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This is part of discussing theory. I never said a group of notes was not a chord. You quoted me. But again, three (or even 4) notes does not necessarily define a chord, Note the word define. You actually said in your example that what the bass plays helps define it .. Suddenly E-G is not a 'C' or Em but a Dsus .. That is what Mario and I have said multiple times ... Again, even more important in defining it is What key is the song? (in your last post you stated the key signature in your example, so I think you're getting closer) What were the chords before/after? Knowing those two things gets you a lot closer to truly defining the chord. In certain situations your example could be right or wrong (theoretically) as to how to define that 'C' (or Em) over D chord.
Last edited by rharv; Yesterday at 11:15 AM. Reason: clarity
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...................................................
My understanding is that any combination of 2 or more notes does form a chord.
In Western music theory, a chord is a group of notes played together for their harmonic consonance or dissonance.
--Wikipedia Technicality it takes three different notes to form a chord, from https://theoryandsound.com/chord-construction/ and years of music theory learning on my part. "Dyads A Dyad is a set of 2 notes. Technically, they are not considered chords by strict music theory definition (which is 3 or more different pitches), however they can imply the character of chords from the interval between the notes." Every time I hear the term "power chord" the hair stands up on the back of my neck! A 1 & 5 of a scale does not make a chord! Dumb guitarist 
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[quote=Bass Thumper]................................................... Every time I hear the term "power chord" the hair stands up on the back of my neck! A 1 & 5 of a scale does not make a chord! Dumb guitarist The 1 - 5 intervals actually does have three notes. A power chord is a simplified version of a full chord, using only two notes: the root note and the fifth note from the corresponding scale...BUT the intermodulation of the perfect interval makes the spectrum of the sound expand in both directions, and with enough distortion, a new fundamental frequency component appears (essential a third note) an octave lower than the root note of the chord played without distortion, giving a richer, more bassy and more subjectively "powerful" sound than the undistorted. Just another dumb guitarist! :eek 
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A 1 & 5 of a scale does not make a chord! Dumb guitarist Power chords are useful because they are ambiguous, and only imply the chord. You can play an A5 for a A major or A minor, because they both work equally well/poorly. And they're typically played on the low guitar strings because... well, harmonics. It's not quite the same when a ukulele plays it - you can really tell something is missing.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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[quote=Bass Thumper]................................................... Every time I hear the term "power chord" the hair stands up on the back of my neck! A 1 & 5 of a scale does not make a chord! Dumb guitarist The 1 - 5 intervals actually does have three notes. A power chord is a simplified version of a full chord, using only two notes: the root note and the fifth note from the corresponding scale...BUT the intermodulation of the perfect interval makes the spectrum of the sound expand in both directions, and with enough distortion, a new fundamental frequency component appears (essential a third note) an octave lower than the root note of the chord played without distortion, giving a richer, more bassy and more subjectively "powerful" sound than the undistorted. Just another dumb guitarist! :eek This dumb guitarist is sticking by the "strict music theory definition" of a chord. {edit} IMHO calling just two notes a chord is just as bad as Fender calling tremolo vibrato and visa versa. I'm not trying to start a war between friends but even real 3 note chords have harmonics and we don't call them anything but triads do we. I say this in all due respect to you Dr. Dan.
Last edited by MarioD; Yesterday at 05:37 PM.
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A 1 & 5 of a scale does not make a chord! Dumb guitarist Power chords are useful because they are ambiguous, and only imply the chord. You can play an A5 for a A major or A minor, because they both work equally well/poorly. And they're typically played on the low guitar strings because... well, harmonics. It's not quite the same when a ukulele plays it - you can really tell something is missing. Yes, I fully understand this but I was taught and I still believe the "strict music theory definition" of a chord. I have played Dyads many times and yes I have called them the false power chord nomenclature. I have to as if I said Dyad to most guitarist I would get the deer in the headlights look!
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Also, in BassThumper's example of the Dsus2 chord; depending on the chords around it, it could be an A7/D (implying the root and third) .. actually likely in some scenarios
So it's still a bit 'ambiguous' without the other information (chords around it)
As for power chords; it usually is 3 notes; root, 5th and octave above root! <grin>
/sorry, had to for the lulz
Last edited by rharv; Yesterday at 07:13 PM.
