Hi, I recently upgraded from BIAB 2022 to 2026, both WIN.
I found that songs created and played for years on v 2022 without any MIDI tracks have no lead-in count-in when loaded and played in v 2026. The song just jumps in on the first bar of the song.
I have versions 2022 and 2026 running on separate screens simultaneously on the same computer and I have made as many of the preferences settings as exactly the same on 2026 as they are on 2022 with no success. MIDI settings, audio settings, synth settings, etc. are all the same on both. When I make an update of the settings on 2026 I close 2026 and re-start it and regenerate the song with no success. I can play the exact same song on 2022 and it immediately counts in. Then I'll try 2026 and there is no count-in. The song plays and sounds the same, the only difference is the lack of count-in.
MIDI drivers, audio drivers are exactly the same, same computer, same sound card (Soundblaster Audigy FX), no changes. The only change is the full fresh installation of v 2026 on a separate HD from 2022 with all 2026 files pointed to the HD location of 2026 (i:\bb) , not the 2022 directories (f:\bb) so there shouldn't be an issue of cross contamination. The only files that are common is the actual song file itself that is loaded directly from a common folder and played on both v 2022 and 2026.
I have reset the version 2026 back to the "factory settings" with no success. I'm tempted to copy the preferences file from 2022 over to the 2026 folder, but I'm concerned that would screw things up beyond repair.
I thought that perhaps the count-in relied on a MIDI drum, but I opened the song demo _ACCNTRY demo (all realtracks) and the count-in played successfully from the realtrack drum in the file, and I could see the count-in in the tracks window. When I open the song that I have been experimenting with that I had been using from 2022 in the tracks window of 2026 I can see the empty measure where the count-in should be at the beginning of the song, but no count-in beats on any of the realtracks, yet it plays the count-in just fine on 2022, but not on 2026.
No doubt I'm overlooking or missing some setting or something simple, but I'm at a brick wall after many hours of beating my head against that wall. Does anyone have any thoughts of what the problem might be?
Thanks in advance.
Update: I just now installed and ran the new build and that did not solve the problem.
UPDATE: Link to dropbox file download. File Dixie-Hoedown.SGU
I've just tried the _ACCNTRY style and I get a count-in but it is quite soft. I'll pass you post on to the development team.
Regards, --Noel
Thanks!
_ACCNTRY has the audible count-in on both of my versions, 2022 and 2026. I'll try to upload one of the files that doesn't work on 2026 so they can dissect it if needed.
UPDATE: Link to dropbox file download. File Dixie-Hoedown.SGU
As a fellow bluegrass player, I dug a little deeper into the lack of a drum lead in. I am running 2025, not 2026, and I do not have a drum lead in. I tried it using Coyote and then CoolSoft Virtual Midi (my normal go to one) and tried the using MME, ASIO and WAS with no change. I had no drum lead in at all.
Now what I did find, since I am familiar with most of the bluegrass RT styles, was to load the 3 similar styles, _BG_BDFS (Fiddle Solo), _BG_BDGS (Guitar Solo) and _BG_BDMS (Mandolin Solo) and none of those 3 related styles gave me a drum lead in. I am wondering if that is the way they were designed.
What I have come up with is this:
1. If the style has a MIDI Drum Track (Yellow), I get a MIDI count in like normal. 2. If the style has a RT Drum Track (Green), I get a Real Track count in like normal. 3. If the style has a RT Instrument Track (Green) populating what would normally be the drum track, I DO NOT get a lead in.
I tried about 20 styles and those fitting the description of either #1 or #2, I get a normal drum lead in.
However I did find many bluegrass styles where the drum track fits the description of #3, where I do not get a drum lead in. Styles _BG_BDFS (Fiddle Solo), _BG_BDGS (Guitar Solo) and _BG_BDMS (Mandolin Solo) have an instrument populating the drum track and I am figuring that is why I do not get a drum lead in.
Here are a few more I found that have other instruments populating the drum track and I get no drum lead in. I am sure there are more.
Try some of the styles listed above and let us know if you either get a drum lead in or not. I tested these using my own songs and also with the provided demo song, with the same results.
BIAB2026 Windows 10 Pro (Never Windows 11!) WA6NCB
Yes indeed the plot thickens. I am running 2025 build 1128 64bit and even after returning to Factory Defaults, I DO NOT get a count in using this style since I am seeing that what would normally be the drum track, is populated with a Banjo (RT set #3794)
I then went to Track Actions and deleted the Banjo RT. The result was that the track was automatically populated by the standard MIDI drum track and now it plays a drum lead in normally and obviously without the banjo RT. The just reinforces what I observed in action #3 in my previously reply that for me, if the style has a RT Instrument Track (Green) populating what would normally be the drum track I won't get a count in drum track. So there indeed is a difference in what you get with BIAB2022 and what I get with BIAB2025 using the same style and demo track. Strange.
I would invite other members to do a test for us and post the results.
1. Load up style _BGBDBS8.STY, if you have it, and it's associated demo song.
2. Generate the song and see if you get the same results as BluegrassPicker. His results using 2022 is he gets a lead in count and using 2026 he does not get a lead in count. We know it works fine for him using BIAB2022 so please do this test using BIAB2026
3. Post your results.
Keep in mind that I am using 2025 and the results are the SAME for me, I get no lead in count.
