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#460136 03/03/18 04:35 AM
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This happened when I upgraded to 2018. I have old version still and it is ok there. I use standard jazz 1 3 1234 count in. I displayed the metronome and that seems ok. It just does not make a sound on beat 1. I have installed the latest patches. This happens on a new blank song as well as existing songs. Thanks.

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Just so you know you’re not crazy, I get this too.

I’m not sure what causes it. It’s not serious enough for me to have spent time, but now I will. I suspect it’s some setting in Preferences, Count-in/Metronome that you and I have in common. Can you post back and tell me what your setting is?

You play alto?


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Thanks, glad I'm not losing it, at least about this smile I have the count set as 1-3- 1234. It is same setting I used in previous version. I play tenor, alto, sop.

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Soprano here, as a double (flugelhorn is the main horn). I can't play my Mark VI tenor anymore - arthritis.

I'll look at my settings when I get home.


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Here are my settings. These are not particularly based on thorough testing; I just happen to have these. At the moment I AM getting beat one of 1,3, 1234.

Allow lead in bar - checked
1-bar lead in - NOT checked
Play lead in - checked
Lead in type pulldown - Count-in
Audible lead in - checked
Volume 64
Instrument - Open hi conga 63
Pattern - 1-3 1234
Smart lead in - NOT checked


Tell me if any of your settings are different.

Also, what is the tempo and style of your song?


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Same as yours but I think it has something to do with midi settings. I checked VSTi/Dxi and No GM2. Now it will play all the beats but it does not matter what instrument I select - it is always a sidestick. Temp 190 JazzBop.

Last edited by crashkahuna; 03/03/18 09:32 AM.
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I'm remembering one other area: there is a setting to coordinate the timing of MIDI and audio.

This would be different on everyone's individual setup, with no way to really compare settings. In other words, if the MIDI must be adjusted to sound early, it might get clipped. On the other hand, you can set the count-in to be played by the B section of the RealDrums, if I recall correctly.

I use an external MIDI synth, so I can't help with any differences caused by using a VSTi.

Anybody else have this problem?

Last edited by Matt Finley; 03/03/18 09:37 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley

Anybody else have this problem?

Yes! One my main performing system, the first beat of the count-in invariably is lost. Not always, but mostly. I sounds as though the count in starts just before the audio-sub-system is activated. Sometimes I hear what sounds like the very end of that first beat, playing quite softly. That system uses the Focusrite 18i20 for the audio.

To boot, that same system often plays a single side-stick (rim shot) after the end of the song. Most annoying.


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Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley

Anybody else have this problem?

Yes! One my main performing system, the first beat of the count-in invariably is lost. Not always, but mostly. I sounds as though the count in starts just before the audio-sub-system is activated. Sometimes I hear what sounds like the very end of that first beat, playing quite softly. That system uses the Focusrite 18i20 for the audio.

To boot, that same system often plays a single side-stick (rim shot) after the end of the song. Most annoying.


Hmm. That ending shot may be the beginning missing click. We had a go-around about this many years ago.


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For me it now seems ok when I do not freeze tracks but regen each time I play.

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Hi,

I haven't been able to replicate this issue yet.

Are you using RealDrums or MIDI drums?

Also, let's go to Options - Preferences - Audio. What's selected as the Audio Driver Type, MME, WAS, or ASIO?

Thanks
Kent
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Crash, so you find a difference in this based on whether or not the tracks are frozen? Interesting clue.

Kent, in my case, I've used nothing but RealDrums for the past ten years.


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Thanks Matt.

In that case, the Instrument, Pattern, and Volume settings for the count-in won't be relevant, they only apply to MIDI drums.

Which audio driver type are you using? I've tried with tracks frozen and unfrozen, with MME, ASIO, and WAS, and still get a full count-in, but if everyone with this problem is using the same type, that might be a clue.

I'd also be interested in knowing whether changing audio driver types makes a difference when this problem occurs.

The next time this happens to anyone, if they could make a note of whether the VU meter on the mixer for the Drums track shows a signal for the missing count-in beats, that'll tell us if they're generating but can't be heard, or if they're not generating at all.

Thanks
Kent
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I will look next time.

I use ASIO but can also use MME. The WAS driver gives me no audio.


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Thanks Matt!

I'm sure we'll figure this out, one way or another. smile

Cheers
Kent
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Thanks Kent for your involvement.

My Audio is set to MME.

All tracks are RealTracks, no MIDI in use at all.

All songs are frozen, I generally don't generate at all.


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Great, thanks VideoTrack.

If anyone notices any other details, like specific styles having this issue more than others, please let me know. I'll keep trying to replicate it on my end.

Cheers
Kent
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As i use ASIO, never used WAS, i didn't know about anything wrong. But if needed, PM me your frozen file, or ask for my normal email (some of you have it i guess), and i'll test it in the 3 modes; you guys always jump in to help everybody. The only 'bug' i noticed happens rarely, is that audio (Realdrums) and midi are out of sync with 512 BTW, on first start after loading a song, and it seems happening sometimes later at a bar measure count change. Regenerating fixes that permanently. ... F

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Hi Kent, thanks again for stepping in.

