Every time I try the ACW I seem to get a problem. it's operation really needs to be simplified.
Here's what I suggest. ... user presses a button that says I want to add tracks to an imported song In my case songs I've done in commercial Studios. .... ACW then analyzes the song.. and then does its thing .... after analysis the user then can add real tracks which sync up to the imported old song. .... optionally the ACW will split the old song into stems for remixing
Sorry but I just spent too many hours trying to do this ie using realtrax syncd up to an old imported song. Which I'm sure a lot of people would like to do
Om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/21/2606:02 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
No. JAOM suggests four elements to process. BIAB does all four without any bugs, missing components, or steps to sync imported audio with BIAB generated tracks. Posted in the BIAB for Windows rather than the Wishlist thread, these suggestions seem to be more from frustration, which is certainly reasonable, with OM spending hours without success.
There's nothing needing simplification in the Stem Splitter process. The process was updated in 2026 and now has little popup explanations throughout. It is a straightforward process.
Looking specifically to what OM was attempting; songs he's done in commercial Studios and splitting them out to stems and syncing them to RealTracks, I think he may have better and faster success doing this in RealBand. RB has an easy and manual click track feature that should work on his commercially created songs, recorded with or without a click track. It's simpler and more intuitive than using the BIAB ACW. The RB ACW may be more familiar and simple than the BIAB ACW if he decides it's necessary to use it. RB has the same stem splitter program and all of BIAB's RealTracks are accessible.
It would also be helpful to him and the forum in general, to post the how, why and what processes and techniques he spent hours on so many eyes can analyze and help streamline the process in a discussion in this thread.
I find the ACW won't even generate an accurate chord sheet. Whereas other software does with some minor changes. Try importing a song with chords in open special and you'll see what I mean.
If I'm confused I'm sure new users are very very confused. I think what is desperately needed is for PG to produce a detailed video showing how to add new tracks to Old Masters That are imported.
In summary the whole shebang needs simplifying. NoteI i have no complaints about the stem split functions great stuff.
I would like to suggest some additions to the stem splitter dialogue identifying the file to be split Maybe additional buttons for creation of chord sheet and also equalize tempo.
I won't even get into in the ACW setting bar lines I've wasted more than a few hours on that.
Maybe I'm just dumb lol.
Om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/22/2611:05 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
I can't comment on if you are dumb or not, but, I certainly agree with you that "... we have a problem". Unfortuantely, there is nothing new in what you are reporting. It has been raised to the highest levels, but few are willing to accept that fact.
Soooo is there software out there that will Allow updating of Old Masters with new tracks synchronized.
I tried again today and bb would not even create the chords from imported audio propaplly ...sigh. Other software will however. It's all too convoluted and complex..
Om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
Dan. Soooo is there software out there that will Allow updating of Old Masters with new tracks synchronized. Om
...that word "synchronized" is key!
Yes! Start with SMP - it will identify all the chords in your "old master". Along with the key, timing and tempo. It will create a Tempo map which will come in handy when you want to insert midi tracks. It will then separate out the individual instruments as audio tracks (stems). It will create midi block chords as a separate track. Afer you have all this content, copy and paste it all to your DAW. That was the easy part. Once you are in your DAW now the fun begins - production and mixing.
It looks like Dan has got you sorted with software that will accomplish what you want to do with your old master files. That's a good solution.
< Try importing a song with chords in open special and you'll see what I mean.> I did take time to do this and found nothing surprising. I was able to replicate your project and used the Open Special with an original song I recorded in a commercial studio in 1975 with a live band and recorded without a click track.
From the time I opened BIAB, imported the file, ran the ACW, analyzed the Chords, used the ACW to create a tempo map, Found a suitable Style and everything was complete and accurately synced in just a bit over six minutes. That's not a reflection of my skill but is a clear indication there's no issues with the ACW working correctly.
I've attached a screenshot showing how just ensuring the first four bars were precisely aligned and placed manually, allowed the ACW to set fairly accurate bar lines for the remainder of the song using the Auto Marking button and only a few adjustments throughout the remainder were necessary to create a good tempo map.
< "I find the ACW won't even generate an accurate chord sheet." coupled with "I won't even get into in the ACW setting bar lines I've wasted more than a few hours on that." > Accurate chord detection and analysis results depend very much on precise and correctly setting the bar lines.
Hopefully Dan's suggestions will get you quick results with your project.
Unfortunately I don't have time to look at these problems further due to upcoming medical appointments.
I really think someone or PG needs to do video on YouTube showing step by step how to do this.. ie adding PG content to an existing master recorded in a studio. What is smp ??
the very best to both of you
Om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
This tutorial will give you all the basic information for analyzing and chord detection any audio file. This will work with your master files just fine. It's separate from breaking your song into stems but it's an important step to become proficient in the total process. Note how he precisely and accurately adjusts and sets the first few bars of the song before selecting the auto marking. His method is an important step to making the process simple and faster.
