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#378939 - 12/01/16 04:01 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version
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Matt Finley Offline
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These are some comments on the difference between the 'regular' and audiophile versions of BIAB. It is only my opinion. Sorry for the length. If anyone finds fault with what I've written, please explain and I'll make corrections and updates.

Last revised: December 1, 2016

This topic comes up frequently and you should be able to find plenty of opinion in posts within the last few years, and those opinions will vary.

I've used the audiophile version of BIAB for many years and highly recommend it with the following understanding: you will need good equipment, a good listening environment, and good ears to hear the differences. In other words, if you listen to MP3s in a car and you have long lost your high-frequency hearing like some musicians, you will not be able to notice any difference.

The 'regular' version uses .WMA files. The specs on these are often 128 Kbps, some less so. The sound seems to me to be comparable to a 198 Kbps MP3. The compression is about 11 to 1, so they are the same smaller size of a 128 Kbps MP3 but sound better than that.

Some instruments (such as acoustic guitar, acoustic grand piano, and cymbals) show compression artifacts more than others and thus are particularly better sounding in the audiophile version.

The audiophile version uses .WAV files of 44.1, 16-bit, or in other words CD quality. Because they are not compressed, the .WAV files will take up about 11 times more space than the corresponding .WMA files (and you still have the complete set of .WMA files).

The audiophile version runs slightly faster, which might not sound intuitive, but it does so because BIAB doesn't have to first uncompress the .WMA files. The way BIAB works is, if there are .WAV files available, it uses those; if there are none, it uses .WMA files, uncompresses them, then runs. This scheme makes it possible to have a combination of .WAV and .WMA files in your RealTracks and it works fine.

Be aware, the annual upgrade price for the audiophile version will be more.

At this time, PG Music ships the audiophile version on a very nice external drive that uses USB 3.0.

The difference in quality between the audiophile and regular versions seems to be getting less over the years. In the early days of RealTracks (2007), there were easily recognizable differences. I suspect improvements in the BIAB program using the Elastique algorithm have made this difference harder to detect, but that's just a guess. This year for BIAB 2017, PG Music has re-recorded a number of RealTracks for better sound.

Regardless of whether you have the audiophile version or not, the farther you stray from a recommended tempo, and the harder the Elastique algorithm must work, the more you risk hearing artifacts. Also, try unchecking some of the speed-up options in Preferences, RealTracks. I have a fast i7 and I even turn some options off to get the best quality I can for my final mix.

If you are producing commercial recordings, the audiophile version also makes a difference because noise in a mix is cumulative. If you have a little noise on each track, but add many tracks, you may notice it more. Therefore, my guideline is, if you are doing commercial work, you should get the audiophile version. For anyone else, it depends on how much you value having the best sound you can get. For me, as a composer, I get inspiration just from great sound, and that is reason enough to go audiophile.

If you have just purchased BIAB and like what you hear but want the best possible sound, call PG Music Sales and see if they can work something out to upgrade to the audiophile version.

All comments about BIAB also apply to RealBand, which uses the same RealTracks.

PG Music has not approved (nor so far, disapproved) of anything I have said here. As mentioned, I welcome and will make corrections.

Matt Finley
Kingsmill Music
Devoted BIAB User since 1994
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#379098 - 12/02/16 04:27 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Excellent appraisal Matt, and I concur with all said.

PGM should consider to make this a sticky.

The subject is raised often (I certainly investigated it in detail too before upgrading to Audiophile), and it would be a valuable resource to users exploring the benefits and differences between versions.
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#379340 - 12/02/16 04:03 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Pat Marr Offline
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Thanks for that Matt.. good information...

and it validates my choice to skip the audiophile version because I'm certain that after years of working in loud industrial settings and playing in bands my impaired hearing could not discern the difference.

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#379367 - 12/02/16 06:00 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Noel96 Offline
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Your thoughts are a great summary, Matt.

All I'll add is that should it turn out that a completed song is going to be compressed, and the quality of that final stage compression is important, then the Audiophile edition could be beneficial.

I'll explain.

Some more thoughts on audio quality...

When the original Realtrack and Realdrum wav files are converted to 128 kbps wma, there is some minor reduction in audio quality. Even though these wma files are reconstituted as wav files when BIAB plays, the quality losses from the initial conversion of wav to wma are still present.