It seems that this is not isolated, and many users have reported. I've tried MME, ASIO and WAS, unfreezing, regenerating, changing endings etc, all without change. All of the songs use RealDrums.

I've sent you more information on this with demonstrations and further details in the testing area.

Please let me know of any further tests or assistance I might provide.

I'm guessing (hoping?) that PG Music will look seriously at the way the count-in works, especially liberating it from a global setting. I remain (long time) optimistic. Maybe this could finally resolve the issue.

Trevor


Last edited by VideoTrack; 03/18/18 12:55 AM. Reason: Added optimism comment about how the count-in currently works

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Any update on this issue? I have this problem as well and it's a big turn off. In 4/4 mesure, most of the time I get 3 count in instead of 4 before the song starts. This is very frustrating!

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Rob,

What version of BIAB are you using?

Regards,
--Noel


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Originally Posted by RobSerry
Any update on this issue? I have this problem as well and it's a big turn off. In 4/4 mesure, most of the time I get 3 count in instead of 4 before the song starts. This is very frustrating!
This is like a 5 year old thread being revisited. I'm not sure if this helps but there are options for the count-in such as the two identified here.
Could either of those be selected?

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I just upgraded to 2024. Did not had that problem with 2019 version.

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Originally Posted by RobSerry
I just upgraded to 2024. Did not had that problem with 2019 version.
Try this as a starting point.
With one of the problem songs loaded, Go to Song settings ( <Ctrl> N )
Place a tick in this check box, press OK and regenerate the song.
[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]
See if the problem persists.


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Thanks, I will try that!

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Unfortunately your suggestion has not fix the problem.

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What is the Style of one of the problematic songs?


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I have this problem with almost every style we use. I can't remember when it started, but certainly on 2023 and now on Audiophile 2024.

Here's one now: _FUNKMED.STY. Funk w/ Vintage Electric Piano.

Doesn't seem to matter what settings I change - 1-bar count-in same as two-bar. Audio driver settings don't matter - I tried two different sound cards.

Last edited by bullmoon; 01/16/24 02:48 PM.
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Hi Bullmoon.

I just tried _FUNKMED and I definitely had the drums counting beat 1. The image below shows my settings.

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

I'm using build 1109. This hasn't yet been released to the public but Andrew made it available a few days ago. So if you'd like to install it and try it...

https://update.pgmusic.com/support/patch/bb2024_win_update_build1109.exe

Regards,
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A few more observations that I don't understand...

- On the Count-in dialog box, the "Instrument" setting does nothing. Nothing changes when I make changes to it. Why? I can choose any sound in the list and it has no effect

- If I Mute the Drum Track, the Count-in sound is different than otherwise and there is NO quiet beat or cut off beat - all the count-in beats sound the same. (Must also have "Lead-in drum count if drums muted" checked)

- The above is TRUE also when I UN-check "Audible Lead-in", but without the Drum Track Muted, there is no count-in - it's silent. With "Audible Lead-in" checked and Drum Track un-muted, I hear the count-in from the drum track with the missing or quiet first count.

Seems like "Audible Lead-In" makes the count-in come from the realdrums and muted drums causes the count-in to be some mystery count-in sound that works properly. The Instrument setting does nothing.

I would have figured after all this time, this would be fixed, so maybe I'm doing something wrong - just can't figure it out.

Last edited by bullmoon; 01/16/24 03:46 PM.
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The only trick I have found so far, that is not a great workaround really, is to mute the drum track and re-add the drums to one of the Utility Tracks and un-Check "Audible Lead-In" and "Lead-in drum count if drums muted" checked. Now I get the mystery count-in sound, but there are no cut off or quiet beats. The problem with this workaround is that any Chord or Bar settings affecting drums have to be redone. I have already had to do this to one song that used a Loop instead of drums - worked fine in 2023, but in 2024, there was no count-in at all without making the changes I have described, re-adding the loop into Utility track and then muting the original Loop, then fixing all the Chord settings - PITA!

I'm trying to grasp the ramifications of doing this for all our songs that have a "broken" count-in. Would be way easier if this entire count-in dialog made sense and worked correctly.

Last edited by bullmoon; 01/16/24 03:48 PM.
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Originally Posted by Noel96
Hi Bullmoon.

I just tried _FUNKMED and I definitely had the drums counting beat 1.
Regards,
--Noel

Thanks, I will try this and post back. Are you hearing the first count-in beat at the same volume as the rest? I do hear it, but it is very quiet, then the next count is I expect it to be; very audible.

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Originally Posted by bullmoon
Thanks, I will try this and post back. Are you hearing the first count-in beat at the same volume as the rest? I do hear it, but it is very quiet, then the next count is I expect it to be; very audible.
Try this and see if it makes a difference:
Song Settings (<Ctrl>N ), and disable fast generation:

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Hi Bullmoon.

