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I'm in a garage band with some friends and we are preparing for our first concert to family and friends. I've been grappling with volume levels for a while and wondered if anyone can give practical suggestions.
I play keyboard in the group (keytar actually) which requires me to play a lot of different sounds. The volume levels of those sounds can vary quite a bit, ie piano generally sounds softer than the searing lead guitar sound. Also, sometimes I am playing an accompanying part and other times I'm playing an instrumental solo that needs to stand out.
We are using a mixer so that has helped a lot in our band. I would rather control volume on the mixer than my keytar however the variety of sounds I use means I probably still need to adjust my volume manually on the fly (on the keytar). I would then need to ensure I can hear the mix well enough that I can adjust my own volume during a song if required.
Another option would be to have someone else manually mix volumes on the mixer while we are playing.
What do you guys do? Any suggestions?
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I would think a volume pedal would be the easy solution to control your volume of your instrument since the different patches are of different volumes. I play a Fender Strat that has Roland MIDI pickup built in hooked to a Roland GK3 synth and also goes through a DIGITECH effects board which both units have a foot volume pedal. I also use the gutiar volume knobs as well. I have pretty much got all of my preset volumes matched with each other so I don't run into any major surprises when I select a different patch.
Brian
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This has been one of my complaints with various synth manufacturers for years. I do the same as you but as a regular keyboard player. I'm liable to use 3 or 4 different sounds in the same song and that volume problem will drive me nuts sometimes. The only thing you can do is be quick with your volume knob/slider/footpedal. I wouldn't leave it up to a soundman because you're the performer, not him. A patch being too soft is not the problem, it's that screaming lead guitar or layered synth patch that will have everybody looking at you not the soundman. A loud trumpet solo will do it to. If you're playing with the same people all the time, you can create a user bank with the various patches set up the way you want. For me that doesn't work because I play with all kinds of different bands.
Bob
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Quote:
I wouldn't leave it up to a soundman because you're the performer, not him.
While this is, of course, true the sound tech (if he is appropriately positioned) can hear what the FOH mix sounds like, whereas the band cannot. Band side, we're talking about the levels in the monitors and these, in our case anyway, vary from band member to band member and do not correspond to the FOH mix.
At the beginning I was encountering exactly the same problem as the patches on my Roland Juno-D vary significantly in volume.
The solution we found was to prepare a clear set sheet informing our sound tech. (fortunately we always have the same one and he is 100% reliable) as to where the potentially over-bearing patches occur.
Yes, he makes the adjustments in real time on the desk (in the same way as he brings up the volume of whoever takes a solo) Does this count as performing? Maybe - well anyway he always takes a bow with us at the end of the show!
oh, and very best of luck with the band...
Last edited by mglinert; 11/24/10 08:03 AM.
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Quote:
I would think a volume pedal would be the easy solution to control your volume of your instrument since the different patches are of different volumes. I play a Fender Strat that has Roland MIDI pickup built in hooked to a Roland GK3 synth and also goes through a DIGITECH effects board which both units have a foot volume pedal. I also use the gutiar volume knobs as well. I have pretty much got all of my preset volumes matched with each other so I don't run into any major surprises when I select a different patch.
Brian
+1 on the volume pedal.
Depending on your MIDI proficiency, you may also be able to tweak the synth patch volumes... but the easy solution is a volume pedal.
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Can also use wireless earpieces to hear FOH mix when needed, and remove them when you don't need them. I am one of the few guitar players that I know that is OK with hearing my guitar at the volume it should be in the FOH mix, same with keyboards. With a lot of guitar players you simply can't give them the FOH mix or they keep turning up. Bass is another story. I like to hear that 'live' right next to me and the drummer.  Another trick was to save the adjusted patch as another number and notate it my copy of the set lists. Keep the sounds needed for a given song grouped near each other. Often easy to pull up as a saved performance in some keyboards. At least the sounds are then close (relative) for that set.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thanks for everyone's comments - such a great community here The volume pedal is a good idea but maybe more so for a regular keyboard. I'm playing a Roland AX Synth keytar and the volume knob is on the neck within easy reach. My left hand is usually not on the keys so adjusting the volume is not too hard. The trick will be to make sure I'm hearing a FOH mix so that I adjust correctly! I can also set a custom volume level for each patch so I'll do that too to try and minimize differences between patches. That won't help with solos though - I'll still need to up the volume knob for the solo and drop it back down when I finish the solo. I *could* save the same patch into 2 different quick slots, one with normal volume and one with a higher volume for soloing. Only problem is, the keytar only has 16 quick slots (2 banks of 8) so I wouldn't have enough slots. Alas, there is no provision for saving a setup for each song on the keytar - my 16 slots have to last me for the whole concert.
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"Front of House" I believe, although I was merely referencing an earlier poster. I don't pretend to know what I'm talking about!
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Along with the already mentioned Vol Pedal, you might look into an Audio Compressor placed between the keytar's audio output and the input to the board.
Properly set, the Audio Compressor can iron out a lot of that sort of thing automatically.
--Mac
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Quote:
I wouldn't leave it up to a soundman because you're the performer, not him.
[RANT]
Speaking as someone who has done first-rate sound for many years, I don't understand that remark unless you've had some really bad experience with sound engineers. What you suggest is someone who is interfering with the performance.
Even a hired gun or part-timer, if he acts professionally, will optimize EQ and levels and be attentive to what's going on on stage.
A superior tech might as well be a member of the band. The mixing desk is his instrument. He is the objective ear in the room. He knows the material and makes adjustments to enhance, not obscure, the performance. He may actively work effects or even play an instrument from the board.
