OK, lets try one more time. First do a return to factory settings (always first thing when BIAB does not do what it is supposed to do), Then set configurations in the following two screens. I think that is what the OP is looking for and I think it now works (for the most part) .
I can get it almost fully working with the selections I show below, (i.e., replace midi style with Real Style and/or just replace individual midi tracks with real tracks), but I still see things which just don't seem correct! some substituted RTs are blank and I don't know why (Bob, are you doing something unque to that piano track in your midi?). Let the buyer beware.
I'm not much of a RealTrack guy, I prefer the editability of the MIDI tracks. I just check to see that they are working with my efforts.
With MIDI I can export to a sequencer/DAW and change instruments, chord inversions, drum kits, drum instruments (for example, rimshot to clave), individual notes, and so on. Plus I can make my own intros/endings, change the groove, add song-specific figures and/or kicks, eliminate/change/remove drum rolls, and so much more.
For me, expression is much more important than tone, and I can manipulate MIDI files to get more or more personal expression out of the music.
That is exactly why I do most all of my work in MIDI. Occasionally I will use an RT or RD but 99.99% of my work is in MIDI.
Originally Posted by Notes Norton
But then, I like editing, not everybody does.
Same here. I much prefer MIDI editing over audio editing.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal". Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
<< It would be really nice if someone who has replaced a MIDI track with a RT in previous versions of BiaB would chime in, however maybe that person doesn't exist. >>
I've done this for years and using Note's test, RealTracks performed normally on my system.
<< In both of my tests the RTs did play and they played exactly what was shown in notation. BUT like you proved the audio tracks so not show in the tracks view. That happened in both of my tests. IMHO that is a major bug. >>
This is correct, but not quite. The RT's play but not the original imported midi data. The RT does not read and sound the imported midi. Generating the RT creates new midi data and that is what's being played and displayed in notation or the piano roll. The audio and midi is new midi data and will change and update with regeneration or partial regeneration.
To prompt a RT to play the original midi data that was imported from a midi song file requires using the Playable RealTracks Feature. A SuperMidi track also can sound out the original data but I encountered issues closing the file and also had to manually display the tracks as they were hidden once the SuperMidi instrument loaded.
A special note to Notes (and Mario and others): The Playable RealTracks concept was introduced in BIAB with a video tutorial in 2011 and updated to include user made UserTracks in 2014 along with the introduction of the Artist Performance File, a variation of a UserTrack but is proprietary to BIAB. This allowed RealTrack and audio editing in BIAB at the same level of midi editing.
I called these custom tracks "Combination Tracks" before Playable RealTracks was introduced in 2022. You may want to consider a deeper dive into this advanced, long time feature that's been virtually overlooked. I have a YouTube video posted in early 2018 of a cover of the Doobie Brothers "Listen to the Music" where a RealTrack modified to feature their signature acoustic guitar lick if you or others want to check a conceptual "Combination Track" out. Listen to the Music BIAB Combination Track
<...snip...? (Bob, are you doing something unque to that piano track in your midi?). <...>
No, nothing unique.
It's a BiaB sgu.
I entered the chords in the BiaB matrix. C in bar 1 -- F7 in bar 5 -- C in bar 7 -- G7 in bar 9 -- F7 in bar 10 -- and C in bar 11. ---- repeat 6 times and a C on bar 13, the ending. Then I chose a style.
Every chord was entered on the first beat of the measure with no pushes, holds, rests or anything else that may be optional.
It's the most basic 12 bar blues progression - without even a turn around. Nothing fancy at all. In the song setting button, "Allow Realtracks substitution based on tempo" is checked.
Have you tried more than one Realtrack substitution? If so, does it exhibit the flawed results with every Realtrack you tried?
Note: I made this file on an old version of BiaB. I do that to make sure they run on older versions. Since BiaB has excellent backwards compatibility of sgu (and other) files it should play on any version of BiaB still out there.
Last edited by Notes Norton; 03/03/2607:01 AM. Reason: TYPO: I'm TYPOMAN - writing all wrongs. :D
Thanks for the clarification Notes - I was pretty confident in that.
Once I report a finding to the developers I stop digging since it is only a bug when they determine it needs to be fix. As we all now, that can take some time. Otherwise, everything Charlie mentions is likely true, but does not address the finding we reported.
..................................... Have you tried more than one Realtrack substitution? If so, does it exhibit the flawed results with every Realtrack you tried? ................................