Quote
On the Count-in dialog box, the "Instrument" setting does nothing. Nothing changes when I make changes to it. Why? I can choose any sound in the list and it has no effect

The choice of instrument works for MIDI instrument. With Realdrums, the count-in instruments are preset. If you choose a MIDI-only style and if the drum track is "green" (which indicates that Realdrums are present), then right-click on the Drum track in the Mixer and choose "Force drums track to MIDI drums", you'll be able to try out the instruments. Make sure to regenerate after selecting this option, though, and then regenerate each time after a change is made. The various settings that you put in place simply tell BIAB how you would like it to organise the backing track when it is generated. With this in mind, the final step after any change whatsoever is usually "Regenerate".

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As the image above shows, when you have MIDI drums in place, the track will be yellow.

BIAB's colour coding system... yellow = MIDI, green = audio (Realdrums, Realtracks), light blue = MIDI Supertrack.

I hope this helps,
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Bullmoon,

What would you like to have happen? Maybe someone on here knows how to achieve what you are after and they will be able to jump in and help.

Regards,
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Originally Posted by Noel96
Bullmoon,

What would you like to have happen? Maybe someone on here knows how to achieve what you are after and they will be able to jump in and help.

Regards,
--Noel

All I'm after is a consistent count-in no matter what style I use. I think NO count-ins for a style with a loop, for example _HOPHORN.STY Hip Hop Beat w/ Horns, is a 2024 bug - new to me after this update to 2024 (any build). The problem with the first count on Real Drum styles being quiet or silent is an older issue that nothing I have tried, other than the convoluted workaround I outlined above, works to fix the count-in.

The 1109 build did not affect or improve on any of these issues.

If you can play either of those styles and hear a count-in with each hit being the same volume, that's much different from what I'm getting and would love to know how to fix it.

I've attached a jpeg of a recording of what I typically hear for a count-in. Notice how low the level is for the initial hit - so quiet, some would not hear it at all.

Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
count-in.png (8.07 KB, 68 downloads)
Last edited by bullmoon; 01/16/24 10:44 PM.
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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Originally Posted by bullmoon
Thanks, I will try this and post back. Are you hearing the first count-in beat at the same volume as the rest? I do hear it, but it is very quiet, then the next count is I expect it to be; very audible.
Try this and see if it makes a difference:
Song Settings (<Ctrl>N ), and disable fast generation:

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

I don't think that has worked for anyone.

Changing the audio interface and ASIO driver doesn't do anything.
Changing the various settings in the Count-in dialog doesn't help.
Changing the processing quality in the ASIO driver doesnt help.
I have not found any RealTrack of RealDrum preference settings that help.

I am curious to know if anyone who has ever experienced this issue has solved it? And I'm starting to think that not everyone experiences it - that really quiet first count-in hit?

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Thanks for the graphic, Bullmoon. That helps heaps.

Now that I can see what you mean, I can reproduce it. Using the style _FUNKMED.STY, when I drag the drum track to Reaper, it's easy to see from the wav file that the first count is significantly quieter than the other counts.

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

I'll report this to the development team for you and I'll refer them to your posts.

I know that this is a work around, but hopefully it will allow you to solve the problem while waiting for PG Music to address it.

1) Enter into Audio Edit (#1 on the image below).
2) Select the Drums track (#2).
3) Activate the volume nodes (#3)
4) Enter three nodes as shown on the image so that the volume of beat 1 is increased and then returned to normal volume before the second drum note (#4).
(The nodes can be positioned by dragging them vertically up and down the screen.)

Note: The drums for _FUNKMED.STY are stereo. It's only necessary to adjust the volume of one channel. The second channel will update automatically.

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I hope this helps,
--Noel


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Bullmoon,

An alternative approach (also using Audio Edit) would be...

1) Enter Audio Edit.
2) Activate snap (#1).
3) Select the Drums track (#2)
4) Zoom in on the waveform view using the mouse's scroll.
5) Drag across beat 1 and a regions after it (#3).
6) Select "Amplify" from the drop-down "Edit" menu.
7) Enter a value between 3 and 6 when the option appears.

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@Noel96

Thanks, Noel, for the confirmation.

What I have also found is the same thing happens with exporting to an audio file. The exported file is trimmed at the beginning. I think the way things are being rendered, to a file or for playback, the rendering is partially chopping off the first beat or not ramping up in time to catch it. My guess is that some styles have enough samples ahead of the audio to not get cut off whereas others edited more tightly get cut off. But I really have no idea how the rendering engine works - just a guess.

What I should do is test an export with no count in to see if any of the band is cut off on the first beat, or if the issue is only with count-ins. I'll try this out later when I get a chance.

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Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.

This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245

The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option

Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!

Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!

For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.

Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.

Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!

Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.

Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.

Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!

Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!

With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!

Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

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