FYI - I was at a nursing home Christmas party today, my aunt is a resident there. A duo was playing Christmas songs and tunes from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Two guys, one on a trumpet and flugelhorn and the other on a trombone. Both sang and played to backing tracks. After the gig I talked to them and asked what they were using for the backing tracks.They said iPro. I said I use Band-in-a-Box and their response was " that is to complicated".
I thought that was an interesting comment from two musicians. It was not about how dated the program looked but how complicated it was to create a song was using BiaB. That was their impression of BiaB.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal". Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Over many decades I’ve talked to other musicians about BIAB. I usually hear that they tried it and didn’t like the sound quality (from bad MIDI synths, never the fault of BIAB, and amazingly improved by RealTracks) but they didn’t try again, unless I demo it for them. That also quickly alleviates any doubts about how hard it first appears to be to learn. We musicians need to be evangelists.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I have often wondered how every year introducing 50+ new features - sometime twice yearly - might have made the program unwieldy to many. Let's see? 20 years of 50 new features adds 1000 new features, most of which potentially many users don't want, use or need. I think that model is a contributing factor to the suggestion that the program is complicated.
This year may be different because there are more feature improvements than new features. And that is something that many users have been begging for for a long time.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
I think the RealTracks sound very good but at the same time I have a feeling that there is something missing from them. I can't describe what I mean but I mostly get the feeling that it is not really right. It is like there is a level of "Edge" that is missing but I can't describe it.
I also think a major problem for new users are "How to find what they are looking for". (even very experienced users have big issues with this).
BIAB 2026, Studio Pro 8, Song Master Pro, Win11 Home. i7-9700K CPU, 32GB, ESI MAYA44eX, ZOOM UAC-2, Guitar Pro 8, Transcribe, (EZKeys2, EZD3, SD3, EZBass, EZMix3) Amateur: fiddle, guitar, vocal, beginner on bass.
… I also think a major problem for new users are "How to find what they are looking for". (even very experienced users have big issues with this).
I agree with this. It should be the next area for innovation. The ability to find RealTracks and Styles to match a song or sound could be improved.
Hi Matt and shlind. I found your comments so interesting. I too have trouble navigating the vast choices. But the filtering aspects of the unified picker seem to help greatly. What changes would you two propose to make things easier? I ask because I would love to be educated in better ways to search or understand how the process could be made better. Can you discuss this issue more? I think this is a really interesting issue.
... Hi Matt and shlind. I found your comments so interesting. I too have trouble navigating the vast choices. But the filtering aspects of the unified picker seem to help greatly. What changes would you two propose to make things easier? I ask because I would love to be educated in better ways to search or understand how the process could be made better. Can you discuss this issue more? I think this is a really interesting issue.
User shlind is correct; there are many discussions already about this, some that you can see and many others that were suggested behind the scenes during testing, and even some specific proposals that have been submitted by a small group of experienced users.
One specific answer to your request for an example is that the Sort function of the style and RealTrack picker should support sub-sorting within categories. We should be able to sort by Genre (like Jazz) then, keeping only those jazz entries, sort that further by tempo, then keeping that result in that tempo order, sort by Even or Swing feel, etc. Something like that.
Another specific request is to give BIAB a recording and ask it to find a few RealTracks or Styles that closely resemble the audio sample. We speculate this might be a feature where AI could eventually assist. There are other audio programs already with this ability, such as finding a similar drum beat.
And you are correct, the Multipicker is a great improvement! We are just suggesting possible next steps to make it even better. I'm not saying any particular person made these suggestions; it's been a team effort for decades. I do have quite a few of my suggestions that have been implemented, and so do many other users, but we get the best results when ideas are debated and refined. The Wishlist Forum is a good place for this to occur. This year, PG Music opened up the process more for suggestions (which we appreciate), and they sure received them!