So I would summarize that somehow the ability to get a lead in count in, when the drum track is populated with a RealTrack, was lost between versions 2022 and in my case 2025 and in BluegrassPicker's case 2026.
2022 Works, 2025 Does Not Work and 2026 Does Not Work.
See the attachments.
Phew!
Last edited by Joseph Land; 12/30/2505:08 AM.
BIAB2026 Windows 10 Pro (Never Windows 11!) WA6NCB
I fired up BIAB 2024, which I saved on a Hard Drive before upgrading and the results are the same as what BluegrassPicker is getting with 2026 and what I am getting from 2025.
There is no count in using BIAB 2024 either but BluegrassPicker IS getting a count in using 2022.
I think I might have 2022 and 2023 versions still installed on 2 other spare Hard Drives and will check to try and narrow it down.
As you can see, I never throw away a good mechanical hard drive.
BIAB2026 Windows 10 Pro (Never Windows 11!) WA6NCB
1. Just fired up BIAB 2022 and I get the drum lead in. No problems 2. Upgraded BIAB 2022 to BIAB 2023 and I get the drum lead in. No problems 3. Upgraded BIAB 2023 to BIAB 2024 and I DO NOT get the drum lead in.
There in lies the problem folks.
So to summarize the findings
1. 2022 works. 2. 2023 works. 3. 2024 does not work. 4. 2025 does not work. 6. 2026 does not work.
PG Music needs to find out what they did between BIAB 2023 and BIAB 2024 to find out why there is no drum lead in IF the drum track is populated with a RealTrack.
During the testing I used all the standard default settings when installing the versions.
Last edited by Joseph Land; 12/30/2506:19 AM.
BIAB2026 Windows 10 Pro (Never Windows 11!) WA6NCB
To make the plot even thicker, I did some more testing this morning.
In 2026, on the styles that have a different instrument other than drums on the track which is "normally" a drum track, if I make no changes in the style but MUTE the track with the red M button, I get a normal count-in with what sounds like a midi drum....
In 2026 when I changed the style to _GRINNER.STY which has realdrums in the drum track and not a different instrument I get the count-in, without muting the track.
In 2022, no mute is necessary.
I posted my count-in/metro settings for both versions. I have experimented with the various settings in 2026 and no changes seem to affect the situation.
I get the same thing. That just reinforces my theory that if the Drum track has anything other then either a MIDI drum or a RealTrack drum then the count in disappears and there is no way that I can see to get it back as long as your are using a version later than BIAB 2022. The count in has been either taken out or is muted.
Just out of curiosity, I loaded _Bonfire.sty which is a folksy swing pop style and it has the following RealDrum in it.
RealDrums in style:MotownFunkyTriplets^3-a: Snare, HiHat , b: ShuffleRide, Snare
I then deleted the RealDrum and put in at random, Pedal Steel, Background Hank Sw 120 and when I generated the song, there is no Lead In but I do get really nice pedal steel on the new drum track. And if mute the drum track with the Pedal Steel and re-generate the song, I can hear the lead in.
So there you go.
Case closed.
BIAB2026 Windows 10 Pro (Never Windows 11!) WA6NCB
I don't think it is a problem, rather a program change in 2024 that muted the count in if there is something other then a midi drum or a RT drum there to begin with.
And it is not particular to a bluegrass style. The problem appears to be in any style that meets that criteria.
BIAB2026 Windows 10 Pro (Never Windows 11!) WA6NCB
I don't think it is a problem, rather a program change in 2024 that muted the count in if there is something other then a midi drum or a RT drum there to begin with.
And it is not particular to a bluegrass style. The problem appears to be in any style that meets that criteria.
Looks like I'll be forced to using my old 2022 version until the problem is fixed by PG for the 2026 version. It's extremely awkward to say the least to have to silently anticipate the count-in and then try to jump in at the exact moment that the song begins in bar #1. By then that throws me off and it takes a couple of bars to catch up, especially if it's a smokin' fast BG tune. I'm not seeing any kind of a work-around solution other than to manipulate the "drum track" in one way or another for each song and that can turn out to be a PIA.
I don't do this kind of work in BiaB so these may or may not work. What happens if you move the drum track with an instrument to another track, say a utility track, then add a MIDI or RT drum track? Or can you add a drum track on an utility track?
It is weird that PGM would put an instrument on the drum track as usually drum tracks are only for drums. At least that is true on all of my other music software.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Here is the workaround. You will have to move the RealTrack populating the Drum Track using the Track Actions pull-down and then the Copy/Move Tracks.
Unfreeze your song first and since it will have to re-generate, it will take a little time since your song is set to 30 choruses.
Make sure you MOVE and not COPY the track. Once it is moved, you should be able to hear the count in just fine. By default it looks like it will automatically choose Utility#1 as the destination.
If successful, you should see the drum track turn to grey and the utility#1 track turn to orange (?)
Make sure you save the song if it work OK for you.
