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RealBand
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non-destructive editing tools..............doesn't RB save backups so you can call up a version where you didn't make the edit you now don't want? and can't you choose to close and not save changes so going back to the file as you opened it and before you started work?
maybe i'm not appreciating the full concept but i have never been unabled to correct my many disasters!
Last edited by Bob Calver; 09/29/25 01:04 AM.
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RealBand
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Bob that is a perfect example of what i am talking about. Yes it does have back up which is a way to handle the issue. Yet if you have worked in Studio one, Reaper, Logic etc. you know that when you edit there are a lot of ways to fix a problem undo, and such that do not require a complete return to an older version of the song. In clip based editing you can move clips of material around and change them at will In RB that is a bit more work. That said it still has a way to do what you want it just requires a bit more effort to find that path. This is at the heart of the issue RB may have a few less fancy new tools, but it does have some things the other do not have. I still love working in it!
I think one way to get others to really dig into it would be through some updated videos showing the way it does things. Many of the videos are 5 or more years old.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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RealBand
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i understand rb is programmed (and bb ??) in delphi. ive never used delphi so ive done some digging. if one googles 'delphi compiler advantages' one will see that delphi has various advantages to a developer. (see you tube also.) one major one being compiling fast to a standalone executable with no run time dependencies. whereas C++ which lots of music apps/daws are programmed in DOES...which can be a pain sometimes to a dev....and users. (correct me if i'm wrong.) from what i see so far i see no reason if one is useing delphi for daw development why delphi might a limiting factor. in summary it has various advantages...a reason why it has a very dedicated user base. SOOO...useing delphi...imho a nice nde (non destructive) daw could be built. its no biggie to me re nde (which i have in reaper) as i do frequent back ups anyways like others have said...each backup always dated/detailed. so i dont see the use of delphi is an issue. imho a developer can do anything he/she wants in it....as it compiles to 'native code'. frankly i dislike compilers that rely on external dependencies so this is a plus that delphi doesnt need them. what i DO believe might be an issue is rb (like bb) has some very old code in it...as pg have responded to various user demands over the years. in this respect a dev like pg is in a no win situation. its like gui's...there are lots of different user opinions out there as to what their ideal gui is. all a dev can do is strive as much as possible to keep both old users (used to the way things have always been) and new users happy. been there done that. its nearly impossible...its like herding cats...lol. any seasoned dev will know this is true. (i agree with rob...more rb vids are needed showing tha many unique and wonderfull things rb can do re other music apps. i believe pg need to bring out a table with tick markers showing what each of bb and bb plugin and rb can or cannot do. its badly needed imho to stop new user confusion....ie wanna do X ? use this kinda idea.) i hope i make some sense. happiness. om ps...if one wants to get into programming a bit and realise a great appreciation of what pg have achieved with rb/bb (warts and all.) try this...whch compiles to a standalone native exe. https://www.purebasic.com/if you want to build your own even basic audio/midi daw i'll hear from you in a few years imho...lol. i believe there is a demo available.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 09/29/25 09:44 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
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Most every coding/compiling option has a free version that works.
That's not an issue.
The issue with Delphi is nobody else is doing cutting edge audio with it so finding any help/ideas is pretty limited, and then you have to adapt whatever concept they had to fit your need.
Coding is not as plug/play as many think.
That decision to use Delphi was done long ago, and thus changing at this point is a massive undertaking.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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I still wonder why we get so many BIAB queries about things that are dead easy to do in RB. Do new users not try RB? Is there a reluctance to leave BIAB when a project is in progress? Or just that its only in this RB forum that the benefits of using RB are laid out. Those of us that started on floppy discs and midi only BIAB got used to editing in PT in the days when the programs were much easier to navigate with much less steep learing curves. So maybe the current daunting task of mastering BIAB puts people off jumping into another program. Speaking personally, I originally bought BiaB in 2012 as a better replacement for iRealPro ... my bandmates all said it was much better for practice. They were all also seasoned users of BiaB. For me, BiaB itself was a steep learning curve and, as I've mentioned before, the older interface simply wasn't usable on the small laptop I was using. I gave up on BiaB and, with the steep learning curve of it, didn't do any more than briefly look at RB. Both had the same VGA-style interface with a whole mess of big, clumsy, buttons. I walked away. I came back a year or few later when the newer interface had come out, persuaded again by my bandmates. It's better to my eyes and is usable on that small laptop. But the learning curve and, I'm afraid, the number of bugs the year I returned really put me off of trying anything else. It's better, but I still find it takes far too long to do most things I want for practice, so I'm still using iRealPro. I used RB recently to adapt a MIDI song to a custom purpose and RB seemed to do it quite well, but I'm not sure it solved any of the "too hard" problems with using BiaB as a practice tool. The bottom line is that I want to practice making music, not spend hours messing about with a, to me at least, clunky user interface. Just me perspective. Others will have different views. Edit: putting iRealPro into perspective, under a little pressure I can enter the chords and structure for a song while a bandmate reads them out to me and then go on to use the chord-sheet in the session and the player later for practice. BiaB usually takes me an hour or so per song, even now I'm used to avoiding its Repeats screw-ups.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 09/29/25 02:12 PM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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RealBand
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RB has the same chord method entry as BiaB .. I don't see the chord entry part taking that long though.