Does that help explain? There's a lot more to it ... there's always more.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I think the RealTracks sound very good but at the same time I have a feeling that there is something missing from them. I can't describe what I mean but I mostly get the feeling that it is not really right. It is like there is a level of "Edge" that is missing but I can't describe it.
I also think a major problem for new users are "How to find what they are looking for". (even very experienced users have big issues with this).
I never thought of “edge” as being a constraint in BiaB styles, but I think you are on to something.
What if each BiaB style had a user-selectable “Edge Score”? This would allow for much easier style exploration plus a higher fidelity of creative control over your song.
Don’t think your song is edgy enough? Just increase the Edge Score and audition 😊
This might even reduce the “need” for over 7,000 styles to just a dozen or two, thereby solving the “It’s too difficult to search thru thousands of styles” problem.
I know there are anti-AI, or at least AI-ignorant folks here, but AI should easily be able to adjust the edge of a style if trained properly.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
... Hi Matt and shlind. I found your comments so interesting. I too have trouble navigating the vast choices. But the filtering aspects of the unified picker seem to help greatly. What changes would you two propose to make things easier? I ask because I would love to be educated in better ways to search or understand how the process could be made better. Can you discuss this issue more? I think this is a really interesting issue.
User shlind is correct; there are many discussions already about this, some that you can see and many others that were suggested behind the scenes during testing, and even some specific proposals that have been submitted by a small group of experienced users.
One specific answer to your request for an example is that the Sort function of the style and RealTrack picker should support sub-sorting within categories. We should be able to sort by Genre (like Jazz) then, keeping only those jazz entries, sort that further by tempo, then keeping that result in that tempo order, sort by Even or Swing feel, etc. Something like that.
Another specific request is to give BIAB a recording and ask it to find a few RealTracks or Styles that closely resemble the audio sample. We speculate this might be a feature where AI could eventually assist. There are other audio programs already with this ability, such as finding a similar drum beat.
And you are correct, the Multipicker is a great improvement! We are just suggesting possible next steps to make it even better. I'm not saying any particular person made these suggestions; it's been a team effort for decades. I do have quite a few of my suggestions that have been implemented, and so do many other users, but we get the best results when ideas are debated and refined. The Wishlist Forum is a good place for this to occur. This year, PG Music opened up the process more for suggestions (which we appreciate), and they sure received them!
Does that help explain? There's a lot more to it ... there's always more.
...I know there are anti-AI, or at least AI-ignorant folks here, but AI should easily be able to adjust the edge of a style if trained properly.
AI should ABSOLUTELY be used to enhance BiaB functionality in both search and stem generation, and probably more. Unfortunately (to me), the AI functions added to date have been bolt-ons only obliquely related to building a backing track. (I am obviously differentiating song deconstruction from backing track building, and biased to the latter)
We're in the dawn of a revolution in AI generated backing tracks, right?
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
I never thought of “edge” as being a constraint in BiaB styles, but I think you are on to something.
What if each BiaB style had a user-selectable “Edge Score”? This would allow for much easier style exploration plus a higher fidelity of creative control over your song.
Don’t think your song is edgy enough? Just increase the Edge Score and audition 😊
This might even reduce the “need” for over 7,000 styles to just a dozen or two, thereby solving the “It’s too difficult to search thru thousands of styles” problem.
I know there are anti-AI, or at least AI-ignorant folks here, but AI should easily be able to adjust the edge of a style if trained properly.
One question Bass Thumper, who defines Edge? Edge for you may be different than mine. If you asked100 people to define musical edge you probably get 100 different answers.
Using AI as a search tool for Styles, RTs, and RDs in BiaB IMHO is absolutely necessary.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal". Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
................................ One specific answer to your request for an example is that the Sort function of the style and RealTrack picker should support sub-sorting within categories. We should be able to sort by Genre (like Jazz) then, keeping only those jazz entries, sort that further by tempo, then keeping that result in that tempo order, sort by Even or Swing feel, etc. Something like that.