The above means that when a final mix is assembled and then compressed as part of the final stage of presentation (for example, publishing on Soundcloud where Soundcloud automatically compresses everything uploaded), the Realtracks and Realdrums in the final mix will undergo the equivalent of a second compression. This could potentially reduce sound quality even more noticeably.

With the Audiophile edition, it's possible to work entirely with the original wav files without any loss of audio fidelity. Then, when the final mix is compressed, only a single compression is undergone.

  • With the previous thoughts in mind, when I upload a song to Soundcloud, I always create a final wav file mix and then upload that wav to Soundcloud. Because I use the Audiophile edition of the software, when Soundcloud compresses the uploaded wav, that's the only compression the Realtracks and Realdrums undergo. As a result, the audio quality of my streaming song on Soundcloud is the best that I can achieve using 16/44.1 original wav files.

  • Radio broadcasting is another area where music is compressed prior to being used. So if songs are likely to be played back by radio transmission, it's possible that the Audiophile edition will be useful in obtaining a better quality final sound.

The above thoughts stand outside of an individual user's ability to hear the high fidelity sound of Audiophile Realtracks and Realdrums. It is the overall hearing ability of the final audience that is considered.

Quote:
To test what compression does to an audio file, try the following.

1. Create a small song.

2. Save the final mix as:

  • (a) wav (at least 16 bit, 44.1 kHz);
  • (b) 128 kbps stereo mp3;
  • (c) 96 kbps stereo mp3.

3. Upload all three versions to Soundcloud (keep the tracks Private if you don't want the world to hear them).

4. Play the tracks back and compare.

During its preparation process, Soundcloud will compress each of the uploaded files. While some instruments survive this compression better than others, it's usually possible to hear audio artifacts creeping into to the published audio as a consequence of Soundcloud's compression.


Hope this makes sense.
Noel

December 3, 2016
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#379402 - 12/02/16 08:52 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Matt Finley Offline
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This is very solid information, Noel. Yes, it is critical to avoid compressing a compressed file. While I don't use SoundCloud, I have encountered severe artifacts on YouTube. My video guy would make the original file as large as YouTube allowed before it would employ a worse compression level.

Radio stations can really destroy the quality (and dynamic range) of a song also. I have learned not to try to out-think a radio station, because whatever they do will mangle the sound anyway. The only thing you can do is what you say, stay in a non-compressed mode as long as possible.
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#379469 - 12/03/16 05:31 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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I only use BIAB audiophile edition now a days because of the high quality audio tracks it provides and the fact I like being able to have every real track avalibe with out having to install all the tracks on to my Mac. The fact that they are only 16 bit 44.1k does not really bother me since most people can't tell the difference in aduio higher than 320k mp3. As someone who went to school for audio, it would be nice to have at least 24bit 44.1, as I use that a lot when mixing in my DAW, and I hope the 2017 BIAB for Mac will be able to have the RTs at 24 bit, but again, it's not that big of a deal to me.
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#379475 - 12/03/16 05:50 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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DEddy Offline
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Very informative info. Thanks to all.

DE
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#382048 - 12/12/16 10:34 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: DEddy]
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New to the Audiophile here.
I notice that the the Audiophile has both WAV & WMA (as mentioned earlier.
When installing to a HHD do you need both the WAV & WMA?
If not, do you go through a nd remove the WMA's?
If you don't remove the WMA's does BIAB just default to the WAV's?
If BIAB defaults to WAV can you, for example install WAV files to the Realtracks you use the most and leave WMA's for other instruments? (If you need to save space on your HDD)?


Edited by Beachboy (12/12/16 10:42 PM)
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#382071 - 12/13/16 02:36 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Matt Finley Offline
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When installing from the PG Music USB drive to a hard drive on your computer (which you don't have to do), yes, you will get both a .WMA and a .WAV of each sound but you just need one or the other to use that sound.

Yes, you could write a batch file to go through and remove all the .WMA files if you wanted, but I don't think it's worth the effort since they are only 1/11 the size of the .WAV files.

Likewise, to save space, you could delete some .WAV files of sounds you don't plan to use, but you would have to do that manually within each folder you choose, which would take quite some effort.

What I do instead is use a file manager and copy only the folders that are new each year that I know I want from the USB drive over to my hard drive. And I bought a hard drive just for RealTracks and RealDrums.
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#382073 - 12/13/16 02:46 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Matt Finley Offline
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One other tip. When an update for RealTracks is announced, wait until they also release the audiophile version of that same update.

