. What i and any reasonable person would expect is for it to simply close the window and to be able to open it again. Another: In the Styles panel, top right, there is an instruction "type in a familar song title...." Below this is straight line (not a box) then some buttons, and below this a box. The box does nothing at all. If you try to write a song name in it, no letters appear, it is completely useless. Once you realise that the line above it is for this function, then you can morve on, but it is a bear trap because many users, particularly newbies, would go for the non sensical box as a text entry point, find it non functional and think the function is broken somehow. It's just bodgy programming. Here is another bear trap. I have my BIAB set up to "ASIO ALWAYS" note the word "always". This means that when I play back my tracks tehy are unaffected by the WIndows Volume Control - "Always" but no. Here we have a bear trap for users. If you are in Style Picker and playt a demo, this IS going bthrough Windows Audio. This means, that if you have the Windows VOlume cntrol set to zero, as I often do, you can click away on teh demos but you won't hear anything. Of course there is no clue as to why. it took me days to find out this. I also found that the level of the playback of style demos, varied too greatly and this was down to this function completely outside of Asio and Biab - the windows volume control.
It is the sheer number of these bear traps that make BIAB function like an immature program in first or seconmd build. This together with the WIN 95 look the lack of consistency in sub menus, teh overcrowding of menus and teh lack of trumpeting of the real musicians used ion studios for Real Tracks (its freal saving grace) which is failing to bring BIAB into prime time, epsecially with younger audiences. As for Wish lists, I used to post, but nothing happened, sometimes for decades. PG was very late implementing 64 bit and VST support fro example.
I just hope it get's a better more professional, economical, elegant and consistent look, a fix for the eternally aggravating loop dysfuctions and a proper rewrite.
Z

Last edited by ZeroZero; 9 hours ago.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k