That would get a Big +1 from me.
Originally Posted by Matt Finley
Another specific request is to give BIAB a recording and ask it to find a few RealTracks or Styles that closely resemble the audio sample. We speculate this might be a feature where AI could eventually assist. There are other audio programs already with this ability, such as finding a similar drum beat.
Another big +1 from me
Originally Posted by Matt Finley
And you are correct, the Multipicker is a great improvement! We are just suggesting possible next steps to make it even better. I'm not saying any particular person made these suggestions; it's been a team effort for decades. I do have quite a few of my suggestions that have been implemented, and so do many other users, but we get the best results when ideas are debated and refined. The Wishlist Forum is a good place for this to occur. This year, PG Music opened up the process more for suggestions (which we appreciate), and they sure received them!
Does that help explain? There's a lot more to it ... there's always more.
Yes PGM did one heck of a job posting different improvement categories in the wishlist forum and then listening to the suggestions that were made. I hope they repeat the process in 2026
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal". Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
One question Bass Thumper, who defines Edge? Edge for you may be different than mine. If you asked100 people to define musical edge you probably get 100 different answers.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
I totally disagree. I don't think anyone or any company can universally define edge in music. Is it the groove? The lead instrument? The chord progression? A great bass line? Is edge the same for jazz as for blues, new age, ambient, country. folk, etc? IMHO Edge is to generic of a term for music.
I think the way PGM does it now with listing a song title and have BiaB select styles is the way to go. But as I and many others have said improvements must be made in that area. YMMV
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal". Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I have no idea how to define 'edge' for all genres. In jazz, I might say more edge is more use of chord substitutions, resulting in playing that sounds more 'outside'.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I have no idea how to define 'edge' for all genres. In jazz, I might say more edge is more use of chord substitutions, resulting in playing that sounds more 'outside'.
I call Edge Playing as 'playing in the cracks' (but that's only me). Peter Nero could do it. Oscar could do it - well, Oscar could do anything. Dudley Moore could do it.
It's an interesting term. I think that there are lots of interpretations.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
… What if each BiaB style had a user-selectable “Edge Score”? ...
I'm sure a slider for “Busier to Simpler” would likewise be welcomed.
On the StylePicker, there is, in the "Other" filters, an option for genre "Intensity" may help with that.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
I totally disagree. I don't think anyone or any company can universally define edge in music.
I'm not talking about PGMusic universally defining edge in music, I'm talking about PGMusic locally defining edge for the purpose of designing an adjustable Edge Score so that each style can be altered by the user along a dimension called "edge".
shlind first used this term within the context of BiaB "It is like there is a level of "Edge" that is missing but I can't describe it." And so, I too am using the term within the same BiaB context; not universally. Of course PGMusic cannot define or dictate a worldwide definition of musical edge.
I maintain that who should define "edge" from a BiaB perspective is slam dunk easy . . . PGMusic.
If I can define edge (see my table above), PGMusic certainly can; and for the purposes of BiaB, their definition would be expected to be superior to mine.
A "Busier to Simpler" style adjustment would also aid in style customization but to some degree that already exists. If you want more "busy" just add more instruments. "Edge" is different in that it involves song structure at a more fundamental level.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
OK, what you are calling edge I would call style or groove in "that was a smooth groove/style". IMHO your chart is universal in that "that (blank) song was very aggressive" where blank could be jazz, country, metal, rock, etc. YMMV
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal". Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
OK, what you are calling edge I would call style or groove in "that was a smooth groove/style". IMHO your chart is universal in that "that (blank) song was very aggressive" where blank could be jazz, country, metal, rock, etc. YMMV
The chart I shared is just my stab at trying to define "Edge" in a musical and actionable way such that if PGMusic so chooses they would have a starting point to implement an Edge Adjustment to their styles. I was thinking an Edge knob and Matt suggested a slider; same concept. As stated earlier, PGMusic would ultimately define what edge is within the context of BiaB style customization.
