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Originally Posted By: Byron Dickens

OK, since you failed to answer my basic questions I have to conclude
1. You have never worked on the RealPlayer development team or any other software development team
2. You have never written software to process video or audio
3. You are clueless on the inner workings of the RealPlayer program

For someone lacking in such basic qualifications I find it quite odd that you can you tell me that official information from RealNetworks is wrong. What kind of special knowledge does Byron Dickens have that RealNetworks, Wikipedia and a state of the art AI bot doesn’t have??


Once again, you now know what extraordinary claims require.

But here is another opportunity to redeem and establish your credibility.

What language(s) was the RealPlayer program written in back in 1995?
What language(s) was the RealPlayer program written in back in 2015?
What language(s) is the RealPlayer program written in today?
Has AI ever been incorporated into RealPlayer?
Has RealNetworks ever sub-contracted any portion of the code writing to a sub contractor?
How many different methods are there to convert video files to audio files on the Windows platform?
What are the drawbacks of the FFmpeg library? Is this library used in RealPlayer today?
Do you even know what FFmpeg is?
Can you produce a system block diagram describing how RealPlayer operates on video sources?

Byron, I don’t want opinion, hearsay, inuendo, beliefs or other generic day dream mumbo-gumbo to these questions. I want crisp, fact-based, informed, truthful, logical answers based on your experience. My guess is you don’t have any. Guess what? Programmers and marketing people at RealNetworks DO. They can answer these simple questions and those you or I can’t even think of. It’s THEIR product and this is called design authority or project ownership. Based on your answers (or non-answers above) I will judge whether you have design authority here or not.


I'll bet the development team rolled their eyes at such nonsense and resisted.The marketing guys should have known better and very likely did, but felt they had to dumb it down for a scientifically ignorant and only quasi literate public that has little interest in such niceties as using language accurately.
Can you prove that you are not quasi literate by answering the above questions ?

In these fights, the marketing department always wins.
Says who? And based on what? What is your evidence for this claim at RealNetworks or anywhere else?
My experience with marketing professionals coupled with your non-answers to my questions tells me that you could learn much from sitting at the feet of the marketing director at RealNetworks.


Make no mistake, this is not about you two against me.
This is about Byron Dickens and Mike Halloran against generative AI.
This is about Byron Dickens and Mike Halloran against Wikipedia.
And most relevant, this is about Byron Dickens and Mike Halloran against RealNetworks.

If you want to pull the sled with the big dogs, you have to be a big dog. RealNetworks is a big dog, so is Wikipedia and so is today’s generative AI chat bots. Alaskan Malamutes can cut it, Mexican Chihuahuas can’t.

Imagine if I were to pompously and arrogantly claim that material regarding the inner workings of BiaB as described on the PGMusic website is flat wrong . . . I’d be jerk. PGMusic, their employees and associates are the only ones fully qualified to discuss BiaB with any real authority. Everyone else is far less qualified; or maybe even a clown. So too with RealPlayer.

Someone smarter than me once said “If you find yourself in a deep hole, the first thing to do is stop digging.”

PS> I downloaded another video this week and converted it to an MP3 audio file . . . yes, using RealPlayer. And it works like a charm in my DAW . . . woof woof smile




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Your questions are totally irrelevant. They are a red herring. That's why I'm not going to answer them.

I not only was not part of the design team, I have never worked for Ford Motor Company in any capacity yet I have detailed technical knowledge of how my car works.

You tell me what logical inference can be made from this fact.

Again, I dare you to take a college class and cite Wikipedia in your bibliography as "proof" of anything. Hell, Wikipedia themselves tell you to tread carefully:
Reliability of Wikipedia
Wikipedia is Not a Reliable Source

Drop a video into your NLE and tell us what you see. Better: do as Mario suggested and take a silent video, "convert" it to audio and tell us what happens.

Fact: In your NLE you can separate the video from the audio. You can get rid of one or the other, make changes to one independently of the other and/or move them or parts of them in relation to one another.

Fact: when rendering your project or transcoding it you can independently choose the video and the audio codec.

You tell me what the obvious logical conclusion is

Last edited by Byron Dickens; 08/19/23 08:01 AM.

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Time to put this one behind us.


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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Time to put this one behind us.


I did. Steve and my definitions of convert and extract are different. So be it.
No harm, no foul.

Peace


You know you're getting old when a recliner and a heating pad is your idea of a hot date!

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Originally Posted By: MarioD
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Time to put this one behind us.


I did. Steve and my definitions of convert and extract are different. So be it.
No harm, no foul.

Peace

+1
PM me if you'd like to see if a meeting of the minds is possible.
There's still much to be explored on this subject.


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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
When one download application glitches another download application may not. +++ HERE +++ is a Windows YouTube to MP3 application that works well for me.

Like Dan I am also fond of using Audacity's "Record What You Hear" mode which works very well.


Jim, just to let you know over the past two days Audacity downloads of Youtube audio has failed me completely. I don't know what has changed, but this is familar history for me when it comes to Youtube downloads. So I tried your recommendation and it worked perfect for 3 out of 3 attempts (ya I have a new project in mind). Just have to figure out now if I need to pay something or if it is free? grin

PS, tried RealPlayer and was not sucessful in several attempts.

