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marty c Offline OP
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Hi fellow CCM musicians. I have two questions:

1 - Just wondering how many of you are using BIAB and if anyone is using it to make backing tracks for Sunday worship?

2 - How many of you would be willing to share what you have created for others using BIAB?

Thanks,
Marty

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marty c Offline OP
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Guys, per my email above, it has been brought to my attention that what I ask for with regards to sharing files may not be legal. I need to check into this. Regardless, I would love to know more about your experiences (question #1).

Sorry if I I asked for something that shouldn't happen. While representing the Christian community, the last thing I want to do is break the law!

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Sharing tracks is totally cool in this respect. That is, unless the person has filed a copyright and doesn't permit it. In that case, they probably won't post a link to it either.

Safe bet that if it's posted here and has an open dropbox link, (or other link) it's there to share with anyone who wants it.

Without going too deep into copyright law..... if it's posted use it if you want it. If you are planning to release it beyond the live church service on Sunday morning..... (planning to burn and sell CD's?) you would certainly want to seek out a release waiver and written permission to use that sample/clip that someone else created, similar to obtaining the license for a cover song. The exception is all the stock stuff in BB/RB since you have license for that with your purchase.

As far as CCM styles, have you looked into BB's praise & worship styles? There are a number of styles in there specifically for CCM.

A few of the new ones have the "off the cuff" drumming style in them that seems to be so popular with the bands in that style of music. I was fairly impressed with the styles I have heard and am currently playing around with writing several tunes using those styles.

Also, don't over look using the rock and country styles as well. They tend to work well in some of the CCM/P&W songs of the day.


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Originally Posted By: marty c
Guys, per my email above, it has been brought to my attention that what I ask for with regards to sharing files may not be legal. I need to check into this. Regardless, I would love to know more about your experiences (question #1).

Sorry if I I asked for something that shouldn't happen. While representing the Christian community, the last thing I want to do is break the law!





Sharing copyrighted music is against the law; no matter where it's "posted". If you are not sure if the song is copyrighted, assume that it is. In the case of CCM music, if you contact the copyright owner, chances are good they will give you permission to use the material.


Regards,

Bob

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marty c Offline OP
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Thanks for your replies. Just to be clear. If I created a version in BIAB of Chris Tomlin's "How Great is Our God" I couldn't use it on Sunday morning as backing tracks?

Or if I asked someone to share their created version in a BIAB file .mgu for the same song above.... I couldn't use it on Sunday morning?

Not making anything to sell or profit from.

Also are there some strict guidelines for the ACW? Seems like that might be walking a fine line. It's a program specifically designed to copy someone else's stuff.

Just asking cause I want make sure I don't cross the line. Just trying to do the right thing.

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Originally Posted By: marty c

Also are there some strict guidelines for the ACW? Seems like that might be walking a fine line. It's a program specifically designed to copy someone else's stuff.


The Audio Chord Wizard tool helps you to find only the chord progression. Chord progressions are not copyrighted.


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Thanks. I guess I am still a bit confused about whether or not I can make my own backing tracks to use for live play of another person's song.

There is a group called CCLI in which our church pays a fee to play, copy chord charts and broadcast our service. I will contact them today to find out what is allowed and what is not.

Thanks guys.

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Originally Posted By: marty c
If I created a version in BIAB of Chris Tomlin's "How Great is Our God" I couldn't use it on Sunday morning as backing tracks?
Or if I asked someone to share their created version in a BIAB file .mgu for the same song above.... I couldn't use it on Sunday morning?

Also are there some strict guidelines for the ACW? .... It's a program specifically designed to copy someone else's stuff.

Just asking cause I want make sure I don't cross the line. Just trying to do the right thing.


Trying to do the right thing..... laudable.

first: The auto chord wizard doesn't copy. It detects the chords and the tempo. Big difference.

next:

You would owe the royalties paid through a license if you are recording the song and selling copies of it. So no, just performing the song doesn't necessitate royalty payments from you. You said you're not making copies to sell.... so this doesn't apply.

OK... so....