Yes I did try a number of different RTs and they all preformed exactly like Dan said: "Yes, the track view will show a green name for the instrument, but will not show the actual waveform or play the RT until it is "generated". However, it should regenerate automatically with this type of change when you hit run. But otherwise, what ii is doing is anyones guess here. We should not be seeing this discrepancy with substituting a midi style with a style containing RTs or just by replacing a midi track with a RT - This simple function has worked effortlesslly for years as Notes indicated grin. I will alert the developers about this thread and ask them to help prioritize a fix. Dan"
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal". Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I suppose with a 35+ year program that started out in DOS 5, and with so many features added on year after year, the programming must be very complicated. And that thankfully, there is back compatibility, it's pretty easy for something to break while updating.
But I know that the wizards at PG Music are good at tracking down the bugs and eliminating them.
I've been using BIAB off and on since 2012 or so. My latest version is 2020 (Windows). I've opened very many style demo files (SGUs) which come with BIAB, and every one I've tried has always let me change the entire band style, or individual instruments, from whatever they were set to, to a completely new style or instrument, whether it was a midi style or a Real Track.
In other words, a chord progression could be played back through anything; that for me has been the magic of the software, letting you explore the different results you can get by playing the same chords through different instruments. I therefore assumed any SGU file could do this. Just as, say, any MS Word file lets you change fonts. As DrDan said "Midi plays fine with new RS, but does not swap the midi for RTs (which it should. right?)" I believed the answer to his question was "right".
This is exactly why I bought your SGU format fakebooks of the Beatles songs, expecting this functionality. Before purchase I did read carefully through the rather long part of your site which states in detail what you can and cannot do with your fakebooks. Nothing there suggested this functionality would be missing. So I pulled the trigger, figuring that the time it would save me entering the chords for their songs manually would make it a bargain.
Alas, the result is what I described in my OP when I opened your fake book version of "You've got to Hide your Love Away". When I first opened it and pressed play, I got your midi arrangement; all the midi styles worked.
But, while I got no errors or error messages when changing from your instrument midi patches to RTs, I also got no sound either, except a quick burst on 2-3 scattered measures from one instrument. I tried some of my most-used RTs, the Campfire guitars, both even and swing feels. No joy whatsoever.
Had I known your fakebooks did not have this basic - universal, I thought - SGU file functionality, I would certainly not have bought them. Again, if something on your site makes it clear that these files don't, it eluded me. I feel the money is wasted.
Rather than, as you suggest, me testing a file which I did not purchase, perhaps you could (and others, if so moved) could test one which I did. Here is a dropbox link the the aforesaid SGU, You've Got to Hide Your Love Away.
By the way I did email you on 21 Feb, replying to the email with the order confirmation (bob@nortonmusic.com), and again on 26 Feb. But I never got an email in reply. (I checked spam). That's one reason why the discussion is here as I couldn't seem to reach you another way. Another was to see if any other folks might have ideas.
If others experience the same problem with this file, I'd suggest you perhaps make it clear on your site whether one can in fact expect these to work in the way other SGU files do - i.e. again, you should be able to play any track thought any RT if the chords are already entered. I'd also ask you to consider refunding my purchase, please.
The OP style opens with a green RT style. This is what my configurations would if BIAB opend an all midi .sgu but found a RT on my system which was similar, OR, if it opened a all midi .sgu and I did not have the specified style, it would use the yellow midi zzjazz.sty). That is all set in preference.
Here is what happens. The .sgu loads with a "c_elpaso.sty" - is actually not a RT style. In this case this is an all midi style I have. No Real Tracks load in track view. When I hit play only yellow midi is playing. So the question at this point is why is the style "green" indicating you have RTs when you don't? NEVERMIND, this is always green regardless of style type per the new GUI
So forget the green and if we just move on and try to replace the C_Elpas.sty with a true Real Track Style - all works as expected. So at the moment I am not seeing any issues.
Had I known your fakebooks did not have this basic - universal, I thought - SGU file functionality, I would certainly not have bought them. Again, if something on your site makes it clear that these files don't, it eluded me. I feel the money is wasted.
Rather than, as you suggest, me testing a file which I did not purchase, perhaps you could (and others, if so moved) could test one which I did. Here is a dropbox link the the aforesaid SGU, You've Got to Hide Your Love Away.
I tried this, changing all the tuned instruments to RealTracks and it's working as expected for me.