.... perspective from a novice ... occasional BIAB user. Every year .... the new BIAB is here, with 200 plus realtacks or styles. Well whoop - tee - doo. .... and give the “more styles and realtracks " a break.
well, back to the ACW topic... I would Ike to see an updated ACW video overview/tutorial incorporating the latest upgrades and GUI improvements...
btw, every year, I look forward to all the new "realtracks" and "styles"... Thanks PGM ♫
ACW has been out for eight years. IMHO, it hasn't seen much improvement. Like all good software demos, they pick a song that works good with its current capability.
I did a deep dive on it this year, again just like I do every year, to see if it's improved. It essentially does two functions so we probably should talk at that level.
1) Tempo Mapping: - In the demo they just drop in a song and get a simple dialog and it drops it in per the physical size of the file. This is actually the best approach. You can also do it via the import process and it starts you up with a more complex window asking for locations in beats etc. That just tends to confuse people. - In the end you identify beat one and that starts the clock.
- The first problem I ran into was it assumes that you have downbeats on every bar. This may not be the case as the first song I was testing had chords that played for two bars. This throws the tempo mapping off from then on it gets a lttle awkward to try to fix it. - It does try to calculate a constant beat based on your first 2 to 3 manually marked downbeats. It appears to do this with pure math looking for an average. Often this results in all the automatic down beats being slightly off and the majority of them have to be manually set. (As a side note Z Plane the software it's using to detect tempo has the ability to analyze every transient pattern and do a more accurate tempo map automatically) PGM should adopt that new technology. - It also assumes that you're using the workflow of the demo: Tempo, Chords, Style. If you're already have a song laid out with a style and chords trying to bring in other tracks (like vocals) and get them to sync is nearly impossible and not recommended for the light hearted.
2) Chord Recognition: - Chord recognition is 100% dependent on how accurate your downbeats are. - For basic cowboy chords it does a decent job. When the product originally came out eight years ago there was two flavors of it and one of them had more control over the kind of chords it should be looking for and some basic rhythms of the chords. There is an area called settings I think But as buggy as it resets every time you open it up and doesn't seem to make much of a difference. This is another area of improvement.
It is usable with a lot of trial and error and a lot of patience, but in my opinion the whole workflow and accuracy needs to be improved since it's been around for eight years and the Z plane libraries have gotten better.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Jeff, thanks for this information... seems to me that PGM and their users would greatly benefit from more attention paid to this potentially very profitable feature...
It's a slow and frustrating process but it's not A.I. and, given that tempo and feel change often in most recording that aren't locked to a click or MIDI etc it's an acceptably tedious process. I use it when I have to - stuff from the 80s mostly when I had a drum machine with wandering speed/tempo - I've had success with it but had to "do the work". Chord recognition - well it depends on the clarity and accuracy of the chords played. Sometimes just using a split bass track is a good starting point for me.
Last edited by rayc; 01/23/2610:58 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Charlie thanks for the link I don't think I'm good enough re skills.
I agree with Ray I find it all a very tedious process.
Happiness
Om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
I don't know if this will help or just add more noise to the discussion.
I had a hard time figuring out how to effectively use ACW. Eventually I got to this point.
1. Be sure the project is set to 120 BPM regardless of the tempo of the song. 2. add your lines manually and use the equalize tempo assuming you know the actual tempo of the original song... or just guess.
Once I started with those 2 things, everything else kinda fell right into place. It's not very common now that I get myself painted into the proverbial corner and have to start over.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
"Om": I would like to try an experiment with the ACW to try to become more proficient with it. I've watched the PG Music instruction videos over the years, but have not taken the time to dig into making it work. I've also seen user feedback about it. "Om" - do you have an example MP3/WAV file that I could use as a starting point, to see how far I make it? If so, I'll give it a try and post my results to the forum.
Just a thought...
Originally Posted by justanoldmuso
Every time I try the ACW I seem to get a problem. it's operation really needs to be simplified.
Here's what I suggest. ... user presses a button that says I want to add tracks to an imported song In my case songs I've done in commercial Studios. .... ACW then analyzes the song.. and then does its thing .... after analysis the user then can add real tracks which sync up to the imported old song. .... optionally the ACW will split the old song into stems for remixing
Sorry but I just spent too many hours trying to do this ie using realtrax syncd up to an old imported song. Which I'm sure a lot of people would like to do
OM has indicated he would be out of touch for a couple days. I am sure he will offer up a file when he is back. But keep in mind he has a OMT (old master tape) he needs help with. Don't ask me how I know. Fact is I made the bold claim that this file could not be treated as needed in BIAB with the ACW. Again, don't ask me how I know. I hope he gets back soon so he can take you up on your generous offer. I have no objections to being proven wrong - it would not be the first time. There was one prior time back in the 90s.
... I have no objections to being proven wrong - it would not be the first time. There was one prior time back in the 90s.
You too? It happened to me once as well
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
OM has indicated he would be out of touch for a couple days. I am sure he will offer up a file when he is back. But keep in mind he has a OMT (old master tape) he needs help with. Don't ask me how I know. Fact is I made the bold claim that this file could not be treated as needed in BIAB with the ACW. Again, don't ask me how I know. I hope he gets back soon so he can take you up on your generous offer. I have no objections to being proven wrong - it would not be the first time. There was one prior time back in the 90s.