This frees up the drum track since the RT is no longer there so the MIDI drum count in will come through.
I saved the song and the re-opened and the changes were kept.
See screen shots 1,2, and 3
1 and 2 are the methods and 3 is the result. It seems to work just fine for me on the song you provided
Let me know if this works successfully.
Last edited by Joseph Land; 12/31/2501:25 PM.
BIAB2026 Windows 10 Pro (Never Windows 11!) WA6NCB
I don't do this kind of work in BiaB so these may or may not work. What happens if you move the drum track with an instrument to another track, say a utility track, then add a MIDI or RT drum track? Or can you add a drum track on an utility track?
It is weird that PGM would put an instrument on the drum track as usually drum tracks are only for drums. At least that is true on all of my other music software.
I don't know why they did this either. But keep in my that in BIAB 2022 and 2023, it worked even though another instrument was on the drum track. It stopped working once BIAB 2024 came out some something in the update killed the ability to hear a count in. It just took this long for some to comment on it. Since my main genre is Bluegrass, I actually knew this back when 2024 came out but it just did not bother me that much since I don't uses those related particular styles.
BIAB2026 Windows 10 Pro (Never Windows 11!) WA6NCB
Well it BIAB now did something entirely different. Followed the same steps as a recheck and the 2nd time around it created an Artist Track on both the Drum Track and the Utility Track, which of course is no good.
So I then went in and deleted the Artist track on the Drum Track and it reverted back to the Mandolin Realtack. The Utility track stayed the same. I then deleted the Mandolin Realtrack on the drum track and it turned grey and the Utility track stayed the same.
Man BIAB really screwed this one up back in 2024 and going forward. Anyways, I saved the file after doing a double deletion on the Drum Track after moving it to the Utilty #1 track and it seems to be working....for now.
I would think an easier way is to just pick a Bluegrass style and DOES NOT and a RealTrack in the drum slot.
BIAB2026 Windows 10 Pro (Never Windows 11!) WA6NCB
Is there a way to move the mando track down and expose the drum track and then save that as a new style? I've experimented with that but I haven't had any success due to my limited knowledge in that realm.
That is what I did. I moved it to Utility#1 track and then deleted the original Mandolin (Drum) track. I had to delete the track 2 times to get get of what was there.
You will have to move it using the instructions I just posted.
Read both of the posts.
Here is a link for your song file after performing the actions I outlined. See if this is what you are looking for.
That is what I did. I moved it to Utility#1 track and then deleted the original Mandolin (Drum) track. I had to delete the track 2 times to get get of what was there.
You will have to move it using the instructions I just posted.
Read both of the posts.
Here is a link for your song file after performing the actions I outlined. See if this is what you are looking for.
Yes, that worked perfectly, and much appreciated. I have a fair amount of songs that I routinely use for practice that I'm going to get to work on modifying.
What I was wondering is if that configuration of the instruments in the style (_BG_BDBS.STY) that is now in that DixieHoedown-3 song can be saved as a separate and new .STY style file with a completely different name than _BG_BDBS.STY that can then be loaded into another song other than DixieHoedown. That would enable the modification of other songs to be easier as a matter of loading the new .STY style into the particular song and then saving the song. Perhaps it would end up being about the same effort, or perhaps it's not doable I don't know. Anyhow it was just a thought, but I have no knowledge of how to assemble and save a .STY file.
Joseph, my bad I spoke too soon. On closer examination of the DixieHoedown-3 file that you sent, in both my 2022 and 2026 the drums yellow track is present where the mando used to be and the Bass, Banjo, Guitar and Fiddle tracks are in their proper place, but there is nothing in the Utility#1 or any other track that has an mando audio. They're all empty, and there is no mando sound at all. Screenshot is attached. So, sorry about my previous erroneous post.
You can do the modifications on the style, then go into File - Style Maker - Edit The Current Style - Save As and then it becomes a User Style. You can then change the style in your songs to the new one and be done with it.
I have done it about 5 times in the past in order to add different RT's to the style. I do a Save As so I don't over write the factory supplied style. Most of the bluegrass songs I have point to one I made up to add a reso guitar to the existing mix.
BIAB2026 Windows 10 Pro (Never Windows 11!) WA6NCB
The work-around that Joseph Land suggested works for me and looks like a good solution. Perhaps PG Music might come up with a program fix in some further updated build, but Joseph's work-around definitely enables the "missing" count-in.
Fixed - RealStyles with RealTracks on the Drums track (no RealDrums) would not play a count-in.
I just re-tried your SGU file, Dixie Hoedown I downloaded from Google Drive and the drum lead-in works perfectly even with the mandolin in the drum track.
Also tested style _BGBDBS8.STY and it's associated demo file and it works perfectly. I now get the lead-in even with the drum track populated with a RealTrack.
Joseph Land
BIAB2026 Windows 10 Pro (Never Windows 11!) WA6NCB
Joseph, thanks for testing that, and thanks for the reply. I haven't had time to test it after downloading the update so I tried it just now and it works on my computer, just as you said!!!
And thanks to the PG Music crew who worked on the update. Your efforts are appreciated.
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