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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 673
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 673 |
I just ordered BIAB 2011 yesterday and am starting to get back into the swing of things with BIAB and recording.
I just connected up my UA-25EX and SC-55mkII and for the *first time*, am able to actually hear the SC in BIAB via the 25EX! Yippee! Progress.
Now for the sad part. I was told that in general, software midi will suck and that using a real synth will sound much better. Well, my SC-55 does not sound very good at all. The strings suck big time and the instruments aren't very convincing either.
Any suggestions to improve the midi sound? A better synth? Other midi software?
TIA
BIABguy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,456
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That SC 55 is a hardware synth, but about equivalent to the VCS DXi as far as the age of the sounds go. Both use Rolands early GS soundset pretty much. Came out in early 90's I believe. I think that SC55 chip was on my Roland RAP-10 card back then. Try the Coyote Forte free trial. It'll be on the new drive. Listen to others like that little Ketron SD2 sold here on this very site- http://pgmusic.com/hardware.win.htmYou can hear it here- http://www.ketron.com/sounds.asp?mod=SD2Then go play a couple newer synths in a store somewhere. See what floats your boat. Without knowing what kind of sounds you are after, its hard to recommend anything
Last edited by rharv; 12/14/10 03:53 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 85
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 85 |
Yeah, like rharv alluded to, it isn't so much a hardware vs. software problem, it's more of a realism of the samples/player engine issue, which is, for the most part, tied to the release date. The nature of the beast is, more recent samplers/samples tend to sound better.
There are soft solutions out there that sound great, and work well with BiaB.
A couple of my favorites are VI.ONE, and more recently, Garritan Jazz and Big Band 3.
VI.ONE is a good solid "all around" sampled instrument set that runs in a Kontakt player, and Garritan JABB3 is just what it says it's for: jazz and big band. Note that Garritan switched to using their own Aria player (VST, RTAS, Standalone) some time ago. I find their Aria player to be both efficient and user friendly, much more so than the NI Kontakt player.
However, the first caveat here is, neither of these soft samplers are meant to be General Midi plug-and-play like the Coyote Forte.
That said, if you're comfortable with setting up a few instruments in a virtual rack, followed by assigning MIDI channels to each instrument, then VI.ONE or JABB3 could very well work for you. It's actually quite easy to do this, and the newly configure multi-instrument sets are easily saved and recalled.
The second caveat is that BiaB only supports one "rack" of instruments at a time. You can't run, say, VI.ONE and JABB3 at the same time unless you load your BiaB song in RealBand.
On a related note, I'm in the process of converting my "live" instrument rack to use Garritan's JABB3. I do an eclectic show that features everything from Sinatra to Sabbath, and I'll be keeping VI.ONE/Reason/Steven Slate/EZDrummer in my virtual rig for many genres. However, in A/B testing, the jazz standards material just "sounds better" when using the Garritan player/instruments.
Hopefully this post will help more than confuse. ???
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 673
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 673 |
Quote:
...Came out in early 90's I believe. I think that SC55 chip was on my Roland RAP-10 card back then.
Yeah it's ancient by today's standards. I think I should retire it and put it out of its misery. 
Quote:
Try the Coyote Forte free trial. It'll be on the new drive. Listen to others like that little Ketron SD2 sold here on this very site-...
You can hear it here-...
Then go play a couple newer synths in a store somewhere. See what floats your boat.
Without knowing what kind of sounds you are after, its hard to recommend anything
OK thanks I'll check out Coyote when the drive arrives.
I'll also check out some synths in the stores.
I play guitar and violin.
For the most part I just use bass and drums with BIAB, which now are pretty much audio.
But I may branch out into some other parts as well.
The problem is that once you hear the BIAB 2011 demos (say Gypsy jazz with violin and acoustic guitars)
you just can't put up with any violin/guitar midi sound again.
Ditto for many of the other instruments.
I really just need a good sounding piano/vibes part, bass and drums and that's about it for my jazz.
The vibes I have right now soft/hard synth suck pretty bad.
The one on the 2011 demo doesn't sound too bad. I assume it's real, but it might be a synth.
BIABguy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,456
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,456 |
For realism that SD2 is nice. I notice a lot of the original timbre of each sound individually.
