It’s been four years since I wrote the first post in this thread. The basic info about file types still applies to BIAB 2021.
The reason for this thread is that each year at this time, when the new version is released, people may be considering purchasing or upgrading to the audiophile version. If so, I encourage you to go to the first post in the thread, page one, and read the first dozen or so posts.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
This is great info. I started with 2021 Pro on Jan. 3rd, upgraded to Ultra a few days later and I just ordered AE. I'm a saxophonist and I'm working on a Christmas album for a release later this year and it looks like I'm going to use 100% BIAB for my tracks.
I play alto on occasion but I play mostly tenor and soprano. I thought about doing one alto track for the project but I've decided against it this time. My moniker is a nickname from my college bandmates WAY back in the day.
Thanks for your support. I have always been an audiophile and still have most of my hearing that it makes a difference. This despite a lifetime of playing in bands that should have finished me as having good ears.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
I'm installing the 2022 audiofile version today and just read through this thread - it's been a while.
I was trying to use the Installer's third Option to install everything on my pc hard drive, and then specify the external drive where the RealTracks and RealDrums files now reside on my system, but the Installer warned that for the audiofile version I need to select a different option and then 'Copy' the RT and RD files separately.
(If the PG Staff is monitoring, it might be a good idea to note that in the instructions. I didn't see it anywhere. It's only when the Installer is about to execute that the message appears and you can't go back. You have to cancel the installation after it starts. Also, I think the message says to select the first Option which is to Run BiaB directly from the USB drive. The second Option to install BiaB but leave the RT's and RD's on the USB seems more logical since you're already trying to install everything on your computer's hard drives.)
So in Windows I guess I'll do that and skip replacing any files already on my external USB. BiaB 2021 is up to date, so any of the RT and RD files I already have should be good. And btw, there are both WMA and WAV files on my external drive and on the audiofile USB, which is what brought me here in the first place. I didn't remember that BiaB automatically uses the WAV files unless they're not found.
I copy most (but not all) of the new RealTrack files after sorting by date. [Because it’s a lot smaller, I copy all the new RealDrums]
My point is, I do not use the PG Music installer so I have not seen your warning message. Certainly it is possible to install the RealTracks to a different drive, so I’m not sure what your message means. I do understand you know what you want.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
If I'm rendering stems or other .wav files that will again be worked on within my DAW, say for faux mastering or to be imported by another program or DAW I ensure I select Dither Master & Noise Shape Master as stacked processing does introduce artefact in the higher frequencies. I assume, because the lossy formats converted/unpacked to PCM/DSD etc. have filled gaps with zeros before truncation, that the problem is somewhat greater. Now, I render at 24bit if I need to move things or process further, as would most folk but processing by streamers etc. may introduce more. I usually upload 16 to streamers as a 24bit upload strains my bandwidth/allowance. Dan Worral explains it nicely & explains why it's not a problem and is a problem depending on one's needs.
Please excuse the rude title. Note...the little trick with -0.1dB is cool.
The concise explanation is at 12.43 in the video. At 15.59 he plays with MP3 in the same processing. Pity he didn't do WMA as that's germane to the website. Perhaps someone with the time & nous will try the process on one.
For my purposes, that is recording other "real" instruments at 24bit, the basic rules for me are :Dither/noise shape any time in 24bit. Dither Noise shape ONCE for 16 bit.
Given the relative cost of storage versus the time & expense of conversion, the higher cost for the "audiophile" version no longer seems justifiable to me other than marketing of course.
Last edited by rayc; 04/21/2207:28 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
For several years a few of us have been suggesting that PG Music should consider making a 24-bit audiophile version. That would eliminate conversion for folks who want to work in 24-bit in a DAW (as I do). Of course, that would need at least a 3 TB drive, maybe 4.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
24 bit is nice but are the sources 24 bit or better to start with? Does PG Music have a server or five loaded with 24 bit, (or better), originals of all Real Tracks & Real Drums? The slow "roll out" of drum "stems" suggests that there may not be many original tracks from a mutli track RealDrum session available for release.
Again, given the status of storage these days, the need for "audiophile", (& that is another of many PG Music misnomers), as a special product is redundant.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
We tested ultra vs audiophile pretty hard a few years ago. Speakers ranging from $100 to $5000. Lots of different listeners Nobody consistently could tell
Maybe in the past it mattered.
Maybe.
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS Sonoma 14.5 Apple M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro 11
“We” is myself and some other friends. Musicians. Engineers Regular people My cat was disinterested in the entire effort and refused to take part. More than 5, less than 10 people.
My comments are Not presented as a scientific analysis. Just a collective opinion. It began as I was looking for a reason to give PG Music even more of my money every year and purchase the audiophile version. I found no compelling reason to do so based on “our” little test. That’s all.
I invite you do do it yourself. We used the Same Real Track arrangement rendered with 2 versions of BIAB (ultra and audiophile).
See what you find.
Maybe you’ll find different results.
Maybe not.
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS Sonoma 14.5 Apple M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro 11
Here is a spectral view of a RT 3063 Vocal Aahs.. the top track is wma and the bottom is wav with the same sections, both are direct from the RT folder on the Audiophile drive without processing using Biab Track Injector that allows you to use any file type compatible with Reaper.
the thing i like in reaps is to record in compressed file format my vocs eg flac. maybe i'm stupid but i cant hear diff from recording in wav. frankly i'm sick of running tests lol for confirmation bias.
ive lost count how many traks ive recorded over the years in reaps useing flac. thousands... thus a reason i posted a wish for bb n ' rb to do same...or use ogg or wavpak whatever.
imagine bb n' rb genning/recording/playback/mixing all useing a standard compressed format useing a m2 ssd.
From the Reaper Community Forums regarding RECORDING TO FLAC: From as far back as 2009...things have progressed but, I suspect, the ratios would remain similar:
- flac 24bit quality=8 -> ~70% cpu usage (~10% on playback)
- wavpack 24bit quality=very high -> ~30% cpu usage (~15% on playback)
- wav pcm 24bit -> ~5% cpu usage"
What one may save, these days unnecessarily, on storage one may lose in buffer size, CPU usage, glitches & VST restrictions.
Even in 2009 it was clear: "Most algos are creating a file somewhere between 50% (theoretically) and 60% of the original file's size. Basically, a 10MB track will be 5.5MB in size (average).... With 16/32GB USB memory sticks and HDs in the 100s of GBs (and the individual tracks often being smaller than 10MB), I myself am not seeing much use for it."
Last edited by rayc; 12/03/2207:52 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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