I have seen individuals who owned a sound system and hired themselves out as "engineers." I have seen them set up at the side of the stage or in front of a speaker where no objective adjustments can be made unless they walk the room. (These guys didn't.) I have seen them making time with the girls and completely indifferent to the performance. I have seen them set up patterns on the graphic EQ because they looked pretty, not because they had anything to do with the sound.
Is this who you're talking about? Someone who is indifferent or incompetent? If so, you need to look harder.  The good ones are out there.
[/RANT]
R.
P.S.: Currently doing sound for Dream Level 7, aka DL7. See on FB and myspace.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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A big +1 for Ryszard!
When you're working with a sound engineer you've got to trust that man/woman to give the audience the best possible sound.
Just make sure you hire a tech who knows his craft. When you go cheap and ask this guy: " I know how to hook up a surround home-entertainment set, so how hard can it be to handle your live- equipment?" That's when you know the show gets ruined
Last edited by Mike sings; 11/25/10 05:30 AM.
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Seconded, if the show size requires it.
Smaller venues, some guys here could sit in and play because they listen. Many guys lack that.
But if it is a big show, with lots of equipment, a sound guy gets paid same as base band here.. and should earn it.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Don't overlook the use of Audio Compressor on keyboards.
Rather ubiquitous with the Pros, who have access to great sound engineers, the practice dates all the way back at least to when Steely Dan *always* placed the little MXR Comp on the output of their Rhodes piano to level out the notes and give it a slight bit of punch.
Today, I run TWO separate rackmount stereo comps in my keyboard amp rack and use them on almost all of my sampling MIDI keyboards when playing live, expanding the softer pattches and compressing some of the louder ones. Irons things out rather invisibly once you understand the controls of the compressor and get the "proper" settings for your stuff.
--Mac
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I played in a 5 piece band for about 6 months. Keyboards. The guitar players just kept cranking their volumes. No matter what happened. Back then I had good ears. And I'd listen to every piece without playing and discuss volume levels. The objective was to try and get 12 o'clock as everyone's starting point.
When they booked the 1st gig for $500 to be split such that my take would be $80 (only 1 instrument), and we were to setup at 6 p.m. play 10:30 'til 2, I declined. They still play every 2 months or so, but split my $80 bucks. I miss the garage, but it was a 30 minute drive each way. I don't think I'm missing much.
Just got 3 gigs for the wife and I for xmas. I decline to take $'s but we are getting $500 for the 3 of them. Christmas spending money.
I should learn RealBand.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
once you understand the controls of the compressor and get the "proper" settings for your stuff.
The compressor/limiter (common combination rack-unit) might look like a simple piece of equipment, but it actually takes a bit of understanding and training to use in the proper way. (as you very well know)
It certainly can be a good solution for the problem of the TS.
The point I was making is that when you are working with a sound engineer, you must trust that person to do his/her stinking best to provide the best possible sound. It seems that a lot of musicians don't trust the SE's with their FOH-sound and think they have to tweek the volume of their instruments themselves. Standing on stage they seem to have the idea that they themselves have a better understanding of what the audience is hearing. Which is kind of weird, considering the fact that the SE is in the audience listening to the sound the audience is hearing and adjusting the levels accordingly...
Last edited by Mike sings; 11/25/10 08:13 AM.
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Hey ....don't worry about it....just grab this... Holy Shit! The is the best-sounding pedal I've heard in my life. Definitely putting this on my GAS list. This pedal is insane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XscZPYKzXIQ&feature=player_embedded#!Wooohoooo, at long last the waiting is almost over Seriously now, they have a new pedal called the Emma TransMorgriffer that is outstanding ....compression+,etc, etc.toe-operated of course.
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.
Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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Quote:
Quote:
once you understand the controls of the compressor and get the "proper" settings for your stuff.
The compressor/limiter (common combination rack-unit) might look like a simple piece of equipment, but it actually takes a bit of understanding and training to use in the proper way. (as you very well know)
It certainly can be a good solution for the problem of the TS.
The point I was making is that when you are working with a sound engineer, you must trust that person to do his/her stinking best to provide the best possible sound. It seems that a lot of musicians don't trust the SE's with their FOH-sound and think they have to tweek the volume of their instruments themselves. Standing on stage they seem to have the idea that they themselves have a better understanding of what the audience is hearing. Which is kind of weird, considering the fact that the SE is in the audience listening to the sound the audience is hearing and adjusting the levels accordingly...
That really depends on IF your keyboard has its sounds leveled out to begin with. Then the sound engineer has a fighting chance.
But if your patches are all over the place as regards energy, then the simple change of the Volume Fader back at the board is not likely to be able to accomplish the desired result.
This is where the leveling of a compressor is of paramount importance IMO.
Because it is often more of a *dynamic range* problem rather than just plain Volume.
--Mac
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OK, I think I wasn't clear in my statements:
Statement 1: When you have a good FOH-engineer working for you, you must trust his judgement and let him do the FOH-sound. (has nothing to do with TS problem, just reacting on Ryszard's post)
Statement 2: When you want to use a compressor/limiter, you've got to take your time to understand the theory and learn how to work the thing. (reaction on Mac's post regarding understanding and setting the levels on a compressor/limiter)
Statement 3: A compressor/limiter is a good solution to the problem of the TS. (agreeing on Mac's suggestion to use a compressor/limiter to tackle TS's problem)
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The aforementioned MXR Dyna Comp has one knob on it...
--Mac
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Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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