Your new multi‑view GUI is a great step forward, but it also exposes a deeper issue.
Transport‑based apps rely on one global transport model. In BIAB, every view behaves differently — looping, cursor position, and transport state all break apart. Until there’s one consistent standard across views, I can’t stay in the program long enough to build real workflows.
Please make this a priority, because a unified transport model would immediately improve usability for every customer. Thanks
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
It's mind boggling how the designers think this kind of behaviour is OK. I think this year's upgrade has been overall quite a good one but one of the things I hate is click/menu/click/click for things that should be a very simple single click. Unfortunately, 2026 has added a few more to the list.
Jeff, you have clearly articulated multiple shortcomings in the design that really do need to be resolved.
I hope that PGM Developers take action on these items as a matter of urgency. Thanks for your hard work and considerable efforts to not only improve the program, but to identify major shortcomings and make recommendations on how these should be resolved.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
The Good News: The changes to the GUI in v2026 were wonderful, and allowed us to "see" our BIAB music in a whole new way. Now with Jeffs illustrations we can now envision the obvious next steps needed. I hope PGM looks long and hard at this vision.
The Bad News: I am afraid these next steps may not get the priority they need. Fact is, some of us older guys don't have time to wait for yearly updates. So having these enhancement coming in a timely fashion would be much appreciated.
Stuff like this is why i have never completed a project with any kind of recording in BiaB. I have built many backing tracks but always move on because the underlying functionality is to complicated. I always have to dig around to find how to accomplish something that is that is basic functionality in any other software package. Peter, Andrew, if you are reading this please listen. This is at the very core of what is needed. If you want to really make BiaB a standard in more studios both home and professional, you need to clean these type things up.
What you did this year was epic in visual experience. But it truly exposes the core issues many of us have been talking about for years now. Standard DAW behavior.
Last edited by Rob Helms; Yesterday at06:31 AM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
It is like there have been several different software developers sitting isolated in different buildings with no communications between them and no overall design approach to follow.
If it was me and I thought I had all the necessary skills inhouse I still would have brought in some external GUI help to make a short audit of the software. Things like this would have come up on the table long long time ago. Now the users have to point it out again and again end even have to make videos to demonstrate the issues.
I really hope this will be fixed very soon, and I agree with the posts above it is a stopper! One only tends do the simplest work in BIAB and then move away as soon as possible.
BIAB 2026, Studio One 7 Pro, Song Master Pro, Win11 Home. i7-9700K CPU, 32GB, ESI MAYA44eX, ZOOM UAC-2, Guitar Pro 8, Transcribe, (EZKeys2, EZD3, SD3, EZBass, EZMix3) Amateur: fiddle, guitar, vocal, beginner on bass.
I always have to dig around to find how to accomplish something that is that is basic functionality in any other software package.
It's the software's biggest let down. It gets infuriating. I'm fine with using computers, software and hardware, very much above average and yet after 20 or more years, BIAB still drives me insane, so much that I just can't be bothered to do anything more than the basic stuff with it and just quickly move it to the DAW.
Even today I had a typical experience. Wanted to create a simple click / metronome over a backing. Everything turned into something problematic until I just give up with frustration. I know of no other software that I couldn't have done this in under one minute. Ended up discovering what I think is another bug while I was at it but had to give it in cos I couldn't take any more.
There’s no doubt about the industry standard for looping. It’s a single global toggle in the transport. The new BIAB GUI makes it clear how much users struggle with inconsistent behavior across views. Looping, and cursor position all change depending on where you are, and that breaks workflow. The existing Transport Loop icon could simply become a true global toggle that works the same in every view.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
+1 for everything the OP posted in that excellent video!
My perspective is similar and well known. I LOVE what I can get out of BIAB! It is way out beyond AWESOME! But I HATE using BIAB to mine for those audio diamonds! Or, at least, I used to! I have to say this 2026 update is the best thing PGM has ever done to improve the GUI and UX! After many hours of using this new version I find I am starting to actually enjoy using BIAB! Now, with that said, I still bail out of BIAB as quickly as possible and do all of my leveling, panning, mixing, fx, cuts/pastes, etc. in my DAW. And that is because of the very things the OP has illustrated. It is just not close to being complete for those advanced tasks to actually finish a song. And, before Charle F. (for whom I have immense respect) can jump in and point out that you can do everything inside BIAB including slopping the hogs and trimming the bushes, I get that some things CAN be done but they are so difficult and obtuse and unpredictable that I will not bother to even try when better tools exist that are quick and easy to use.
So, 2 main points...1) AWESOME work on the UX in 2026 and 2) LOTS left to do to really make the built-in functions and features accessible to average users!
+1 Jeff. 6 non-standard ways to do looping in BiaB??
Years ago when I was brand new to BiaB, I decided to listen to a piece of wisdom from Mario. He basically said build your tracks in BiaB and then get out of it as soon as possible and get into your DAW. I followed that advice, have avoided much heartburn, my DAW has a slam-dunk easy loop range capability and it has served me well for years.
Why anyone would want to swallow broken glass and loop within BiaB is beyond me. I'll pass on what Mario said . . . use BiaB for what it is good at and then jump to your DAW.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
...He basically said build your tracks in BiaB and then get out of it as soon as possible and get into your DAW...
Yes, and that's exactly the problem that needs fixing, not running from. If all of the functionality worked seamlessly, correctly, properly, there would be no need to go to a DAW. The O/P's post clearly identifies items that need fixing. There should be no need to go to a DAW.