Another factor, though, is how well a synth mixes (with itself and other sounds)
Now that we have a little bit of an idea what you are looking for, suggestions may appear. It's much different recommending a synth for someone doing multitrack recording than some body looking for a 'one box does it all' solution for live gigging or something, or somebody looking to fill the gap on realtracks for a particular need..
The realtracks will actually help you focus in on what it is you need from a synth.
Got a budget?
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182 |
Just picked up JBB3 and haven't hooked up to BIAB 2011 yet. Could you elaborate on how to connect inside BBox? I agree that the Garritan instruments like piano and bass are great- not to mention the brass.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 85
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 85 |
Quote:
Just picked up JBB3 and haven't hooked up to BIAB 2011 yet. Could you elaborate on how to connect inside BBox? I agree that the Garritan instruments like piano and bass are great- not to mention the brass.
This is for PC, so if you're on a Mac, instructions will be a little different.
Assuming BiaB and Aria/JABB3 are all installed and JABB3 is authorized:
1) Launch BiaB and open the "DXi Synth Settings..." from the "Audio" menu.
2) Click in the first plugin slot and select "Add VSTi Plugin..."
3) A browser will popup so you can search for the plugin. Browse to wherever you have installed the Aria VSTi plugin. This may be in "Program Files", or somewhere else, but the end of the path should look like: "\Garritan\ARIA Player\VST".
4) Select either "ARIA Player x86_VST.dll" or "ARIA Player x64_VST.dll" on a 64bit system. If you aren't sure, pick the "x86" version to be safe.
5) After a few seconds of loading, you should see the Aria interface in your BiaB DXi configuration window. You can now assign instruments to each slot. For starters, I recommend a Jazz Brush kit, an Upright Bass, and the Steinway Jazz Piano.
6) For each of the three slots where you've assigned your initial instruments, the last number shown is the default MIDI input channel for that instrument. Click on each one of these last numbers to assign the MIDI input channels. Drums - 10, Bass - 2, Piano - 3.
You should now be able to play BiaB MIDI songs in "Jazz Trio" styles through the Aria Player, hosting your JABB3 instruments.
These three instruments are just a start, and of course, you can extend your instrument "rack" to include a soloist, say, a Trumpet on MIDI channel 8, etc. etc.
You can also save your Multi-instrument "Ensemble" patches by clicking in the black area just below "Ensemble" at the top, and then saving to whatever file name you wish. These will then be added to your "user" preset list, so that in the future, clicking in that black "Ensemble" area again will show a new "user" sub-menu, containing all of your custom Ensemble patches.
Hope this helps.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182 |
Thanks for the very detailed instructions - can't wait to try this. Thanks again.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 897
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 897 |
As an aside, I was over at the Apple App store to buy the BBRemote for BBtoGo. I'm a big proponent of XI now, as I have been for earlier versions. But seeing also that you're looking for a jazz/bass/drums backup alone at times...as I do as principally a jazz singer/guitarst/synth guy, I stumbled upon the new verrsion of the iRealBook for ten bucks. It's got the chords and instrumental backup included to some of my favorite tunes...and for the most part, "they swing" and also allow for quick key changes of the accompanyment. I'd like to incorporate (later, when I'm straigter...as we used to say...) this collection from iPad with (or into)the gigging with BBtoGo and it's own material/tracks/wider bang-for-the-buck...Just say I was amazed at what a live musician or vocalist can get as his backup trio....for TEN BUCKS!! It's also a lifesaving gizmo for gigs when you need some quick "changes" to follow, or get tripped up by Hermione Gingold who comes up to sing one in 5 Sharps!! As "ChillWills" said when he made that ICBM appearance over Moscow......Yippie-Aye-O-Ky-Yayyyyyyyyy...   
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.
Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
Veteran
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This is an excellent tutorial EightString. You should copy this to the Tips and Tricks forum. Also post it in the Biab Wiki which is HereBob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826 |
Quote:
This is an excellent tutorial EightString. You should copy this to the Tips and Tricks forum. Also post it in the Biab Wiki which is Here
Bob
I'm happy to see someone remembers the BiaB wiki. I've added some pages as time allows and as ideas come to me. But I sure would like to see some other contributers so it can grow.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182 |
Thanks for the tip. We have used the fake book on the Iphone a few times mainly when a singer wants to do "Ipanema" in any key other than F.
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