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Just wondering about something....my wife and I played at a restaurant last night - it's divided into 2 sections - one is the bar area with a few tables. and the other a bigger dining room...there was a corporate party in there - about 3 feet from our setup... of about 50-60 poeple - loud & obnoxious the whole 3 hours we played...made it very difficult to hear what we were playing... and then they totally stiffed us on a tip... am I right to be extremely pissed off here?? BTW...we got nice tips/comments from the bar area crowd, as usual....
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I don't know. I've never played for tips myself. As far as playing for loud obnoxious people, I've played 99% of my gigs in bars. Its expected.
As far as being pi$$ed, I've found that the emotion excerted in such an endevour doesn't do anything except increase the amount of acid reflux I get.
Keith
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I play restaurants that have separate bar areas...and even then... it's a challenge! Thanks for small favors, I don't do much of that anymore...but Bless you two and have a very Merry Christmas and prosperous New Year. 
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I also do this sort of thing all the time. From your description you were not playing to the dining room, you were playing to the bar and typically management wants you to keep it down so you're not too loud in the dining room. Unless you were actually hired by the corporation for their party, you have no expectation of anything from them. In fact, they may have been upset because you were interfering with their function.
The regular Friday evening 7-10pm gig I have at a place that appears to be the same set up ie two rooms split by a partial glass divider, does not use any bands during the holidays because of all the private parties. If any of those want entertainment they will hire it themselves but the restaurant doesn't start the music in the bar until 10pm and unfortunately it's the usual loud thumping disco.
Bob
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the topic of tips is a tough one because there are many conflicting points of view. Once you subject yourself to the ignominy of allowing others to value your performance in terms of tips, you pretty much have no choice but to take what you get. You can't control whether people tip, but you can control whether it makes you angry
To paraphrase what Keith wisely said, if you personalize the tipping it can really mess with your attitude if not your health
I made extra money for a while by delivering pizza for my brother in law who manages a locally successful Papa Johns store. For a while it really bugged me when people didn't tip. Then I set up a spread sheet to log my hours, hourly pay, mileage, tips etc and to my surprise, on average my pay remained fairly constant. The bad tip days were always balanced by other days when, for some reason, people tipped more than usual. This knowledge helped me to put the moment into perspective
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No tips . . . It all comes with the territory, including loud and obnoxious people. I've learned over the years that at times like this, and thank God it dosen't happen very often, I just play the gig for myself.
Bottomline, I can put up with the no tips (I never use a tip jar) and the loud patrons but I definetly do my best not let them get to me. Because if they do, then they win and I hate that.
Case in point I played a similar corporate gig myself last night. The crowd was into dinner and chatting so I played a very easy soft background gig for 3 hours. Sure I almost went to sleep a time or two but it was just what they wanted.
Later,
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Citaat:
The crowd was into dinner and chatting so I played a very easy soft background gig for 3 hours. Sure I almost went to sleep a time or two but it was just what they wanted.
That's a pro.
You are not hired to be the star of the party. You are hired to please the croud. It is their party, not yours.
Of-course it is not forbidden to have fun on your job 
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While I don't play professionally I do play a lot of gigs. Always with a band, never solo. E.G I recently bought a new trombone. In the first 16 days that I had it I played 23 gigs and rehearsals - most were gigs. While that was a particularly busy period it does give an indication of how much playing I sometimes do.
Now, I don't say that to skite, but simply to add some weight to my opinion:
As entertainers, our performances are not about us. They are about the people being entertained. If we are "prima donna's" then we are doomed to be constantly dissappointed; the "look at me, look at me" attitude will always leave you wanting more and never getting enough attention.
On the other hand, if we are doing our best to provide the kind of entertainment our audience is looking for then we are much more likely to receive accolades (or tips) because the audience is that much more likely to get what they want.
If you have managed to engage your audience the feedback is amazing and performances can reach amazing heights. If you haven't then you often end up playing for your own entertainment and it can be quite flat and dispiriting.
In the same line of reasoning: I play in the band at my church. Our purpose there is to lead others in songs of praise and worship. If anyone is there for ego, meaning they want people to take notice of them then I don't want them on stage with me. Our purpose is to bring glory to God, not to ourselves, nor is it to entertain though that may happen as a side effect. In church I do NOT want people looking at me. If the congregation has their eyes shut, their mouths open singing and their hands in the air then I am well satisfied.
To misquote Shakespeare a little, "the play's the thing", or in our case, the music is the thing. It can never be about us... At least not and still have real value.
<Edit> the above relates to performance as performance, not necessarily as art. When you can combine the two it's great, but this is not always possible in a performance situation. Then it is usually about business...