If you are generating in a space that needs faster speed, well, BiaB generates faster
/mostly true, except RB lets you do odd times, if needed, and handles the chords a little different in those areas.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Rharv. re delphi...thats a great point youve made. but what i'm grappling with is what features are missing from delphi that would make c/c++ a better solution ? i would love to know pg's viewpoint as to why C/C++ werent used. as i understand it one advantage of delphi is those C++ headers. in the end whatever the compiler used the devs would need to interface with the win api's//audio api's...no ?? i'm gonna delve more as to if in fact c/c++ is better for daw coding/development than delphi. maybe JY can jump in. as to a perspective. ........................................................... on another matter for people/lurkers wanting to do ritardandos... noel has a tip which would suggest that rb is the better vehicle. the fill feature is very nice...and i'm kicking my A cos i didnt think to mention it. kudos noel....heres the link.... https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=863843#Post863843heres another poser...why do people use rb over say the new bb plugin ?? reason i ask is i keep on coming back to rb. ps..i love aussies. happiness to all. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 09/29/25 04:51 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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RealBand
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I know when he was looking for VST3 clues for Delphi, I sent him a link to the only useful thing I found, which was in no way an exact match for what he needed, just an idea pretty much
Looked at a lot of crap, found a single link that looked applicable.
One
No idea if he even looked at it, but he got VST3 into RB, so it's all doable once you figure it out.
It's just finding a few clues to get started. I mean, every application these days uses a library ... and there are tons of libraries, so finding the right library leads to clues
Last edited by rharv; 09/30/25 03:11 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Rharv.
re delphi...thats a great point youve made.
but what i'm grappling with is what features are missing from delphi that would make c/c++ a better solution ?
i would love to know pg's viewpoint as to why C/C++ werent used. Obviously I can't and don't speak for PGM here, but Delphi was created by Borland and was then, IIRC, a RAD (Rapid Applications Development) platform for Pascal. That would imply that BIAB was likely originally written in Pascal, not C, and the switch to Delhpi would have looked sensible. I went through some similar things with RADs and occasionally still have to clean up consequences of using them. RADs are great ... until they're not ... then they can be a real PITA. Coding is not as plug/play as many think. Amen to that.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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RealBand
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Rharv. re vst3... correct me if i'm wrong but vst was created by steiny right ? wouldnt there be info from steiny re vst 3 implementation ??...eg ?? https://steinbergmedia.github.io/vst3_dev_portal/pages/Technical+Documentation/Index.htmlGordon.. lets face it and ive worked with code wizards many times in my life (i'm not one...lol.). every dev tool/compiler has its potential problems...because the underlying OS eg win or mac os or whatever is the controller...ie 'big daddy'..lol.....like a boss in a workplace. every tool has its plusses and minuses. i would love to hear from people what advantages the bb new plugin has over rb. cos i dont see it....just the rb multitude of tracks/features/tracks view and bars view are but a few of many adantages of rb....as well as all the ton of features re midi....recording/playback etc etc....and audio/midi editing sooo...what is the advantage of bb plugin over rb ?? why did bb users want it ? what are the reasons ? frankly i really wish newbies would get past the surface look of rb and drill down....its the only way to appreciate rb imho....but then you must learn the app of course which its obvious some dont have the inclination to do...or even read the manual ?...sigh. god knows why... oh well. lets turn to 2026 rb....what new exciting features would you all like to see ? happiness. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/01/25 09:19 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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RealBand
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Gordon..
lets face it and ive worked with code wizards many times in my life (i'm not one...lol.).
every dev tool/compiler has its potential problems...because the underlying OS eg win or mac os or whatever is the controller...ie 'big daddy'..lol.....like a boss in a workplace. every tool has its plusses and minuses. Definitely not a correction. The difficulty in my mind with RADs is that they form an abstraction over and above the machine/OS to make access to the functions of that machine from a "higher level". But RADs are "middle management" that sometimes is radically changed, or even removed completely. Sometimes they stop supporting features one needs, because nobody else is using them so they're not worth supporting. All of a sudden the RAD no longer delivers what one needs and sometimes there's no workaround for that. Sometimes the only real option is to rewrite the program in a different RAD or language. This is no copy+paste exercise, this usually really can only be from the ground up. So much for a RAD making my job easier!
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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RealBand
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Amen to that
A lot of programs currently are layered abstractions that have become quite bulky to maintain.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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