The point is that "edge" is a song attribute that is on a spectrum; it's not Boolean. Per my definition it ranges from 0 to 10. I don't necessarily call my edge definition "universal" but if that's how you interpret that chart, no problem, even though the intent was to have it apply only to a BiaB improvement.
That said, I'd be very interested in seeing your, and others charts that define "edge".
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
The chart I shared is just my stab at trying to define "Edge" in a musical and actionable way such that if PGMusic so chooses they would have a starting point to implement an Edge Adjustment to their styles. I was thinking an Edge knob and Matt suggested a slider; same concept. As stated earlier, PGMusic would ultimately define what edge is within the context of BiaB style customization.
The point is that "edge" is a song attribute that is on a spectrum; it's not Boolean. Per my definition it ranges from 0 to 10. I don't necessarily call my edge definition "universal" but if that's how you interpret that chart, no problem, even though the intent was to have it apply only to a BiaB improvement.
That said, I'd be very interested in seeing your, and others charts that define "edge".
I agree that "edge" is a spectrum and definitely not Boolean. Yes, I do take your chart as universal. From my experience I can not define "edge" in music. Is "edge" in jazz the same as "edge" in country? Or ambient? Or rock? ETC. I think not. Thus in my mind PGM would have to categorize "edge" in each and every genre. Plus "edge" can be a personal call. I would much prefer that PGM use it resources improving the search functions, make all tracks have identical functions, maybe add generic chord progressions like IIm-V7-C, and things like that than trying to define "edge". BUT that is only my opinion. I know that is different than yours but that is OK.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal". Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I agree that "edge" is a spectrum and definitely not Boolean. Yes, I do take your chart as universal. From my experience I can not define "edge" in music. Is "edge" in jazz the same as "edge" in country? Or ambient? Or rock? ETC. I think not.
I hear it when you say you cannot define "edge", message recieved. Clearly I can and I did.
But with some effort I'd guess you too can define it. Gather a pad of paper, a pencil and an eraser and sit down at your table and just think about what musical edge means to you. If you feel there are different definitions for different genres, then go for it; produce your different definitions.
You even have a head start from reading my list where a 0 "is baby-butt-smooth" and a 10 is "rip your face off ragged".
And I take no offence whatsoever if you consider my table "universal". Although my intent was to give PGMusic ideas, the fact that you consider it universal is actually a compliment
In my mind the intent here is to help PGMusic give us useful style custumization features. Thanks to shlind, this important style attribute has been brought to our attention.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Maybe I missed this in the thread, but there's already a StylePicker option to sort by genre "intensity" score of 0-100, where 0 = calm and 100 = heavy metal. Go to the "Other" pull down menu. Don't use it myself but there are other related discussions on this forum.
I'll go back to sleep now...
Last edited by DC Ron; 12/14/2506:46 AM.
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
I have been doing some thinking about this and I believe I have found MY problem. First yes I can define "edge" in a song. I also believe that definition varies with each individual and each song. That is what I have been trying to say. Part of my problem starts with your chart. I totally agree with your Edge Score and your Descriptor. It is your Instrument and Performance Traits I have a problem with. IMO they are based only on your perspective while mine and others may be different. For instance a jazz song with a growling sax could fit #6-10 and not have distorted feedback-laden guitar, power chords, relentless crashing cymbals, etc.
If you would have left that part out I would have agreed 100%. Like I said I do agree with the first two columns of your chart and you did a great job on those two. YMMV
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal". Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Maybe I missed this in the thread, but there's already a StylePicker option to sort by genre "intensity" score of 0-100, where 0 = calm and 100 = heavy metal. Go to the "Other" pull down menu. Don't use it myself but there are other related discussions on this forum.
This is all well and good except we're not talking about sorting genres.