Sometimes they come together and there is a different link in the announcement. Sometimes the audiophile update comes in another post a few days later.
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#382079 - 12/13/16 02:58 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Thanks for the advice Matt.
Like you, I'm going to store the Realtracks & Drum WAV's on a backup drive.
So, if you leave botht he WAV & WMA's in their folders does BIAB just default to the WAV's?
Also, thanks for the headsup regarding the updates, I was wondering how that worked.
Yes, I think I'll do similar to you and satart be moving the WAV's I need as I need them to my HDD and then just add as new versions are released.
Col


Edited by Beachboy (12/13/16 03:09 AM)
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#382103 - 12/13/16 05:26 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Matt Finley Offline
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Yes, BIAB defaults to using the .WAV files. Go back and read my explanation of how that works in my first post. It's pretty cool how they do it. I explain that about six paragraphs down, the one that starts with "The audiophile version runs faster".
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#382117 - 12/13/16 07:43 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Beachboy Offline
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Matt,
Yes, see it now.
Thanks for all the info.
Col
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#382169 - 12/13/16 11:05 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Matt Finley Offline
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It really is cool, how PG Music manages to do any of this.

There is a lot of info to take in here. I hope you found it clear and that this thread helped you.
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#382228 - 12/13/16 02:48 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Yes Matt, all very helpful.
Thanks
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#393429 - 01/31/17 12:42 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: VideoTrack]
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Thank you for this great post Matt. Not only interseting but It has enabled me to make a wiser buying choice of the pak I need.
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#393440 - 01/31/17 03:22 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Yorkshireknight]
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One thing I have always wondered about: If I buy the audiophile version, and add to that what usually is offered as the "bonus-49 pack", will it also be in the uncompressed wav format, or wma-only?

All the best!

Antonio
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#393528 - 01/31/17 11:12 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: doctormidi]
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Originally Posted By: doctormidi
One thing I have always wondered about: If I buy the audiophile version, and add to that what usually is offered as the "bonus-49 pack", will it also be in the uncompressed wav format, or wma-only?

All the best!

Antonio

Hi Antonio,

When this question was asked a year or so ago, Callie said that it's necessary to mention that one would like the Audiophile edition of the bonus package at the time of purchase. The package will then be added to the Audiophile's USB drive prior to shipping.

Regards,
Noel
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#393550 - 01/31/17 01:40 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Will B - PG Music Offline
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This is a great breakdown, Matt. Definitely going to be sending new customers to this so they can get a veteran user's opinion in the future!
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#393603 - 01/31/17 06:26 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Matt Finley Offline
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Thanks, Will. I'm glad to have the opinion of a PG Music employee. I wrote this the day BIAB version 2017 was released for the PC. Potential customers always ask, and I had written parts of this info for many years, over and over. I'm pleased you find it helpful.
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#433497 - 10/14/17 09:15 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Matt Finley Offline
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I’m bumping this post for potential purchasers who consider the audiophile version.
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#433603 - 10/15/17 02:47 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Island Soul Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I’m bumping this post for potential purchasers who consider the audiophile version.


You need to be on PG Music's marketing team. They should pay you for advertisement like this.
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#433646 - 10/15/17 07:28 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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My take on this is really really simple.

I am using Real Tracks as a main component of work I am doing in my home studio for serious musical purposes in order to try and compete with people out there who have access to huge budgets and expensive studios and to try and sound as good or better than them.

For me, the audiophile choice is a no brainer and I can tell the difference instantly.

I am also an obsessive compulsive perfectionist, so when I hear audiophile's quality, I am stuck with it. I am blending the tracks with tracks I record myself with my own guitars and other instruments, and if I don't use audiophile, there is a noticeable difference between the tracks I record myself and the others. I want everything to sound thick, and rich and gorgeous like a bunch of musicians just left the room, so I am totally sold 100 percent on audiophile.

There is nothing else for me to say. My version is really short: audiophile.
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#433938 - 10/17/17 11:43 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Callie - PG Music Offline
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This is a great write-up that has turned into an even more informative thread - thank you so much!
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#433952 - 10/17/17 12:57 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Matt Finley Offline
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Thank you Callie, I appreciate that.

At the time I wrote this, you were just releasing BIAB 2017. Some readers suggested making this a sticky. Perhaps it would be helpful to reconsider doing that as you get closer to December and what we hope will be BIAB 2018.
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#433970 - 10/17/17 03:06 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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w Offline
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Is there a difference in the Audiophile files used in the Mac version and the PC version ?