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Yes, I fully understand this but I was taught and I still believe the "strict music theory definition" of a chord. I agree. Despite the name, they're not chords. In the category of implied chords, it's sufficient in pop and jazz for the guitarist to play the root, third and seventh of the chord. That's because unlike ambiguous voicings, the third makes it enough to determine the chord type (major or minor) and the seventh the harmonic function. Heck, you can even just play the third and seventh, if you've got a bass player on the root. The implication is that the fifth is a perfect fifth, of course.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Hmmm, this is getting interesting. FWIW according to Adam Neeley Simply put, musical chords are two or more notes played together harmoniously. While you can play any chord on your musical instrument, not all of them will result in a melodic rhythm and could leave you with dissonance.A dyad is a two-note chord that’s commonly referred to as an interval. Dyads refer to the variation of two pitches, and they’re measured half steps.As usual, his video is informative. What is a chord? I'm just a student of music and the bass and would like to know what the truthful/music theory answer to this is. The definition of a chord seems quite fundamental to me. Why the controversy?
Last edited by Bass Thumper; 7 hours ago.
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Hmmm, this is getting interesting. FWIW according to Adam Neeley Simply put, musical chords are two or more notes played together harmoniously. While you can play any chord on your musical instrument, not all of them will result in a melodic rhythm and could leave you with dissonance.A dyad is a two-note chord that’s commonly referred to as an interval. Dyads refer to the variation of two pitches, and they’re measured half steps.As usual, his video is informative. What is a chord? I'm just a student of music and the bass and would like to know what the truthful/music theory answer to this is. The definition of a chord seems quite fundamental to me. Why the controversy? Because somebody called two notes played simultaneously a chord but based on music theory that has been taught for years it takes three or more notes to form a chord. https://www.musicpandit.com/resources/articles/chords/
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IMHO If two notes are a chord, that chord is pretty ambiguous.
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I'm just a student of music and the bass and would like to know what the truthful/music theory answer to this is.
The definition of a chord seems quite fundamental to me. Why the controversy? Because not everyone agrees on definitions, and things change over time. Music theory that doesn't represent actual practice isn't that useful, is it? A "two note chord" is generally not considered a chord, because it's an interval, and can only imply a full chord. But if you live in a world where that ambiguity is considered a feature and want to treat a power chord as a chord despite the missing 3rd, that's fine. After all, there are plenty of "real" chords - diminished chords, I'm looking at you - that are still ambiguous but accepted as chords. People use power chords every day, without wanting to add the 3rd in, and don't consider it missing. The overtone series will cause a major 3rd to be created via sympathetic vibrations anyway.  So if you want to call it a chord, fine. Just be aware that's not the definition accepted by most people, and don't lose any sleep over it.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Because somebody called two notes played simultaneously a chord but based on music theory that has been taught for years it takes three or more notes to form a chord. Mario, David and rharv, with all due respect I must cast my lot with Adam Neely, Wikipedia and Dr Dan unless proven otherwise because it comes down to knowledge and trust. These 3 sources conclude that a chord is made up of 2 or more pitches. Adam Neeley chooses his words very carefully, is well-studied, is highly credentialed (Berklee College of Music and the Manhattan School of Music) and has lots to lose if he puts out bogus info. The guy is a music geek, and we need geeks! I’m unaware of anyone else on the internet in his lofty category. Do you? Wikipedia also has strong credentials, is fact-checked by experts worldwide, is thoughtfully edited and is trusted by millions around the world. Dr Dan is a smart guy too, I’ve never seen him give wrong info, and he chooses his words carefully. Although I don’t know his music credentials per-se, clearly he is well-studied in the subject. What these 3 sources recognize is that any music theory truth goes beyond and transcends what one was taught by a childhood music teacher, or what one was taught in high school, or what one’s personal opinions may or may not be or even less-than-accurate websites that are casually uploaded. Music theory is a well thought out and established set of principles that over time “get written in stone”. I think I can say this even though I’m a beginner student of the subject myself. Like I say, if someone can convincingly show credible evidence that a 2-pitch dyad can never be a chord, I’m all ears. Power chords (1-5) immediately come to mind. Keep in mind, I’m not saying that said chord must be pleasing to the ear, unambiguous, make geometric sense on a guitar fretboard or any other artificial restriction. If anyone disagrees, here is something to ponder. What “rule” in music theory prevents 2 pitches from being labeled a chord?