Rather, were talking about how an Edge knob, slider or some other interface element would tweek the level of edge in a specific style.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Maybe I missed this in the thread, but there's already a StylePicker option to sort by genre "intensity" score of 0-100, where 0 = calm and 100 = heavy metal. Go to the "Other" pull down menu. Don't use it myself but there are other related discussions on this forum.
This is all well and good except we're not talking about sorting genres.
Rather, were talking about how an Edge knob, slider or some other interface element would tweek the level of edge in a specific style.
Got it. I only intended to convey that the concept of "Edge" may have already been defined by PGMusic as "intensity" and could be observed in the StylePicker. There is also a discussion somewhere in the forum on how PGMusic defined "intensity", which was part of this post as well.
Signing off again...
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
I have been doing some thinking about this and I believe I have found MY problem. First yes I can define "edge" in a song. I also believe that definition varies with each individual and each song. That is what I have been trying to say. Part of my problem starts with your chart. I totally agree with your Edge Score and your Descriptor. It is your Instrument and Performance Traits I have a problem with. IMO they are based only on your perspective while mine and others may be different. For instance a jazz song with a growling sax could fit #6-10 and not have distorted feedback-laden guitar, power chords, relentless crashing cymbals, etc.
If you would have left that part out I would have agreed 100%. Like I said I do agree with the first two columns of your chart and you did a great job on those two. YMMV
Ahhh, I now get what you've been trying to say and I agree. No doubt, because music is such a personal thing, one person's definition of edge may not fully align with someone else's. Of course, my table is my table, meaning it tries to capture my view on edge. If you have a different view of what "edge" means, great!
The point of the table is to "move the ball down the field"; to hopefully end up with a stronger music creation software tool. A tool that your nursing home muscians would adopt. I'm sure PGMusic can figure out how to label such a user-adjustable element so that it would have maximum applicability across its user base.
The real challenge, requiring real brains, is how do you create a software subroutine that can implement my table (or something like my table) so that you can increase the edge of a given style, level by level without destroying the underlying feeling and groove of the style you're operating on. This requires a deep understanding of musical arrangement, software coding and "edge". But I do believe it's possible and would be profitable.
I wonder if there are Suno or other 100% AI music tool users that can comment if their tools can accomplish this. I know that traditional programming and AI are apples and oranges but if an AI tool can do this, that might be inspirational to the traditional programmers.
And never underestimate the old-school power of a pad of paper and a pencil; whiteboards are also useful
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Maybe I missed this in the thread, but there's already a StylePicker option to sort by genre "intensity" score of 0-100, where 0 = calm and 100 = heavy metal. Go to the "Other" pull down menu. Don't use it myself but there are other related discussions on this forum.
This is all well and good except we're not talking about sorting genres.
Rather, were talking about how an Edge knob, slider or some other interface element would tweek the level of edge in a specific style.
That isn't sorting genres, it's sorting the genre intensity. Lower values more relaxed, higher values more intense. I believe the value relates to the 'intensity' interpretation within a genre, so an intense folk tune would score higher that a heavy metal ballad.
At least that's as I understand it. I find PGM's explanations a bit vague on this, but I do think it may be worth trying for what's wanted.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
"A. We've introduced a new variable for this – called "Genre Score". That describes a style by a simple number from 1 to 100. This "genre score" works as follows: "quiet, classical, acoustic, jazz, folk" would have low genre scores (1 to 30) "loud, aggressive, heavy rock" have high genre scores (80-100), and light-medium pop would have mid-range genre scores. So, if you're looking for a quiet "living room" type style, use the StylePicker filter to only show styles with a genre score less than 40 – that might show jazz, classical, folk or other quiet-acoustic styles."
From this, I'd interpret that a quiet folk song might be 1, and a loud one would be 30. So a loud folk song would never be more "intense" than a heavy rock song, or even a medium pop song, for that matter. Haven't actually looked myself. Just remember reading SOMETHING and THINK it must have been this quoted post.