Provisions in the law for churches

read the emails further down the page at the wiki-site.

Copyright law makes provisions for religious use of music in their services.....with conditions.

Basically, in a church service, the music is exempt from the need to pay license fees, which is kind of what I was thinking. As long as it's in the service and not piped to other parts of the church..... so that puts a number of churches with video in the lobby and other places in conflicted positions. Streaming it to the net or on DVD's of the service is a totally different issue and are not exempted.

Enter CCLI, One license, & GIA.... which negotiaited with the publishers and copyright owners to set a fee to cover the uses of music in the churches in this modern age of technology. Power point, copy machines, etc...Problem solved. You can play the songs, the church pays a yearly fee, and no copyright laws get broken. Everybody who's supposed to get paid is happy.

Play the music, use the backing tracks and let the church handle the paperwork (if any) with CCLI if they record the service to DVD.

Backing tracks you make from BB are royalty free. Use them to create without worry. Same deal for other synths and sample packages. No problems.

With Band in a Box, many folks are creating and posting (sharing) their original user tracks for others to download and use. Those are copyrighted instantly according to copyright law, but since the person is sharing them freely on the internet, you can use them freely as well. If the person who created them did not allow you permission to use them without a license fee, I'm sure they would be on a site for sale and not as a free download. This does get into a gray area, so in a case like that where you would be using them in something that might be recorded, you would probably wish to do the right thing and contact that person. Get their "official written permission" to use their loops or user tracks in the song. That way, you have yourself covered.

My 2 cents

Last edited by Guitarhacker; 04/09/14 05:56 AM.

You can find my music at:
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You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

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marty c Offline OP
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Guitarhacker,
Thanks a bunch. Our church doesn't have musicians (old established Methodists) and has traditional hymns with the organ. We are trying to implement some praise music, but so far I have me (acoustic) and one other member playing an electric. We mainly want to use BIAB to create bass, drums, keys and maybe synths. Basically created the song, opened it in RB and muted the acoustic and electric guitar parts. I adjust the levels and we all feed into a board at my feet - which then feeds to the main board. We send two channels and pan one left and the other right.

Did this a few time already and worked okay. I used the Jukebox and froze the tracks. Still a little cumbersome. Trying to get the song into a stereo wav and use Ableton live so I can control things with a midi foot pedal.

Any idea how you would go about this would be helpful. We would like to sound good enough that others may want to join us!

Marty

Thanks for your advice!

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I usually opt for the path of least resistance when I do play "out".

I know what parts I'm going to do.... lead vocal and acoustic guitar are the usual parts.... so I simply export the project to my DAW...Sonar, and work it up there as a finished song with all the parts. I master and polish it and then.... for the copy I will use in the church or wherever else I may play, I burn a CD.

On the export for that performance CD, I mute the lead vox and the acoustic guitar and that's what I burn. Backing Tracks of my own design.

Every church now days have CD players and PA systems so it's pretty much a given that using that method will work.

Last edited by Guitarhacker; 04/10/14 04:33 AM.

You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I'm no lawyer - let's just say that up front.

I'm glad you found your way to CCLI. Read as much as you can about what CCLI actually covers - it's quite a bit less than a carte blanche use of copyright protected music and printed materials.

In every church I've been involved in that pays CCLI, one of the things that is done is the CCLI license number is displayed along with copyright owner information for each song for which the lyrics are projected on screen. CCLI states what they actually cover here: http://www.ccli.com/WhatWeOffer/WhatYouCanDo.aspx

So again, not a lawyer here, but CCLI covers actually a pretty narrow use of copyright protected songs.

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For those who might be interested in backing tracks for worship. These are the actual multitrack recordings minus the lead vocal track. You can read all the legal stuff on their website.

MultiTracks
http://www.multitracks.com/

http://www.sweetwater.com/worship/


Brian


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Sorry to get off the subject but when I clicked on the Mixmasters link Brian provided I noticed they are having a remix contest during May, 2014.

There are some nice prizes as well as a free download of track stems for use in the remix contest.

And now, back to the thread.


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