Bob's SGUs normally work pretty much as you expected and he's usually very helpful sorting out issues. But he's not a big company ...there's no support team, just Bob. Please try to help him to help solve the issue.
BTW, I think you probably should not have put one of Bob's SGU files online. It's probably best to remove it soon. I shall delete my downloaded copy.
Band-in-a-Box® for Windows Version 2026 (1224)
Last edited by Gordon Scott; Yesterday at03:54 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
But, while I got no errors or error messages when changing from your instrument midi patches to RTs, I also got no sound either, except a quick burst on 2-3 scattered measures from one instrument. ....
OK, this is interesting. This indicates a possible new root cause. This needs a RTFS "return to factory settings" and a Rebuild of the styles - and also go and rebuild the RTs. Besure you audio driver is correct (MME or WAS..) after the RTFS. You can do all that "maintanance" on your system in 1 -2 minutes. Then let us know how it behaves...
I've been using BIAB off and on since 2012 or so. My latest version is 2020 (Windows). I've opened very many style demo files (SGUs) which come with BIAB, and every one I've tried has always let me change the entire band style, or individual instruments, from whatever they were set to, to a completely new style or instrument, whether it was a midi style or a Real Track.
<...snip...>
If others experience the same problem with this file, I'd suggest you perhaps make it clear on your site whether one can in fact expect these to work in the way other SGU files do - i.e. again, you should be able to play any track thought any RT if the chords are already entered. I'd also ask you to consider refunding my purchase, please.
As far as I know, nobody else has this same problem.
1) I made this song in BiaB and saved it, just as anyone would have done. Nothing fancy. So they do have basic sgu functionality.
2) I tried it on my computer, and it switches to RTs perfectly
3) Other people have used this same file and switched to Real Tracks.
4) I answer all e-mails, and never got one from you (I just checked again - and checked my web-host's spam filter rejects). Note: If anyone ever e-mails me and doesn't get a response by the next day, or in very rare instances the second day, please try again
5) There are also free samples in the song lists of all my fake e-disks, so you can try before you buy
6) Since it's working for me, and since I've had zero complaints since I published this book decades ago, I offered another, simplified file as a first step in a troubleshooting process. If that passed, I would try a more complicated test, until I figured it out.
7) I've been making fakebook collections since 1991 or 1992, I've made 53 of them, with as many as 700 songs in each collection, and I've never-ever had someone who couldn't switch to a real style. So in troubleshooting it makes sense to me to start with something simpler.
I do have another idea. Try this. Press F5 on the first measure, and clear the style in the dialog box. Then try again. Let me know if that works for you or not.
If you tried the first bare-bones test file I offered, and it worked perfectly, I would have put a F5 (BiaB dialog box) to replicate the one on your file as the next step. If that didn't work, I have a few more things to try. But you have to cooperate with me as I try different things.
If you prefer to keep this out of the public eye, e-mail me again, and if I don't answer in a day or two at the most, try again.
I answer all e-mails by the next day, the rare exception might be if an emergency occurs, I have an out-of-town gig, or a couple of times a year, I just want to take a day off.
Since 1991, when I started selling BiaB add-ons on 5.25" and 3.5" floppy disks for Pre-Windows IBM DOS5, Atari ST, and Mac System 6, I've had very few problems, and I've never had one that couldn't be fixed. Sometimes it takes a few tests and tries first.
I won't give up until either it's working for you, or it's a PG Music problem. I will not refer it to PG Music unless I'm 99% sure it's not my problem, so bear with me while I go through the troubleshooting process and try different files.
To lingyai, your link of You've Got to Hide Your Love Away loaded perfectly and played perfectly including using the El Paso style of all RealTracks. I believe the problem is on your end.
Also, when you work with Notes (and possibly PG Music) to solve this, please ask Notes if he would prefer you take down the public link to his work. Thanks. I've deleted it from my PC.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Definitely try RTFS and reset your audio driver etc then try again.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
To lingyai, your link of You've Got to Hide Your Love Away loaded perfectly and played perfectly including using the El Paso style of all RealTracks. I believe the problem is on your end.
Also, when you work with Notes (and possibly PG Music) to solve this, please ask Notes if he would prefer you take down the public link to his work. Thanks. I've deleted it from my PC.
Yes, I'd prefer if you take the song down. We've all had a chance to try it.
Thanks.
Also, let me know if the F5 trick works or not. If it worked, I'd like to know just in case someone else has the same issue.
Also, don't give up. I want to make sure you get what you paid for.
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