Yes, looking forward to understanding more about OM's situation with the ACW. The videos on usage seem straightforward.
DrDan - in general, what was it about OM's file that caused you to say it could not be treated as needed in BIAB with the ACW?
DrDan - in general, what was it about OM's file that caused you to say it could not be treated as needed in BIAB with the ACW?
I did a series of videos on how to process "old masters" using other tools (out of the box). I shared them with OM using his tracks. Since this is his music I don't feel I can comment any further without his consent. He will be back soon.
Just out of minor surgery. No problem, share away. Special thanks to Dan for all the work.
Om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
OM and I share a mutual frustration with the BIAB ACW. The only difference is that I long ago gave up on it. OM's original "old master" contains 2 Guitars and lead vocal (and harmony backing vocal). I added drums, bass and organ and remixed and remastered with camera rolling.
Thanks for the original to download. I've replicated Dan's version adding Bass, Drums and Organ mixed with OM's guitar stem and Vocal Track and created a second version using just OM's vocal track with a very different BIAB Style and RT Guitar for the solo section I chose to fit the lyrical story line.
Both versions were completed solely in BIAB.
With permission, I'll be glad to post these versions to the User Showcase.
Charlie, thanks for working through this exercise. I enjoyed listening to your productions. And rest assured I listened to them very closely. I have to admit, in regards to using the BIAB audio features (including the ACW) you are Mozart to my Salieri.
A big thank you to OM for starting the ball rolling. It was fun to work on this.
You guys are the best. Please give me a few days to recuperate from my recent surgery and then I'll comment further.
Just i find interesting is there anything in band in the box that would tune an existing track from an old master to new tracks from PG music's vast content that are in tune obviously
Once again you guys are fantastic every respect.
Om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
I am rested now so I feel like I can comment now. Surgery is very draining.
Regarding Charlie's download on User Showcase:
-I agree that they are different versions of the song. -I preferred the second version of the download because it retains the original motion of the song ie: more rockier. -Please could the bass and drums come in with the crazy intro lead after rhythm starts. -Charlie, I am amazed you got the vocals tuned to the backing instrumentation. How did you do this in BIAB? -Please feel free to disagree with me folks but I feel old songs like this one done on multi track tape are more challenging than songs done in the digital domain. -It would be nice to see a video of your steps Charlie regarding ACW from start. I feel it would be great for us confused users from newbies onward.
Great respect to everyone.
OM
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
OM, good to see you're feeling better. Glad your surgery went well. Hope you have a quick recovery. Thanks again for the opportunity to work on your song. It was fun. You and Dan laid the groundwork so most of the information was available to properly set up BIAB for the project.
Making two versions of the song wasn't intended to change the groove or anything, but to showcase that once a song is synced with BIAB, anything is possible including having the bass and drums come in with the crazy intro lead after rhythm starts had I known you wanted that arrangement. The second version was to follow the arrangement you and Dan had taken.
I used my guitar to manually determine the pitch of the imported audio. Then matched BIAB to the audio track by setting the non- transpose key signature to the pitch I had determined by ear and pressed the play button to play the song. This method allowed BIAB to see that pitch and link with it. Once linked, I set the proper key signature by regenerating the song and that transposed BIAB and the imported audio to the same pitch.
The lyrics were a hoot and offered endless directions to take the song musically. I found it ironic that your surgery was ongoing the same time as I'm hearing the antics going in an emergency room. Too funny.
Excuse my stupidity but could I have some clarification please.
So are you saying that old Tunes imported into BB can be tuned to the new backing instrumentation .?
Reason I'm asking is I have a few old songs done on tape that I would like to add new instrumentation to.
Respect Om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
OM, with the videos I showed and the tracks we produced was I not able to convince you that YOU can do anything you want in producing with the old tapes outside the box? If you stay in BIAB you will have to have Charlie do it for you.
That's a good question OM. Short answer, what Dan said. BIAB has some internal software that can do minor manipulating of audio, it isn't developed as a feature the same way specialized software like Isotope or Melodyne is to do that kind of repair. My goal and intent with your song was to run it successfully through the ACW and sync it with BIAB tracks. The tuning was incidental to that process just to help the sound a little.
Sorry if I'm just a doofus with the ACW. In my defense I'm on these meds that make me very very Dopey.
I very much appreciate what both of you have done.
One thing has been proved.. Its not bb its my fault...
I have about 10 old tape songs that I would love to update with new BB instrumentation.. keeping my vocals. Mainly adding bass and drums.
what's odd with these songs is people have told me the vibe is lost of the original each time I've tried to redo the old tape song . Same thing with white Corvette. People like the old grungy Vibe of white Corvette.... they've told me..... Once again great respect to both of you and your talents.
Om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Fact is I made the bold claim that this file could not be treated as needed in BIAB with the ACW. Again, don't ask me how I know. 
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