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
From this, I'd interpret that a quiet folk song might be 1, and a loud one would be 30. So a loud folk song would never be more "intense" than a heavy rock song, or even a medium pop song, for that matter. Haven't actually looked myself. Just remember reading SOMETHING and THINK it must have been this quoted post.
Thanks Ron, I searched this in BiaB and found it. It's called "Intensity". But this is not what we are talking about here. First, the concept of "Intensity" may not be equivalent to the concept of "Edge". But more importantly is that it appears that you can only filter (or sort) the styles on Intensity. If this is not true, then show us how to change the Intensity from 15 to 70 for the Slip Jig from Cork with Piano style?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
I've never used "intensity", only intended to note that it MAY be related to "edge" and that it already exists in BiaB.
That being said, it does not appear based on Andrew's description, that an intensity value can ever exceed the range for that genre. That is, ALL folks songs are between 1 and 30, with 30 being the max, and there can never be a style with an intensity of 15 (folk+) going to 70 (pop+) since that crosses genre ranges.
I could be completely wrong, just trying to be helpful.
Last edited by DC Ron; 12/16/2506:38 AM.
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Going back to the complexity I think PG needs to look at the help they provide as part of the program. There are tons of videos and articles on the web site but there isn't a really good video series of how to build up a song using the main features. I find it to be a lot like Cubase in its complexity due to the number of features. I find sometimes just the thought of trying to remember everything and spending time looking up features really is a barrier to making music. At least with Cubase I can purchase any number of video tutorials to take you through all of the features. I think Henry Clarks approach is the closest thing out there. Maybe I am just getting old and do not have the energy or stamina I used to, however I think my attention span is still longer than most of the young people today getting into music.
...Maybe I am just getting old and do not have the energy or stamina I used to, however I think my attention span is still longer than most of the young people today getting into music.
Ha! Funny and almost certainly true.
The question being asked is, "Why did you spend so much time making music with BiaB when you could just have Suno (or your AI of choice) do it SO MUCH FASTER?"
That those without the skill, time and/or attention span to learn and engage in actually MAKING music can just have AI do it (with often excellent results, I might add) is no doubt intoxicating. I get it.
I agree that BiaB needs to level the complexity of BiaB against the cutting edge music-making tools that are so commonly (and cheaply) available...
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Going back to the complexity I think PG needs to look at the help they provide as part of the program. There are tons of videos and articles on the web site but there isn't a really good video series of how to build up a song using the main features.
Agree. Personally I've found Henry Clarke's YouTube channel more helpful in that aspect. They'll most or all be the pre-2026 GUI of course. They don't suit everyone,but do suit many.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Henry continues to deliver some amazing material. He is an accomplished musician and producer, and in the background he is a great ambassador to PGM's products.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
I just came across this thread. I want to add my two-cents to the original post by MarioD. I totally agree with the two musicians. I'd like to share my experience. I want to love BIAB. I want to use it to make backing tracks. But so far, that's not happening.
I have upgraded BIAB a number of times, each time being enticed by new features, I think surely I can make it work. With each new version (2018, 2020, 2023 and 2024) I jump into it, spend way too much time googling how to... searching this forum, etc. and eventually giving up. I keep trying because I know the capability is there. So many of you are doing amazing things with it.
I have tried the real tracks, the midi, the super tracks, and a mixture of both, just couldn't get it to do anything useful (for me). Spending so much time going down rabbit holes, led me to abandon every project I started.
I used to use Finale extensively, since I read music. It was super time-consuming, but at least I could enter notes in a format I understood. It was fairly simple to find help online and the help within the program was excellent, as well. I once did a full orchestration of an original composition, used the GM midi sounds, transferred it to audio, burned to a CD and my choir sang to it! Finale was not great for audio, though. Years ago, I tried BIAB. (Maybe 2012?) It seemed cool, but I couldn't figure anything out, so it went to the back burner (way back!).