Last edited by Lawrie; 12/18/10 08:13 PM.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Quote:
I can put up with the no tips (I never use a tip jar)
Put out the tip jar, man. Everybody in LA does it. When they see the tip jar, a request comes with cash. That place I mentioned is down at the beach where you have to pay six bucks for parking. We never get less than $25 or so which is enough to cover the parking for all of us but many times we get $50-60. This is still a paid gig though we're not playing just for tips. We always use the tip jar in public but not for a private function. Private functions are 50/50 whether we get a tip so if it's a $500 gig we might get a C note with the check. Or not.
Bob
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I was at a big market in Toronto yesterday. A guy in tattered clothes and toting a beat up guitar was sitting in an entrance with his case opened. A pretty good country western sound and covers, if you like that thing. Waiting for the wife. $30 bucks in 15 minutes. He kept hiding his 'take'. Every song, leaving pennies and dimes. Someone threw down $20 and said merry christmas. He stuffed it in his shirt and I noticed a bunch of bills were filling his pocket.
That being said some clean cut kids were playing a cello and flute thing at the other end of the south building and they had a tip jar with almost nothing in it. Lots of people watching. But they were not where you could stroll buy, reach in your pocket and drop change into the case, you had to walk up right in front of them and do it at chest height. I think the guy in the door where you had to go within a foot or so of his case was the difference.
I only once got a tip over 5$. A woman came up after and said I played her favorite tune. Gave me $100.
Picture this one. My marching band played in Baltimore. A guy heard in the distance the Marine Hymn. Came up and requested it. We were warming up and had played it once but he told the director he was a Marine. We did it. He peeled off 10 $100 bills and gave them to the director. Saluted during the playing, tears running down his cheeks. Told us almost no one ever played that anymore, and certainly not the bands you hear in parades. We saw him the next day, and we did it again. He tried to donate and got hugs instead. From 60 year old guys. We were happy me made him happy, would have done it for nothing and bought him a beer.
I have sat on a corner, dinged up baritone horn, case open, older clothes, and made $50 bucks an hour at rush hour in Toronto. $300 for the day. Sit on an old pillow. Play the same 4 pieces over and over. I can't sit on the ground anymore. And I don't really need to do that, it was a bet and a social experiment. I got $100 on the bet I could make $200 for the day. Gave $400 to the Children's Hospital, and had the receipt made out in the name of my reno-contractor, who pays too much tax and is somehow always broke. Good worker, poor businessman.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
I was at a big market in Toronto yesterday. A guy in tattered clothes and toting a beat up guitar was sitting in an entrance with his case opened. A pretty good country western sound and covers, if you like that thing. Waiting for the wife. $30 bucks in 15 minutes. He kept hiding his 'take'. Every song, leaving pennies and dimes. Someone threw down $20 and said merry christmas. He stuffed it in his shirt and I noticed a bunch of bills were filling his pocket.
That being said some clean cut kids were playing a cello and flute thing at the other end of the south building and they had a tip jar with almost nothing in it. Lots of people watching. But they were not where you could stroll buy, reach in your pocket and drop change into the case, you had to walk up right in front of them and do it at chest height. I think the guy in the door where you had to go within a foot or so of his case was the difference.
I have sat on a corner, dinged up baritone horn, case open, older clothes, and made $50 bucks an hour at rush hour in Toronto. $300 for the day. Sit on an old pillow. Play the same 4 pieces over and over. I can't sit on the ground anymore. And I don't really need to do that, it was a bet and a social experiment. I got $100 on the bet I could make $200 for the day. Gave $400 to the Children's Hospital, and had the receipt made out in the name of my reno-contractor, who pays too much tax and is somehow always broke. Good worker, poor businessman.
Marketing my friend, good marketing.
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To answer your question simply. Don't be angry. Those folks were there because they work together and they probably needed to let off some steam on a social level. Don't blame them.
There will be times when people go out just to socialize and then there are times when people actually listen to the music.
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I had a long time gig at a syndicate operated cabaret called "The Misty Ming" (tree). Just me singing the "American Song Book" in this very quiet, dark lounge, with a small u-shaped bar in the back corner...and a baby grand along one long wall *40 feet long with about 30 intimate, round tables surrounding. Dark and still, until the music started. A beautify little musical abode where one came to listen to jazz, talk quietly or just listen to "sounds". I had a Big Brandy Sniffer at the edge of the piano. This was in the 1959 to 1962 years, happy moments before beginning the "4-wives-thing-trial-series" over the next 40 years. Tips were good and "attendees" mannerful and appreciative of the smooth love songs and up tempos...dreamy guitar player, (Ha,ha..what can I say at a much later day, 77years later. One night, "Cleopatra" came in with a girlfriend and listened for a couple of sets, as I sat there playing, singing and sipping my ever-present Galliano-with-a-shot-of-Johnny-Walker mixed in a icy glass tumbler. Ahh, I thought I was in heaven, especially when gorgeous "Cleopatra" invited me over for a nightcap. Nicer than a "C-Note Tip", for sure. Well, that's not quite true because when I entered her apartment we were surprised by the lound banging on the front vestibule door. She said, "Oh my God...that must be my boyfriend...I thought he was still in the slammer down in Stateville Prison"!! Of course I flew down the back outside stairway and leaped into my 56 Austin Healy. A few miles down the road, I was forced over by a big, black Caddy. The guy leaned his head into the roadster, close to mine and whispered, "So I know who you are fella ...and where you work...you know "the rest", don't you buddy??!! ....So went life in the big windy city of Chicago... in much simpler days of yore! If Union Patriarch Ceasar Patrillo (Big ol'Local 5 Federation of Musicians), could see how the music biz is today...from what he left behind... He'd be playin' mournful tunes on his Stradivarius whilst spinning in his grave!! 