Thanks
Dan, The link I provided is for the free version of the 4K YouTube to MP3 application. You can purchase a license to unlock additional features but I haven't found a need. +++ HERE +++ is a webpage that explains the benefits of purchasing a license and how much the various license plans cost.


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Quote:
Make no mistake, this is not about you two against me.
This is about Byron Dickens and Mike Halloran against generative AI.
This is about Byron Dickens and Mike Halloran against Wikipedia.
And most relevant, this is about Byron Dickens and Mike Halloran against RealNetworks.



I have nothing against AI, Wiki or RealNetworks.

I have everything against your attitude when you were presented with an opportunity to learn from people who do know their subjects. We posted in good faith with the best of intentions and only kept replying so that you might learn. Trust me, we have learned.

This, however, may be the funniest thing that I have ever read on these pages. Thank you for this laugh.

Quote:
In these fights, the marketing department always wins.


Any of us who have ever worked in sales, marketing or management know the accuracy of that.

If you think we're the ones who look bad as a result of this thread, that's just another of your many mistakes.


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Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran

I have nothing against AI, Wiki or RealNetworks.

But you do have something against them . . . you won't except what they are saying about RealPlayer converting video files into audio files when clearly they know much, much more than you.

You seem like an otherwise rational guy so let me try this.

If you choose to be adamant about RealPlayer extracting audio then please explain how that is done.
Does their software skip every 3rd byte in the source file and . . . . pooof, audio appears?
Or does it skip every 13th bit and then take the square root of the remainder?
Or maybe the first and 3rd fifth of the file is video and everything else is audio?

I've given you my evidence . . . times 3. Where is yours?

Mike, with all due respect, this is not a kindergarten schoolyard where you can say "My daddy invented paper, walked on the moon and is the strongest man on earth."
Rather, this is the adult world where credibility and fact-based evidence matters; provide some.


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It is extracted for one because most video does not interweave the structure of the audio and video so it's not about counting bits or multiplying. They are separate inside the file.
You extract the audio part of a file that is labeled a video file. (video file semantically means 'video' but it often contains audio too, go figger)

Conversely, the audio section of a video file is usually 24/48 in a given codec .. so if the application has an end result of something other than that, then it did indeed convert it (as it extracted it).

Semantics .. some of the worst arguments to get into or suffer through, especially when in some cases both sides can be correct!

It's OK to try to look at it from the other side and think "yeah, I see why he'd say that"
Sometimes it's even true from both sides.

Last edited by rharv; 09/14/23 12:33 PM.

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Originally Posted By: rharv
It is extracted for one because most video does not interweave the structure of the audio and video so it's not about counting bits or multiplying. They are separate inside the file.

I can see that when I (yet again) asked Mike to explain how the extraction is done that my tounge-in-cheek question was taken literally. So let me try again, this time being more obvious.

Does their software skip every 3rd byte in the source file only if you ask nicely, dance around the flag pole 4 times under a full moon in the rain while howling with lit candles in both hands and . . . . pooof, audio appears?

If you haven't noticed, I'm evidence-driven. Personal beliefs, heresay and opinions don't mean much to me.

Q. As for semantics, could it be that you are the one wrong about semantics/terminology and not RealNetworks?
A. Yes

Here is my evidence. But I am flexible. Get RealNetworks to change their "semantics" and I'll certainly change mine.

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Why do I do this. I should leave this alone but...

BassThumper's original question related to changing a YouTube video file to an MP3 audio file.

Mike's response was to say one can't convert video to audio.

But that was not what Bass Thumper had said.

Below is an image of before and after media-info reports for a YouTube mp4 file changed to a mp3 audio file by the simply doing:
$ ffmpeg -i SavedYachts\ 140MB\ Medium.mp4 SavedYachts\ audio.mp3

You will see that it has indeed 'extracted' the audio, but it has then converted from the mp4's AAC LC to an mp3 audio stream, probably in a different coding and certainly at a different data rate, before repackaging in mp3 file format.

One could equally argue that the conversion 'extracted' the video and dumped it.

In either case the new mp3 file is of a different type to the mp4, with different packaging data, so the file has been converted.

'Extraction' may well be part of the process, but the whole process from start to end is a conversion.

A final binary compare shows the two files differ right from the very first byte, despite these both being mpeg files. The file types and the file header information are different.


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mp3 to mp3
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 09/15/23 08:12 AM. Reason: type date->data

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Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
Why do I do this. I should leave this alone ...


Ya, your first thought was the best one... grin


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Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott

In either case the new mp3 file is of a different type to the mp4, with different packaging data, so the file has been converted.

Thank you Gordon.
Here is further evidence that corroborates this from an FFmpeg perspective.

This should now be established truth, settled science and confirmed fact.

Let's all move on. . . whewwww, this took a loooong time.

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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
Why do I do this. I should leave this alone ...

Ya, your first thought was the best one... grin

Yep.
Gordon out.


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Nomenclature of any process is subject to nominative determinism, initial and subsequent definition movement and mondegreening.


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