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#433985 - 10/17/17 05:28 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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My understanding is the Mac version has MP4 lossy audio files and AIFF lossless audio files while the PC version has wma lossy files and WAV lossless audio files.

Both WAV and AIFF files contain the same uncompressed PCM audio content. The AIFF file format was created by Apple to also contain metadata like album cover graphics in iTunes whereas WAV files do not.
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#433987 - 10/17/17 05:42 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Callie - PG Music]
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David Snyder Offline
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Callie and Matt,

One thing that is bouncing around in different forums repetitively that I wish pro users could put to bed forever on some post or location somewhere on this board or website is whether Real Tracks (particularly audiophile) are like "recording" or "recording studio quality" or "can you have a million dollar recording studio" using Real Tracks.

The answer from me and many other pro users is YES, YES, YES, YES and YES, and one more time YES.

Plus, let's think about cost and the value of having the patience to learn how to really use Real Tracks and learn how to mix and master with them in a DAW.

The AVERAGE rate around here in the south for a reasonable "album" production song with a few studio musicians is about $2,000 PER SONG. I see artists shell out 20 grand for an album all the time--a few guitars, some vocals, drums, etc.

20 grand. Just like that.

I swear to heaven there are people on this forum who can take Real Tracks and Real Drums and add their own vocals and instrumentation and mixing and mastering skills in a good home studio and they sound better than stuff coming out of studios.

Because Real Tracks are just that: REAL TRACKS. Especially audiophile. Wav form tracks perfectly played. Pretty much what you would get in a studio after 8 hours if your people know how to play.

And YES, for the 100th time you can make an album with Band in a Box tracks.

Just wanted to see if I could point that out for the 101th time if Matt's post is going to become a sticky.

BIAB is not just a practice tool anymore.

YOU CAN MAKE AN ALBUM WITH IT AND IT DOES NOT COST 20 GRAND.

There, I can rest now.

smile

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/americana/id1294634821
_________________________
David Snyder
Audiophile Everything + Studio + Instruments + Fingers
ASCAP, NSAI

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#434003 - 10/17/17 08:42 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Matt Finley Offline
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David, I see you’re ASCAP. BMI here. Funny, I wrote a post along those lines just this morning; see if it speaks a little to what you are saying.

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=433787#Post433787
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#434024 - 10/18/17 05:41 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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< YES, for the 100th time you can make an album with Band in a Box tracks. >

David, that is the exactly the point of question two < "can you have a million dollar recording studio" using Real Tracks? > in another thread of the forum I started.

I'm thinking use of RealTracks is more common in commercial releases today than most realize.

If I were to hire the session musician that performs on a RealTrack I select and use on an original composition, the track that same musician would generate 'live' in a studio for me for that same original song, would be very similar to the track generated by BIAB. If the RealTrack is an acoustic strumming rhythm guitar, the same player, playing the same song in the same key, tempo and chord progression should sound similar. But the setup to record the same player, playing the same song with the same instrument, mic, studio, studio equipment, mics, etc will come at a much greater cost that likely exceeds one's investment in buying any version of BIAB. I can't think of any circumstance other than pure chance where a complete drum kit can be recorded live in most home studios sounding better than a studio recorded Real Track by a top session drummer.

BIAB tracks are no less real than a MIDI track recorded in a multi million dollar studio. No less real than a comped lead vocal. No less real than an instrument recorded on the west coast and the track sent to a studio on the east cost project. A real track is no less real in any recording project than a sample or loop.

There is no break in the recording chain of a Realtrack from its initial recording through the song creation in BIAB to the point of rendering the track to audio. Perhaps the difference in quality of a $99 interface DAC and a $6,500 commercial DAC affects the rendered product but that would be taken into consideration if a Real Track was desired by a producer to be included in a mainstream commercial release.
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#434042 - 10/18/17 08:39 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Callie - PG Music Offline
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It's sticky now smile
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#434069 - 10/18/17 12:24 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Callie - PG Music]
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David Snyder Offline
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Not yet Callie, I am about to post my magnum opus on another thread and reference this. Then it will be sticky.

smile

And I will be done.

For the next ten minutes anyway.

Hey by the way, could you guys run a flash sale on Xtra Styles 2 for 1 day and let me know when that day will be.