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Geez Daddy, same life diff place lol.
I once had a woman in a hotel bar I was playing (a Fancy Holiday Inn when they were truly fancy about '70, who started buying me fruit drinks. After the 4th there were 2 pianos. I had to stop playing, turns out she was feeding me double zombies. The deal with that place was (Thunder Bay) it took 6 hours drive to get there. Got off work Friday at 2, drove back Sunday at Supper. Play 2 nights, free meals for the 4 of us, free rooms, and tips. I did it once a month in the winter time for 2 years. At -45 the whirlpool, swimming pool and sauna made it seem like Florida.
The women trying to pick me up meant the wife put the kids to sleep and checked on me or sat there. She never drank much, and I got freebies.
I made $100 on an average weekend, enough to pay the gas.
I too went home from a bar with a dream woman. I get in the door and there's a pair of size 14 slippers. I ask who's the are she says 'ex boyfriend'. I ask 'how ex?' She says, '3 days.' hmm..'what's he do'. ...."local cop." 'he have keys?' "yes", ..
So I said "look a guy with a gun, a set of keys and he didn't break it off...I think you look great in heels despite being six one, and you are a lovely. But my Mom raised no fools...Bye."
They got back together, I see her now and then..her favorite line is ..."I think you missed on heck of a test drive with a really pee-d off woman. " Hm....
There was this one time at band camp NO NO NO..
John Conley
Musica est vita
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This isn't a story about all the foxy girls musicians get, we all know about that that's why we became players in the first place.
First, I'm one of the straightest people around. I drink just enough to be sociable but no drugs, ever. I'm in Yakima Washington around 1970 playing and staying at the Commercial Hotel. I pick up a dancer from the strip club next door and she takes me to a little house on a quiet street, it's maybe 3am. We do our thing and just as we finished around 4 or 4:30 the SWAT team shows up. 3 or 4 cops bust in and I see more outside. Lots of guns and bright lights. One of them holding some sort of big gun tells me to sit there and don't move while a 2 more go right to the kitchen, I hear noise like they're ripping out something and they come out with 2 or 3 bags of stash. They obviously knew exactly where it was. They take her right away and ask me who I am and I explain I just got into town from California a few days ago and just met her that night. I also told him I was a former Air Force intelligence analyst and didn't have any clue about what was going on here. I kept myself under control and made my answers as short and professional as I could under the circumstances but I was crapping bullets believe me. Thank whoever that she didn't offer me anything (I wouldn't have taken it but it still could have been sitting there) and wasn't using herself. Nothing in the front room but a couple of beers. I then ask if I can put my pants on and he says ok after checking my pockets and ID. He gives me two choices. You can get all righteous and start talking about police abuse and your civil rights and all that and we'll take you downtown, book you as an accessory and get you introduced to all the public defenders or you can go with one of the officers to the station and sit there quietly, no phone calls and someone will drive you back to the hotel when this is over. I gave him a pleasant smile and said I'll take choice #2, thank you very much. The next day the news is full of the largest drug bust in Tri-State history, they arrested over a hundred people and confiscated who knows what.
This could have been a life changing disaster. I've told this story to lots of young people over the years, told them you don't want to be caught in the middle of something like this, trust me.
I was a bit more careful about who I went with after that.
Bob
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In reply to Conley, jazzmammal and GDaddy . . . . Did you guys leave a tip?
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You guys are hillarious! LOL
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Now, that's a great story, with a good "musical respons", added here, from a group playing on a beach!! These kinds of stories could be reported ad nauseum, I'll bet... Proof-Positive that " we're all human"...especially, some of "we heat-seeking-musicians"!!... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0qQXb_y84Let's all sing along with the provided lyrics and why not cry in our beer at the same time!! and, about this group and it's musical selections...not a bad gig at all!!!....I love a swingin'Riverfront or Beach-Boardwalk/Bar Gig... (San Antonio/Chicago, etc.)... but not in the cold and snow!! Just remember, according to this video...I guess it's become "A Gay Ol' Life"! 
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With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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