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#499390 - 11/04/18 07:39 AM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added*
Registered: 03/07/18
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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Posts: 871
Hello PG.

Before getting into BIAB, I watched many videos. Some on PG site, some on YouTube.
Some I found very informative, but most not creative enough. Meaning, most of videos are based on specific technical issue and not on creative side of the project as whole.

Joanne Cooper, was one of very few who actually applied BIAB to real song from start to ending, and did it with heart:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqGvnE1HNqo&t=876s
Her videos are good, but do not go into more complex things much.

I would like to request a video that deals specifically with more complex Intros/ Bridge(s)/Ending in one song/one project. Let me explain a little more. I am used to do backing tracks on arrangers and arranger based software. With those, usually a musical variations are present for intros, breaks and endings, which are very distinct from the rest of the style. Meaning, you can not mistake an "intro" from the main chorus.

I am struggling quite a bit with that in BIAB. Creating vivid transition parts such as intros, bridges, endings...

I know, it is probably too much to ask and most likely will be forwarded to video clips that deal specifically with each part... But, It would be helpful to have a full video that deals with complete pop/rock song with standard structure with distinct/vivid intros, bridge and ending. From start to end. Not rushing through things and explaining items from the point view of musician and not as salesperson. (Sorry to say, but I found many videos on PG "how-to" sounded more like sales pitch ad rather than help videos)

I believe such tutorial would help me and many others to visualize whole song construction ideas and workflow. Also would be helpful to those who are considering on becoming members.

Thank you,
Misha.

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#499485 - 11/04/18 05:29 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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+1

One issue though is what song to use as the subject for the video? There are a lot of public domain songs but I can't think of any pop songs that are in the public domain. Any hints?
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#499493 - 11/04/18 06:19 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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Jim, I honestly think genre is irrelevant for this demo.
I said pop, just from the perspective that it is more universal, but I respect country, rock, R&B or any other genre/style as long as it can be used as a good visual example of making a complete song structure, with nice intro, transitions, ending, etc. Main task of this project should be to show how muscle features of BIAB can be applied in making complete song smile

If it ever happens, I think it is wise for the person who is going to be making video to choose the style he/she is more comfortable with, so whole process goes smoother. (just not abstract electronic or rap please... nothing against these styles, but I feel they would be a poor choice for this task)

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#499652 - 11/05/18 01:54 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 08/20/11
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Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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The idea is a good one. It is a video, or even a video series, that could be a great learning experience and well worth the time required to make and watch.

Sometimes though a great idea is not followed through because it is too easy to find a reason to reject the idea. The best reason I could come up with for PG Music not to make the video was because they are not going to make a video that includes the melody or riffs of a popular or rock song protected by copyright. PG Music is very conscious of copyright and does not do anything that could even hint at copyright infringement.

Now that my question has been answered I can't think of any other obstacle PG Music might encounter.

Once again, +1 in support of the request. Hopefully, other forum members will appreciate the idea as I do and lend their support.
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#499677 - 11/05/18 03:04 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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Jim...
I think PG has wealth of their own material to assemble "generic" song using their demo songs progressions or similar for tutorial purposes smile
But of course, "generic" not in terms of simplicity.

Another thought, If it ever comes to life to make it in "follow me" approach/tutorial.

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#500308 - 11/08/18 06:26 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 11/05/08
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Kent - PG Music Offline
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Here you go, enjoy!




Thanks
Kent
PG Music


Edited by Alyssa - PG Music (11/09/18 12:30 PM)

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#500432 - 11/09/18 12:40 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Kent,

Thank you for the video. My one complaint is I wish you included your use of the Melodist to generate the chord chart. Your chord chart already had more chord variety than most of the songs I've made! blush

Two suggestions for future videos: 1) You may want to clearly identify which version (Windows or Mac) of Band-in-a-Box is used in the video demonstration. 2) When the two versions differ, demonstrate how you would achieve the same result in the different version.

For example I noticed this video was created using 2018 BiaB for Windows. Would a person using 2018 BiaB for Mac be able to follow the same steps and achieve similar results?

I think user requested video tutorials is a FANTASTIC idea. It is great to see how someone that is intimately familiar with the software uses it with minimal effort or steps.
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Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#500486 - 11/09/18 06:23 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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Kent, Thank you!
I am glad to find that my workflow is similar to the one in your Demo. Making of the "ending section" was very helpful to me. Overall great stuff. I watched it twice, but I am 100% sure, I will come back to it.