I know someone who needs it.

smile

_________________________
David Snyder
Audiophile Everything + Studio + Instruments + Fingers
ASCAP, NSAI

www.davidsnydermusic.com
www.reverbnation.com/davidpsnyder
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#443839 - 12/09/17 12:54 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Matt Finley Offline
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To my knowledge, this thread still applies fully to the new BIAB 2018.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#488245 - 08/28/18 04:51 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 25
Loc: San Diego, California
dunbar7376 Offline
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Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 25
Loc: San Diego, California
Hello All,

I have been using Band in a Box since easily sometime in the last millennium, but it was only last December (2018) that I finally splurged and purchased the audiophile version.

And I have to say, it sounds amazing!

Or does it? While playing back some songs I had written early in the year, I noticed some apparent artifacts in the strummed guitars and one or two cymbal crashes. I am reluctant to re-render at this stage, as the tunes are just about where I want them to be in terms of arrangement.

Still, I am curious to know if the tracks I have currently rendered are truly using the audiophile .wav files. Is there a way to confirm?

Dunbar7376 / Tom Marvan




Edited by dunbar7376 (08/28/18 04:52 PM)

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#488286 - 08/28/18 10:24 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Hi Tom. If you have installed the audiophile version correctly over your old version, BIAB is unquestionably using the .WAV files. If nothing else, they load a bit faster. BIAB first looks for .WAV files and only when they are not found does it load and uncompress a compressed file.

What you are hearing is likely from another reason. For example, are you at a tempo considerably different from the recommended tempo for that RealTrack?

Did you try turning off Fast Generation for that song in Options, RealTracks?

Do you have a Mac or PC? What are the specs? Or, perhaps easier, is your single-core Geekbench score over around 1500?

It is true, those are two out of the three sounds most likely to show artifacts of stretching pitch or tempo (along with sustained acoustic piano). If you lower or raise the key by a half or whole step, do you still hear anything wrong?
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#488666 - 08/30/18 10:08 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 25
Loc: San Diego, California
dunbar7376 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 25
Loc: San Diego, California
Hello Matt,

thank you for the kind reply.

"If you have installed the audiophile version correctly..." That's the $64,000 question!

In fact, in anticipation of the audiophile purchase, I bought a fresh new laptop last November and removed as much bloatware as possible, so that a fresh version of BinaBox could be installed.

My (then) new laptop was an HP Spectre X360 4K Ultra HD 15.6" touchscreen, with a core i7 8th CPU, 512GB solid state drive, 16GB RAM, Nvidia dedicated 2GB GDDR5 video, and Windows 10. At some point I plan to take advantage of the thunderbolt port for recording.

Typically I do select realtracks close to the tempo song (with some rare exceptions, with the few examples appearing to be bass instruments, not victims of artefacts, at least that my ear can hear).

I do have "speed up generation of real tracks" enabled. I will experiment and turn that off, but the specs of my machine should presumably be able to handle it. When I regenerate a song, the artefacts tend to go away on a new rendering, as they sometimes when I go up or down half a step.

I did a quick search in my bb directory and noticed that, under the realtracks directory, there are wma and BT1 files. There are absolutely no *.wav files anywhere on my computer (well, 3 or 4 songs ripped from a CD, but not in any bb directory).

I may owe someone $64,000. I don't think I did a full audiophile install. It was quite a process moving old files, getting the drivers to work etc., so I don't recall the install protocol I followed. I will dig out the shipped audiophile hard drive and compare the bb files there with those on my hard drive. I may have been reluctant to do a full install as my drive, although fast, is only 500GB new.

Thank you for your help!

Tom Marvan.

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#488844 - 09/01/18 12:23 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Tom, in a correct installation there will be both a WMA file and a WAV file for each sound, in the same folder. So I think you’ve answered your own question. PG Music Support could help you sort it out, but it does make sense that you did not install the audiophile version files to your laptop. That internal drive is not big enough; the audiophile version takes up about three times the size of your one drive! On a laptop with less than a 2 TB drive (and that’s almost all of them), you have to do the minimal install of BIAB but then be sure the RealTracks and RealDrums point to the external drive supplied by PG Music (and keep that plugged in). This setting is found in Options, Preferences, RealTracks (and same for RealDrums) where you select a Custom Folder.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#488949 - 09/01/18 09:23 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 08/25/08
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Loc: San Diego, California
dunbar7376 Offline
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Posts: 25
Loc: San Diego, California
Thank you, Matt. I think I have all that I need to step up to the next level of audio quality!