Bottom line: I would rather have these functions work properly inside BIAB instead of having to take the song into another product to get it to completed. And that's what the O/P has demonstrated needs to occur.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
100% agree with the OP's excellent breakdown of looping disconnects. Can appreciate how fixing this could improve many workflows, but it would not improve mine as I never use looping in BiaB. Honestly, there are so many quirky features in BiaB, I've just learned to live with them, or work around them. And that's just for the 2% of BiaB I actually use.
If I were PG Music, I'd focus instead on an AI implementation for searching content and fixing stem generation so that features like "fix sour notes" are unnecessary.
Besides, BiaB will never be a DAW, and if it were, it would be RealBand...
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
100% agree with the OP's excellent breakdown of looping disconnects. Can appreciate how fixing this could improve many workflows, but it would not improve mine as I never use looping in BiaB. Honestly, there are so many quirky features in BiaB, I've just learned to live with them, or work around them. And that's just for the 2% of BiaB I actually use.
If I were PG Music, I'd focus instead on an AI implementation for searching content and fixing stem generation so that features like "fix sour notes" are unnecessary.
Besides, BiaB will never be a DAW, and if it were, it would be RealBand...
I think this is one of the problems that PG have to deal with. We all use it so differently. I use looping all the time but it's only one of many problems with inconsistency and the amount of times I am saying to myself "wtf!". Like the "Loop Selected" button. Apart from its strange implementation, what even is it? In anything other than the chord sheet it isn't "loop selected" at all, it's "loop the underlying bar". Things like this will have you wasting time until you realise it's just the PG way - do everything different from the norm but use the same terminology as all the others. You expect it do do something but it does something else.
There are just too many problems like this in so many areas of BiaB. The "2%" I use is mostly because I just can't be bothered with the remaining 98%. I tried, I get frustrated, I give up because I might spend way too much time trying to do something that should have been almost immediate.
AI? I have no interest and would like to see the word removed altogether from the software. Start with common sense categorising and filtering will solve half the problem with search. I do agree it will never be a DAW and I don't want it to be. I wish they'd spend their time concentrating on improving usability for what the software was intended for.
Even if it never will be a DAW the functions that are there need work in a consistent way otherwise they are useless and only cause confusions.
If I only could choose one fix I would also choose a fix to improve the search function it is far more important to me to be able to find what I am looking for in the huge content library.
BIAB 2026, Studio One 7 Pro, Song Master Pro, Win11 Home. i7-9700K CPU, 32GB, ESI MAYA44eX, ZOOM UAC-2, Guitar Pro 8, Transcribe, (EZKeys2, EZD3, SD3, EZBass, EZMix3) Amateur: fiddle, guitar, vocal, beginner on bass.
... If I were PG Music, I'd focus instead on an AI implementation for searching content and fixing stem generation so that features like "fix sour notes" are unnecessary. ...
That would appear to be something quite different from the subject matter in this particular thread. Please consider that perhaps those worthwhile ideas should be discussed in new, separate thread discussing those particular concerns?
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
... If I were PG Music, I'd focus instead on an AI implementation for searching content and fixing stem generation so that features like "fix sour notes" are unnecessary. ...
That would appear to be something quite different from the subject matter in this particular thread. Please consider that perhaps those worthwhile ideas should be discussed in new, separate thread discussing those particular concerns?
I have to respectfully disagree that the looping issue is a "matter of urgency" for developers. There are more pressing issues, and I am providing examples. Totally agree that this could be a separate thread.
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
DAWs loop recorded material along a fixed timeline. BIAB loops musical intent. BIAB offers multiple loop functions because looping serves different purposes; editing, practice, composing, teaching, and auditioning ideas, to name a few. Some loop modes are designed for exact repetition, while others may regenerate new material by design.
Identical playback on every loop is a DAW expectation, not a universal one. Band in a Box treats audio differently than any and every DAW in existence. BIAB is not a DAW and at some point the fundamental difference between generating and post editing functionality needs to be in your conversations.
Disagreement is part of fleshing out what the user base needs and not a problem. It helps PGM realize what it is going on out here. To me this is important. These things like looping are typical functions of any audio software. When working out a track even if you want to move it to a DAW is important in order to send over a complete working track.
I have said in the past if PGM took a year to completely fix many of the not quite done features and clean up functionality much like they cleaned up GUI this year they could position the software for the future. AI will work itself out as needed.
DC mentioned RB. It has been in the same boat for years, just short of being a true competitor to other DAWs. In the last two years it has come a long way. If PGM would add one new programmer to help Jeff Y. with RB and then focus on making BiaB respond to industry standards as Jeff Ps video details, they could have an incredible 1 - 2 punch.
Yes, i know there are many who do not like the RB idea and i understand why it does need attention, and PGMs reluctance to give that attention makes it hard to support. I am not suggesting that they slow down or inhibit BiaB progress but add some help to get where they need to be.
We all know the plugin after several years is still very lacking. The new Apps are a long way from really doing anything of great value. The flagship needs to be standardized, and the companion DAW needs to be FINISHED! What a package that could be. What was envisioned in 2008 when a marriage of BiaB and PTW conceived a Child.
The point of this is not to hijack Jeff's thread but to point out that completing things in the proper way help relieve user frustration.
Looping and a few other functions are important to take a hard look at how they work different from other software since many will come from those platforms and want to have a similar experience.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
Charlie as usual you make solid points, however while it is true that the looping often serves other purposes in BiaB, the click experience is still very confusing. There is strong evidence that some of the looping does not even work, it follows a line not an area. Sometimes it does not even loop at all it just ignores the selected area. These are not okay because it pushes people away from the product prematurely.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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