I finally tried using a daw, starting in 2020. I tried Reaper. I had no experience and it was super confusing in the beginning. It, too, has a ton of options. But there are so many resources to get help. I could find out multiple ways of doing just about anything in a matter of minutes, through both videos and their forum. I did a project for my choir, mostly using existing audio and adding some midi tracks to enhance it. And I've also used the program to "recover" some choir tracks that we only had on cassette, cleaning up the audio and burning to CD. I feel like I understand the program and how do set up a project, and bring it to completion.
I sing and accompany myself on a keyboard (just "piano" sound). I still haven't tried to perform with a backing track. That will be another whole learning curve, if I make any tracks I'm happy with. Sometimes simple is better! But it is my eventual goal to branch out and trying playing along with some "extra instruments."
So here I am back for another shot at it. I just bought 2026, when I saw that the interface has actually changed for the better (in my opinion). There's more vertical screen real estate, with most things being moved to the side. It's so much more intuitive! So here I am trying again.
I know that with any new program, it takes time to learn how to get around. I'm hopeful with the easier interface that I'll actually make headway! I believe once I have a somewhat successful project, I'll be on a roll. But, yeah, I agree that it's complicated!
Thank you for the discussion of "Edge" in music; triggered a Google AI Mode query resulting in the following multi-faceted result.
Question: What does "having an Edge" mean in context of music composition in any particular genre
Answer: In music composition, "having an edge" typically refers to qualities of intensity, unconventionality, or a sharp, penetrating sonic character. Depending on the context, it can describe technical timbre, emotional tone, or stylistic rebellion.
General Compositional Meanings Abrasiveness and Intensity: An "edge" often implies a bold, provocative, or intense quality that pushes boundaries through darker themes or abrasive sounds. Sonic Brightness: In orchestration, it refers to a brilliant or "cutting" sound that allows an instrument to be heard clearly above an ensemble. Vocal Character: "Edge" in a voice can refer to a tone that is authoritative and powerful, often created by increased vocal cord closure that makes the sound "vibrate" and carry better. Structural Start: In formal conducting, "starting at the edge" (or "the top") means beginning at the very start of the piece.
Genre-Specific Interpretations Rock and Metal: It is frequently associated with an "anti-establishment" or rebellious spirit. Compositionally, this is achieved through high volume, distorted guitars, and aggressive vocal timbres. Electronic and Pop: It can refer to a "bluesy" or "gritty" quality added to a track. In modern pop, it often involves a producer’s ability to sculpt unique sounds or mix disparate styles (e.g., trap beats in a country ballad) to stand out from "fast content". Jazz and Experimental: In jazz, "edge" might be the "fiery" energy of a solo compared to more subdued "cool" jazz styles. In experimental music, it refers to compositions that are "out there," using complex modes like harmonic minor or superlocrian to create a challenging listening experience.
Techniques to Create "Edge" Dissonance and Complexity: Using non-traditional chord progressions or counter-melodies to add depth and tension. Dynamic Contrast: Shifting rapidly between major and minor tonalities or quiet and loud sections to create emotional impact. Unconventional Structure: Moving away from standard song forms by introducing entirely new musical ideas in bridges or using rhythmic variation to keep the listener off-balance.
As a student of composition, the Genre-Specific Interpretations of Electronic & Pop as well as Jazz & Experimental resonate.
Cheers, Mike.
BiaB 2026 UltraPak, Cubase Pro 15, Ableton Live 12, NI Komplete 15 Ultimate. Yamaha P515, Yamaha Montage M, Yamaha Tyros 5, Komplete Kontrol S49 MKII, Maschine MKII, Electric Guitars/Bass/Violin Windows 11 Pro, i7, 64GB RAM, 6TB SSD.
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Tablature now includes a “Save bends when saving XML” option for improved compatibility with PG Music tools. Plus, you can instantly match all track heights with a simple Ctrl-release after resizing, and Add2 chords from MGU/SGU files are now fully supported... and more!
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
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Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
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