Well, with one clarification: it looks like I need to contact support to assist in a proper install. A simple redirect of the RealTracks and RealDrums to the external drive is not enough?

Tom.

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#488968 - 09/02/18 06:47 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Yes, since the program was already installed, a simple redirect to the files on the external drive is all that's needed (in the two places mentioned). Try it.

And now you have an easy way to compare the two types of sound.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#488981 - 09/02/18 09:23 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 10/31/08
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Noel96 Offline
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Tom,

In addition to Matt's very thorough advice, have a look under "Options | Prefereneces | Realtracks" and you'll see a setting for "Tempo/Pitch stretching quality" in the right column of settings.... make sure that this is set to 'High' as shown on the image below. If I recall correctly, I think it sets to 'Medium' by default.

Regards,
Noel


Attachments
tempo and pitch stretching quality.JPG


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#489065 - 09/02/18 08:25 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 25
Loc: San Diego, California
dunbar7376 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 25
Loc: San Diego, California
Thank you, Noel and Matt.

Indeed, the default was on medium and I have set it to high.

As far as Matt's very thorough advice, I know what I will be doing for the Labor Day holiday tomorrow!

Tom.

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#493476 - 09/29/18 12:41 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 19
Evenios Offline
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Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 19
nice info a bit of a shame the recording are not 24 bit audio instead of 16 as 24 bit is now the industry standard but to be honest as long as its cd quality i guess not a big deal :-) might get the new one once there is a sale i suspect this winter.

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#493786 - 10/01/18 03:58 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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If you like the idea of 24 bit Audiophile Edition RealTracks then please support my August 27, 2015 wishlist request by adding a +1 post to the thread.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2019 UltraPlusPak BiaB(634) RealBand(Build 5)
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Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#508265 - 12/10/18 08:13 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 09/20/17
Posts: 2
PatrickCambier Offline
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Registered: 09/20/17
Posts: 2
Hi all,
I understand the difference between WAV and WMA format. I'm interested to move to audiophile edition but is it possible to get from PGMusic 2 samples of a style -if possible jazz or bossa (one in WMA and one in WAV) to ear the difference ?

Thx

Patrick

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#508477 - 12/10/18 06:59 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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You could send an email to sales@pgmusic.com and ask.

An .MP3 posted here wouldn’t show any difference because the .MP3 would be compressed. And once we have the audiophile version, the program uses only the .WAV files.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#512768 - 12/26/18 06:46 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Matt Finley Offline
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To my knowledge, the info in this thread is still applicable for BIAB 2019.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#529297 - 03/19/19 01:46 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 30
Peter K. Hewer Offline
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Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 30
Thank you Matt for this info.

Peter

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#529669 - 03/21/19 11:07 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Matt Finley Offline
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Glad it may have helped, Peter. Thank you.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#543235 - 06/28/19 12:54 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Matt Finley Offline
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I wanted to send an appreciation to Joanne Cooper, performer and PG Music forums contributor, for republishing my article as this month's feature in her blog. Here's the current link: https://www.joannecooper.co.za/blog?p=1

Thank you, Joanne!
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#546155 - 07/20/19 08:00 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 242
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
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Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 242
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
What I find a little annoying about all this is that PG Music insists on delivering the Audiophile version on USB 3 drives. Between BIAB and Komplete, I have a shelf filling up with drives that I've used exactly once. My VIs and BAIB libraries are installed onto 2GB and 4GB SATA III SSDs as soon as I get them — far less clutter.

Is internet access on Vancouver Isle so slow that electronic delivery is not possible?

I'll admit that Native Instruments is a bit more puzzling. You can download Komplete and all upgrades but they send you the HDD anyway. What the???

And what's this ASCAP vs BMI nonsense anyway? The real enemy is someone else.
_________________________
BIAB Audiophile on 2017 iMac Pro, 128G RAM, 2T SSD, OS 10.14.6
Overture 5, DP 10, LogicProX, Finale 26, Encore 5.0.7, SmartScoreX2-P, Notion 6
Legacy G4-1K DP OS 10.4.11 / OS 9.2 Apps

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#546264 - 07/22/19 01:40 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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You’re right, the mention of BMI and ASCAP was an aside that is not relevant.