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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IMHO If two notes are a chord, that chord is pretty ambiguous. rharv, I think you are finally beginning to get it (I think). Nobody is saying that every chord must be unambiguous for it to be labeled a chord, certainly not me. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if certain musicians/composers intentionally write ambiguous, discordant, unresolved chords into their music. I would say that ambiguous chords are every bit a chord as unambiguous ones. Think of it this way, just because an automobile fails your State inspection, doesn't mean that it's somehow not an automobile. In fact, that automobile could be on its roof in a gully and half rusted and still be an automobile.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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If anyone disagrees, here is something to ponder. What “rule” in music theory prevents 2 pitches from being labeled a chord? The "rule" is the definition, which makes a distinction between an interval/dyad and a chord/triad. But music theory always trails practice, and it's an oft-cited maxim that when a style or practice can be codified using music theory, that style is dead. It's also well known that much music theory that claims to capture the "rules" (like those of Bach's counterpoint) often is a list of that author's own biases, rather than an accurate model of actual practice. The crux of Neely's argument is that functionally, a power chord acts like a chord, even though it lacks a third. It provides enough harmonic information to act as a complete chord. He notes that it gains an audible third via distortion and harmonics, so the third is present even in the player didn't play the note. But it's more than that - he argues the term "chord" should describe how a chord behaves in practice, and not be bound by theory texts. The fact that we call it a "power chord" despite only being an interval supports this. So Neely - and others - argue for moving away from the classical definition because it doesn't reflect actual practice. But the classical definition still has value. Note that we aren't arguing for an interval like the perfect sixth to be treated as a chord. And in practice, power chords are almost always played on distorted guitars or basses. Neely agrees that it acoustically gains the "missing" third, which is why it can be treated as a chord. In short, Neely argues that if music theory doesn't represent common practice, it has little value. Yet he acknowledges that in practice, a power chord gains the "missing" third. And I think that somewhat undercuts the argument that a power chord is a dyad or interval.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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IMHO If two notes are a chord, that chord is pretty ambiguous. rharv, I think you are finally beginning to get it (I think). Nobody is saying that every chord must be unambiguous for it to be labeled a chord, certainly not me. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if certain musicians/composers intentionally write ambiguous, discordant, unresolved chords into their music. I would say that ambiguous chords are every bit a chord as unambiguous ones. Think of it this way, just because an automobile fails your State inspection, doesn't mean that it's somehow not an automobile. In fact, that automobile could be on its roof in a gully and half rusted and still be an automobile. Trust me I get it. You are starting down the theory road, my tracks in the sand ahead of you have been blown over for decades. But I still learn to this day. I chose to participate in this thread to learn what I could from it. I'm not arguing any of this, since it is theory and not a rule, and even rules can be broken. I spent years in college (and after) studying theory, arranging, composing etc tutored by some very knowledgeable people. Not Berklee, but UNT & UofM level. In fact I was raised with it since I could first learn. I did not get a choice of first instrument to learn; it was piano (at 5) so I could learn theory not just notes. I was lucky and got a head start on it compared to many. Music is kind of a big deal in my family <grin> My youngest brother is a PHD and has been asked to conduct/teach in Europe, Carnegie, etc Many years later we still discuss theory and learn from each other. That's what it's all about! Having some understanding of it definitely helps when discussing it, and he is not shy to correct me at times (and neither should anyone else be)
Last edited by rharv; 1 hour ago.
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Note that we aren't arguing for an interval like the perfect sixth to be treated as a chord. And in practice, power chords are almost always played on distorted guitars or basses. Neely agrees that it acoustically gains the "missing" third, which is why it can be treated as a chord.
. With all respect! Please forgive me for even mentioning this. I hate to bring it up, but I am a music nerd if nothing else! I actually tried to avoid this whole discussion because this general topic can drive people crazy (when it really should not). And I agree everyone has been very polite. But, as incorrectly indicated above, the 6th is not perfect. It is either major or minor. Only the unison, forth and fifth are perfect. And that point about "Neely agrees that it acoustically gains the missing third" does not make sense to me. Perhaps I should go back and hear again what he said. Now, regarding my credentials, I have three certificates from Berklee, two in Music Theory and one in Jazz Guitar performance. I have to admit, that fact, plus a buck, would get me a cup of coffee at McDonalds (with the Sr Discount). But I am proud of my studies. But again, more music nerd than academically trained.
Last edited by DrDan; 15 minutes ago.
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