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The Multiriff feature is fantastic, at least, compared to how BIAB used to work it is. But it can still be time-consuming and frustrating, clicking the buttons over and over, hoping to get something different/useful. And sometimes there seem to be no different RT bits for a bar as I keep pressing the button and keep getting the same bits.
So, I'd like to suggest a new option that is more like EZ Keys from Toontrack. In that program you still have bits/riffs/patterns but instead of clicking a button and waiting for the program to show you a single option, they have all their options in an easy to navigate grid where I can preview any or all of them and easily insert them into my track.
I love how quickly I can assemble a track using EZ Keys and feel this would be an excellent and powerful addition to BIAB!
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+1
"And sometimes there seem to be no different RT bits for a bar as I keep pressing the button and keep getting the same bits."
However there is one major difference between EZ and BIAB that I don't believe is resolvable in exact way you described. EZ keys is a pre-determined MIDI phrase based library. You get what you choose. With BIAB it is far more complex as it uses PGM algorithm /randomizer to glue pieces together from existing recorded data. To put this in a real life scenario: Lets say you do partial regen on bar #5 and BIAB gives you 10 choices to pick from. You listen, choose, move on. If you decide to go back to that bar #5 later and try a different stem. What do you think must happen now? Should it give you (remember) same choices in same order or do a new random generation? What is even more complex, if you use a sectional partial regeneration, which could fall on section of 2 bars at once, a freehand selection (not whole bars).
Having said this, this is my take on your wish, that I believe is more realistic to accomplish. Pre-requisite: Non-modal , floating menu - so you have access to refine selection on UI, use main transport controls, etc. (as of now, menu is modal)
1) Make a selection of a bar, several bars, or any segment freehand.
2) Generate unique stems in a list. Click to listen / choose
3) (This is a tricky one) If you like other(s) stems from generated batch - there should be a mechanism to save these "favorite" in a list with location info and ability to insert them in any place of the composition. Since BIAB can save instructions, instead of rendered audio, it should not take a lot of space, but all others, that you don't want must vanish.
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Partial regeneration through the context menu or direct (Ctrl+F8) is one of the most powerful tools BIAB has to offer.
It had been around for few years now. In my view, if to upgrade, it should be upgraded the right way (not necessarily what I proposed), but so it not only does certain new functions, but is fully integrated in new UI / modern workflow.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Yeah, I get that what BIAB does is more complex but, as a practical matter, what I usually get from multiriff does not seem to contain the variety that that complexity implies! Most times, when I go through a few options, I start to get repeats pretty quickly so I think, under the hood, there may be more standardized groupings of the bits and pieces than what you describe. Maybe a better option would be for BIAB to present a set of phrases it has generated rather than the forward/back button approach. Perhaps that is what you are describing?
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Also, because of the algorithmic method BIAB uses rather than a human-curated set of phrases, I often notice odd phrasings that don't sound correct or natural. And I wonder if BIAB has built-in controls that prevent phrases that would be impossible/highly unlikely to actually play on an instrument?
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Maybe a better option would be for BIAB to present a set of phrases it has generated rather than the forward/back button approach. Perhaps that is what you are describing? As I've mentioned: "2) Generate unique stems in a list. Click to listen / choose" - A group of non-repeat stems to choose from. And I wonder if BIAB has built-in controls that prevent phrases that would be impossible/highly unlikely to actually play on an instrument Kind of / sort of. If you are doing partial regen by selecting bars at Chord View it does a rough cut partial regen. Try going to Audio View and see how the phrase was formed and make selection with a wider range. I found that this technique, while having it's own set of issues (which I will describe later) produces more natural phrasing. ---- Unfortunately, not many people are even aware of Partial Regeneration. To me, it was a game changer.
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And I wonder if BIAB has built-in controls that prevent phrases that would be impossible/highly unlikely to actually play on an instrument Kind of / sort of. If you are doing partial regen by selecting bars at Chord View it does a rough cut partial regen. Try going to Audio View and see how the phrase was formed and make selection with a wider range. I found that this technique, while having it's own set of issues (which I will describe later) produces more natural phrasing. Not sure you got my question. Does BIAB prevent things in generation that would not be possible for an actual player to do? I ask because I have heard some things that sound really odd and at least unlikely if not impossible for a live player. Unfortunately, not many people are even aware of Partial Regeneration. To me, it was a game changer. Are you referring to the process of selecting one or more bars and then choosing multiriff? Or something completely different?
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...
Not sure you got my question. Does BIAB prevent things in generation that would not be possible for an actual player to do? I ask because I have heard some things that sound really odd and at least unlikely if not impossible for a live player.
... I recall watching some of the 'Video Real Tracks' (where the performer had been video recorded playing certain phrases), and knowing that some of the articulations of the performers hands between phrases were impossible to achieve in real time. This was acknowledged at the time by PGM staff. I think this might be related to the issue being discussed here.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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John,
Partial regen & multiriff are very close related. In my mind, it should be a single platform and integrated properly in new UI.
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Hopefully not to confuse the conversation. (my two cents)
I usually work exclusively in the plugin which has supported Riffs for specific bars for about three to four years.
It still can't do partial generations!
I use the RIFF feature with comping inside the door to pick and choose realistic solos.
With a little bit of work you can come up with a realistic solo.
However it's worth mentioning that you can hear the repeated phrases usually within two to three comps. So there is a limited set of phrasings possible.
Partial gens are extremely important especially when it comes to solos.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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John,
Partial regen & multiriff are very close related. In my mind, it should be a single platform and integrated properly in new UI. I don't get it! How do I do "Partial regen" instead of "multiriff"? And why in the world are they separate things? I searched the help system on "Partial Generation" and came away more confused than before I read it! Currently how I use this is, - click an instrument name to select its track in the mixer - select one or more bars I wish to change - right-click and choose Multiriff - click the Next button until/if I get something I like - click the Accept button if I like what I got - or if not, I click the X at top right but the window fails to close so I then click the Close button This seems to work OK except sometimes I get few to no usable variations. Is there some other way to do "Partial Generation" that works better or is more feature rich?
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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John,
Partial regen & multiriff are very close related. In my mind, it should be a single platform and integrated properly in new UI. I don't get it! How do I do "Partial regen" instead of "multiriff"? And why in the world are they separate things? Best I can answer this is the fact multi riffs were introduced earlier than Partial Regen. And yes, in most typical workflows, Partial regen is preferred. You know how PGM loves redundancy!  And keep in mind there are two partial regen methods - more redundancy. Ctrl+F8 is a shortcut used for Partial Track Re-Generation, allowing you to regenerate a selected portion of a RealTrack to create variations. F8 is another partial regen which is also used for re-generating tracks in older versions. Compared to the traditional MultiRiffs feature, these hotkeys provide a faster, more interactive, and granular workflow for honing in on a specific performance.
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What DrDan said. What I am proposing is combining both tools into one and fixing issues, such as repeated segments, unnatural shifts, etc. and integrating it to new UI as non-modal, dockable (or floating) panel. Partial regen was a groundbreaking feature, but it needs more work. --- [quote=Rustyspoon#] Is there some other way to do "Partial Generation" that works better or is more feature rich? John, yes. Dan mentioned it. Here is a video:
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