Your first comment belongs with others in the Wishlist. There have been good discussions there about requesting another form of delivery, particularly for those in Europe who have to pay the VAT on the value of each drive. Find one of those and contribute your support.

Those are wonderfully large SSD drives you have. I would guess most users do not have them that large yet, especially that one poster in this thread with a laptop. But if you feel ‘the need - for speed’, check out PCie drives. That’s my next wish!
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#546485 - 07/23/19 08:56 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 242
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 242
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Quote:
Those are wonderfully large SSD drives you have.

Prices have come way down... A 2TB MX500 is now $207 on Amazon and a 4TB 860 QVO is around $399. Plenty of 1TB drives under $100.

SATA III SSDs are just as fast over USB 3, 3.1, Thunderbolt 1/2/3, in a PCI card, SATA, eSATA... the SSD is the bottleneck. I get pushback whenever I post this but I've done the bench testing that proves this.
Quote:
But if you feel ‘the need - for speed’, check out PCie drives. That’s my next wish!

On the boot drive, oh yea. A fast 2TB 970 EVO is down to $479 while the slower 660p is now under $200. For external or additional internals, a waste of money for music production but, if doing video, heck yea.

Here's what they don't tell Mac owners: Over Thunderbolt 3, the maximum number of data lanes is 4. A single NVMe 3 x4 blade in a Samsung X5 is about as fast as a pair RAID 0 in a twin enclosure (the slots become x2) or a quad where the slots become x1. Fine for JBOD but not for speed.

If I needed PCIe storage, I'd order up a Mac Pro in a couple of months and sell my iMac Pro. I'll assume that your PC could take them now. With fast blades such as the 970 EVO, it'll scream. Even the slow, inexpensive blades such as the Intel 660p have way more than enough giddyup for audio. I installed a 660p into my daughter's mid-2015 MacBook Pro and that rocks over the AHCI that Apple installed.

SATA III externals are fine for anything I'm doing now and, if I needed faster, a 2TB X5 is $800—with 2 TB3 busses, I could connect a pair without a speed hit.
_________________________
BIAB Audiophile on 2017 iMac Pro, 128G RAM, 2T SSD, OS 10.14.6
Overture 5, DP 10, LogicProX, Finale 26, Encore 5.0.7, SmartScoreX2-P, Notion 6
Legacy G4-1K DP OS 10.4.11 / OS 9.2 Apps

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#555115 - 09/16/19 04:35 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Tip: differences between the 'regular' and audiophile version [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18997
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
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Mike, you have some really good knowledge in this area. My knowledge is increasingly aging out. Since you are from a certain area of California, might you be connected with one of the fine companies there?
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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-Look Ma! More MIDI 2
-MIDI SuperTracks Set 29: More Organ, Piano & Accordion

Xtra Styles PAK 7 for Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Special Extended!

The verdict is in, and everyone agrees that Xtra Styles PAK 7 is incredible!

There are 164 unbelievable new RealStyles that await you in Xtra Styles PAK 7! We've dreamed up some surprising new arrangements for your songwriting, production, and teaching needs in four volumes: Jazz 7, Country 7, Rock/Pop 7, and Americana 2.

The possibilities seem endless with these fully-produced styles, like atmospheric folk, Western swing chicken pickin', dreamy Southern rock, smooth jazz with world percussion, Brazilian samba, acoustic grunge, and '90s R&B. We've even included two great new MultiStyles that use up to eight substyles! Do yourself a favor and take home this comprehensive and imaginative collection of styles today!

SPECIAL EXTENDED!!! Get all 164 new RealStyles in the All Xtra Styles PAK 7 for only $29 until October 31st! (Reg. $49)

Specific genre packages are also available for $15 each!

For more information and to listen to demos, click here.

Mac user? You'll find your Xtra Styles PAKs here.

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Build 309 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac customers can download the latest FREE patch update here.

Summary of changes for Build 309:
Fixed: The Chord Builder is disabled if previously opened before using a modal dialog (eg. Style Picker, Set Tempo).
Fixed: The program might crash when selecting RealTracks in the Best RealTracks dialog (eg. #2541).
Fixed: Wrong notes in Oohs and Aahs RealTracks.
Improved: Higher dots-per-inch printing.
Added: [Print Chords Only] button added to the Print Options dialog.

EXTENDED! Our Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Ends October 31st!

You haven't missed our Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac special, which has been extended to October 31st!

There's still time to purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Upgrade at up to 50% off, and receive a FREE Bonus PAK full of great Add-ons!

