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#872402 12/10/25 05:32 PM
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FYI - I was at a nursing home Christmas party today, my aunt is a resident there. A duo was playing Christmas songs and tunes from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Two guys, one on a trumpet and flugelhorn and the other on a trombone. Both sang and played to backing tracks. After the gig I talked to them and asked what they were using for the backing tracks.They said iPro. I said I use Band-in-a-Box and their response was " that is to complicated".

I thought that was an interesting comment from two musicians. It was not about how dated the program looked but how complicated it was to create a song was using BiaB. That was their impression of BiaB.


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Over many decades I’ve talked to other musicians about BIAB. I usually hear that they tried it and didn’t like the sound quality (from bad MIDI synths, never the fault of BIAB, and amazingly improved by RealTracks) but they didn’t try again, unless I demo it for them. That also quickly alleviates any doubts about how hard it first appears to be to learn. We musicians need to be evangelists.


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I have often wondered how every year introducing 50+ new features - sometime twice yearly - might have made the program unwieldy to many. Let's see? 20 years of 50 new features adds 1000 new features, most of which potentially many users don't want, use or need. I think that model is a contributing factor to the suggestion that the program is complicated.

This year may be different because there are more feature improvements than new features. And that is something that many users have been begging for for a long time.


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I think the RealTracks sound very good but at the same time I have a feeling that there is something missing from them. I can't describe what I mean but I mostly get the feeling that it is not really right. It is like there is a level of "Edge" that is missing but I can't describe it.

I also think a major problem for new users are "How to find what they are looking for".
(even very experienced users have big issues with this).


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Originally Posted by shlind

I also think a major problem for new users are "How to find what they are looking for".
(even very experienced users have big issues with this).
I agree with this. It should be the next area for innovation. The ability to find RealTracks and Styles to match a song or sound could be improved.


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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
Originally Posted by shlind

I also think a major problem for new users are "How to find what they are looking for".
(even very experienced users have big issues with this).
I agree with this. It should be the next area for innovation. The ability to find RealTracks and Styles to match a song or sound could be improved.

Hi Matt and shlind. I found your comments so interesting. I too have trouble navigating the vast choices. But the filtering aspects of the unified picker seem to help greatly. What changes would you two propose to make things easier? I ask because I would love to be educated in better ways to search or understand how the process could be made better. Can you discuss this issue more? I think this is a really interesting issue.

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There are plenty of discussions and posts about this subject in the Wishlist thread.


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Originally Posted by Moonbeam9067
... Hi Matt and shlind. I found your comments so interesting. I too have trouble navigating the vast choices. But the filtering aspects of the unified picker seem to help greatly. What changes would you two propose to make things easier? I ask because I would love to be educated in better ways to search or understand how the process could be made better. Can you discuss this issue more? I think this is a really interesting issue.
User shlind is correct; there are many discussions already about this, some that you can see and many others that were suggested behind the scenes during testing, and even some specific proposals that have been submitted by a small group of experienced users.

One specific answer to your request for an example is that the Sort function of the style and RealTrack picker should support sub-sorting within categories. We should be able to sort by Genre (like Jazz) then, keeping only those jazz entries, sort that further by tempo, then keeping that result in that tempo order, sort by Even or Swing feel, etc. Something like that.

Another specific request is to give BIAB a recording and ask it to find a few RealTracks or Styles that closely resemble the audio sample. We speculate this might be a feature where AI could eventually assist. There are other audio programs already with this ability, such as finding a similar drum beat.

And you are correct, the Multipicker is a great improvement! We are just suggesting possible next steps to make it even better. I'm not saying any particular person made these suggestions; it's been a team effort for decades. I do have quite a few of my suggestions that have been implemented, and so do many other users, but we get the best results when ideas are debated and refined. The Wishlist Forum is a good place for this to occur. This year, PG Music opened up the process more for suggestions (which we appreciate), and they sure received them!

Does that help explain? There's a lot more to it ... there's always more.


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Originally Posted by shlind
I think the RealTracks sound very good but at the same time I have a feeling that there is something missing from them. I can't describe what I mean but I mostly get the feeling that it is not really right. It is like there is a level of "Edge" that is missing but I can't describe it.

I also think a major problem for new users are "How to find what they are looking for".
(even very experienced users have big issues with this).
I never thought of “edge” as being a constraint in BiaB styles, but I think you are on to something.

What if each BiaB style had a user-selectable “Edge Score”? This would allow for much easier style exploration plus a higher fidelity of creative control over your song.

Don’t think your song is edgy enough? Just increase the Edge Score and audition 😊

This might even reduce the “need” for over 7,000 styles to just a dozen or two, thereby solving the “It’s too difficult to search thru thousands of styles” problem.

I know there are anti-AI, or at least AI-ignorant folks here, but AI should easily be able to adjust the edge of a style if trained properly.

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Originally Posted by Bass Thumper

What if each BiaB style had a user-selectable “Edge Score”? ...
I'm sure a slider for “Busier to Simpler” would likewise be welcomed.


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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
Originally Posted by Moonbeam9067
... Hi Matt and shlind. I found your comments so interesting. I too have trouble navigating the vast choices. But the filtering aspects of the unified picker seem to help greatly. What changes would you two propose to make things easier? I ask because I would love to be educated in better ways to search or understand how the process could be made better. Can you discuss this issue more? I think this is a really interesting issue.
User shlind is correct; there are many discussions already about this, some that you can see and many others that were suggested behind the scenes during testing, and even some specific proposals that have been submitted by a small group of experienced users.