Plus, our latest Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac is compatible with the just-released macOS Catalina - upgrades start at just $49!

Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2019 Build 2 Update Available!

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2019 users can download the FREE Build 2 patch update here

Summary of Changes in Build 2:
Fixed: Sometimes the position of the VST/DX plugs window (even if not visible) would prevent a drop, such as into the drop station, from occurring.
Fixed: When batch converting files, the volume of some file types such as wav/mp3/wma/mp4, etc. would be too low.
Fixed: In Chords Window, you could not enter held chords on Piano track.
Fixed: LeadSheet might not display tied notes on the last bar of a track.
Fixed: Pressing "M" key in Editable Notation to insert a new note at the current time location on the Staff was inserting a duplicate note rather than inserting it above an existing note.
Fixed: Loading in a MusicXML file could result in MIDI notes of zero instead of the currect MIDI notes.
Fixed: Dragging a file into the tracks window didn't always result in the effects slot for the track being setup properly for the file type dragged in.
Fixed: When inserting hard rest, and answering Yes to question about removing notes for the peg, it would remove notes from both clefs instead of the clef that the rest was inserted on.
Fixed: Potential access violation when deleting a note in staff window.
Fixed: Potential jukebox access violation if there were songs with the entire path of the filename being 256 characters or greater loaded into jukebox.
Fixed: Jukebox not playing the playlist in correct order in certain situations involving stopping/restarting, etc.
Fixed: When loading in a MusicXML file that has a specific guitar fretboard defined that matches one of our fretboards, the guitar tablature type will now be set for the notation.
Fixed: Ability to load in .MXL (compresssed musicXML file) as well as ability to load normal noncompressed musicXML file with the new .musicxml extension instead of just .XML.
Fixed: Hammer ons, pull offs, and slides are now being saved to MusicXML files.
Fixed: Exceptionally jittery timing indicator in the notation window during playback compared to older versions of RealBand.
Fixed: If the start of a generated section of a song didn't have a chord entered at the beginning of the section, then it could default to a C major chord instead of the most recent chord prior to the section.
Fixed: Potential access violation if song has micro-pegs and multiple notes on a peg.
Fixed: Accidental element that specified whether a note was displayed as sharp/flat wasn't eing saved to XML, even though the correct pitch of the note itself was saved.

RealBand 2019 Build 5 Update Available!

All RealBand 2019 for Windows customers can download the latest FREE patch update (build 5) here.

Summary of Changes in Build 5 (Oct 10)
Fixed: Sometimes the position of the VST/DX plugs window (even if not visible) would prevent a drop, such as into the drop station, from occurring.
Fixed: When batch converting files, the volume of some file types such as wav/mp3/wma/mp4, etc. would be too low.
Fixed: In Chords Window, you could not enter held chords on Piano track.
Fixed: LeadSheet might not display tied notes on the last bar of a track.
Fixed: Pressing "M" key in Editable Notation to insert a new note at the current time location on the Staff was inserting a duplicate note rather than inserting it above an existing note.

Notation Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2019 64-bit for macOS Catalina

With Band-in-a-Box® 2019 64-bit for Mac we added Drum Notation Support, and we didn't stop there! Other Notation Enhancements added in this new version are:

-A new track type (Drums) is available for the Melody and Soloist tracks.
-Clicking close to a stave line will put a note on the stave line instead of between stave lines. Previously, you had to click extremely close to a stave line to insert a note on it.
-Holding down the control key and pressing the zoom in/out buttons results in finest possible incremental adjustment in size.
-In the Notation Window Options dialog, the clefs split point asterisk indicates that C5* is middle C.
-Notation is much clearer, not jagged, on retina screens.
-The clefs split point can be set by the spin controls.
-The right-click menu in the Editable or Staff Roll mode Notation window has an option to change the current beat resolution. Previously, the only way to do this was to right-click on the time line.
-There is a keystroke entry mode, which lets you enter a melody entirely using keystrokes. The keystrokes are N to enter a note, M to enter a third note, up/down cursor to change the pitch of the highlighted note, and left/right cursor to move the time line.
-You can quickly enter forced accidentals from the right-click menu.

Read more about the Notation Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2019 64-bit for Mac here. Watch this feature 'in action' with our new features video - jump to this topic when you click here.

...and don't forget - Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac upgrades are ON SALE until October 15th, up to 50% off! Order now!

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