One specific answer to your request for an example is that the Sort function of the style and RealTrack picker should support sub-sorting within categories. We should be able to sort by Genre (like Jazz) then, keeping only those jazz entries, sort that further by tempo, then keeping that result in that tempo order, sort by Even or Swing feel, etc. Something like that.

Another specific request is to give BIAB a recording and ask it to find a few RealTracks or Styles that closely resemble the audio sample. We speculate this might be a feature where AI could eventually assist. There are other audio programs already with this ability, such as finding a similar drum beat.

And you are correct, the Multipicker is a great improvement! We are just suggesting possible next steps to make it even better. I'm not saying any particular person made these suggestions; it's been a team effort for decades. I do have quite a few of my suggestions that have been implemented, and so do many other users, but we get the best results when ideas are debated and refined. The Wishlist Forum is a good place for this to occur. This year, PG Music opened up the process more for suggestions (which we appreciate), and they sure received them!

Does that help explain? There's a lot more to it ... there's always more.

Super helpful!!!

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Originally Posted by Bass Thumper
...I know there are anti-AI, or at least AI-ignorant folks here, but AI should easily be able to adjust the edge of a style if trained properly.

AI should ABSOLUTELY be used to enhance BiaB functionality in both search and stem generation, and probably more. Unfortunately (to me), the AI functions added to date have been bolt-ons only obliquely related to building a backing track. (I am obviously differentiating song deconstruction from backing track building, and biased to the latter)

We're in the dawn of a revolution in AI generated backing tracks, right?


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Originally Posted by Bass Thumper
I never thought of “edge” as being a constraint in BiaB styles, but I think you are on to something.

What if each BiaB style had a user-selectable “Edge Score”? This would allow for much easier style exploration plus a higher fidelity of creative control over your song.

Don’t think your song is edgy enough? Just increase the Edge Score and audition 😊

This might even reduce the “need” for over 7,000 styles to just a dozen or two, thereby solving the “It’s too difficult to search thru thousands of styles” problem.

I know there are anti-AI, or at least AI-ignorant folks here, but AI should easily be able to adjust the edge of a style if trained properly.

One question Bass Thumper, who defines Edge? Edge for you may be different than mine. If you asked100 people to define musical edge you probably get 100 different answers.

Using AI as a search tool for Styles, RTs, and RDs in BiaB IMHO is absolutely necessary.


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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
Originally Posted by Bass Thumper

What if each BiaB style had a user-selectable “Edge Score”? ...
I'm sure a slider for “Busier to Simpler” would likewise be welcomed.

If you put this on the wishlist you will get a +1 from me.


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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
................................
One specific answer to your request for an example is that the Sort function of the style and RealTrack picker should support sub-sorting within categories. We should be able to sort by Genre (like Jazz) then, keeping only those jazz entries, sort that further by tempo, then keeping that result in that tempo order, sort by Even or Swing feel, etc. Something like that.

That would get a Big +1 from me.

Originally Posted by Matt Finley
Another specific request is to give BIAB a recording and ask it to find a few RealTracks or Styles that closely resemble the audio sample. We speculate this might be a feature where AI could eventually assist. There are other audio programs already with this ability, such as finding a similar drum beat.

Another big +1 from me

Originally Posted by Matt Finley
And you are correct, the Multipicker is a great improvement! We are just suggesting possible next steps to make it even better. I'm not saying any particular person made these suggestions; it's been a team effort for decades. I do have quite a few of my suggestions that have been implemented, and so do many other users, but we get the best results when ideas are debated and refined. The Wishlist Forum is a good place for this to occur. This year, PG Music opened up the process more for suggestions (which we appreciate), and they sure received them!

Does that help explain? There's a lot more to it ... there's always more.

Yes PGM did one heck of a job posting different improvement categories in the wishlist forum and then listening to the suggestions that were made. I hope they repeat the process in 2026


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Originally Posted by MarioD
One question Bass Thumper, who defines Edge? Edge for you may be different than mine. If you asked100 people to define musical edge you probably get 100 different answers.

Exactly. Which reminds me of an old saying...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writing_about_music_is_like_dancing_about_architecture

And yes, I agree, the search function really needs a serious rethink. Hopefully for 2027


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Originally Posted by MarioD
One question Bass Thumper, who defines Edge?
That's slam dunk easy to answer . . . PGMusic.


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Originally Posted by Bass Thumper
Originally Posted by MarioD
One question Bass Thumper, who defines Edge?
That's slam dunk easy to answer . . . PGMusic.

I totally disagree. I don't think anyone or any company can universally define edge in music. Is it the groove? The lead instrument? The chord progression? A great bass line? Is edge the same for jazz as for blues, new age, ambient, country. folk, etc? IMHO Edge is to generic of a term for music.

I think the way PGM does it now with listing a song title and have BiaB select styles is the way to go. But as I and many others have said improvements must be made in that area. YMMV


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I have no idea how to define 'edge' for all genres. In jazz, I might say more edge is more use of chord substitutions, resulting in playing that sounds more 'outside'.


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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
I have no idea how to define 'edge' for all genres. In jazz, I might say more edge is more use of chord substitutions, resulting in playing that sounds more 'outside'.

I call Edge Playing as 'playing in the cracks' (but that's only me). Peter Nero could do it. Oscar could do it - well, Oscar could do anything. Dudley Moore could do it.

It's an interesting term. I think that there are lots of interpretations.


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