In the manner of Jim I will allow myself to express a couple of small complaints/concerns smile Now, these are not from my perspective, but looking at this through the lens of someone who just started. Some things just need a few more seconds of explanation. For example "style change at the bar" I think it should be explained a bit more of what is actually happening, when this is done. Again, when I watched it, I had some knowledge that was shared by fellow members and some that I picked up by experimenting, but to someone new, it might be a bit confusing.

Also the "ending creation" section. Same thing. I had some prior knowledge and it was awesome to see everything happening in one project, but to someone new the "tag" part might be a bit confusing. A few more seconds of explanation there might clear the fog. Something like: When you type the start tag bar- it does this. If you change it to X- it does that.


Otherwise, I think it is one of the best complete track/backing track videos available, which shows some key power tools of BIAB. Honestly, I think this video should be the first one in the "beginners" section, so people can get a sense of how they can navigate in BIAB, how it reacts to changes, etc. Whole workflow!

One feature that I think might be very useful for video tutorials is this. For example you start talking about intros in this project, put a link there for something that already exists in video tutorials for intros, so if someone says: Wow! I want to know more on this, all they have to do "rewind" your video to the section of interest, click on the "related video(s)" link and he/she is where they need to be. Just a suggestion smile

Kent,
Thank you!

Misha.

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#500499 - 11/09/18 07:45 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 11/05/08
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Kent - PG Music Offline
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Hi Misha,

Thanks for the feedback, and I'm glad this was helpful!

Cheers
Kent
PG Music

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#500502 - 11/09/18 07:50 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: Jim Fogle]
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Kent - PG Music Offline
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Hi Jim,

Thanks for the feedback! This was made with the Windows version, but everything shown works identically in the Mac version, so Mac users can follow it as well without getting lost. That's why I didn't mention the operating system, but I'll keep this in mind.

Regarding the chords, any chord progression I write is pretty elementary, so the Melodist is a lifesaver. I make electronic music so am more of a techie/sound designer than proper musician in the traditional sense.

To be perfectly honest, I just picked the first melodist in the list and kept trying until I liked the result, but may make another video that contains that step too if you figure it'll be useful.

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

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#501110 - 11/13/18 09:16 AM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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mrgeeze Offline
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Kent,
Very nice, thanks.
Like others, this is very similar to my workflow.
I currently use most or all of the features you outlined to build my backing tracks.

Wondering whether there are additional tips or tricks to build on this knowledge to further enhance our work.

Perhaps an advanced video?

Thanks again,
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#501132 - 11/13/18 11:58 AM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: mrgeeze]
Registered: 04/07/13
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: mrgeeze
Kent,
Very nice, thanks.
Like others, this is very similar to my workflow.
I currently use most or all of the features you outlined to build my backing tracks.

Wondering whether there are additional tips or tricks to build on this knowledge to further enhance our work.

Perhaps an advanced video?

Thanks again,


One thing to add an additional level of complexity to your song similar to Kent's changing of Styles is to also make use of BIAB's ability to change out up to 10 instruments per track.

Another technique I do is to also enter my chord chart and select a midi style from House, Hip Hop, etc that's mostly percussion, mute any non-percussion instruments and render the percussion to an audio track, import that audio and move it as a Performance Track to the Drums channel. I then select a new Style and import the new Style, force the RealDrums to Midi (this brings up the Performance Track) and generate. This is necessary to activate the Performance Track to play. The Performance Track replaces the Drums and provides a modern groove to your song.


Edited by Charlie Fogle (11/13/18 03:04 PM)
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#501154 - 11/13/18 03:06 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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Charlie, that would be an interesting video smile

I believe somebody asked for sequential tutorial(s) before. I think the approach that I described couple of posts above could be very helpful with "show me how" tutorials. For example, where Kent talks about a "style change" a link in the video, to the style change only related videos.. Sort of advanced topic on the subject. I think that makes a lot of sense with organizing these tutorials. I feel this approach would be very helpful to beginners and intermediate users. A "live" manual with easy navigation into topics of interest smile


P.S. Also, it should save time of re-recording things to get to the point of discussion.

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#501282 - 11/14/18 11:53 AM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 04/07/13
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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Would love to do videos but so far every software program I've tried has failed due to the graphics card (on the motherboard) is incompatible. This desktop I use is older and I'm not wanting to put a lot into upgrades. It's 2009-2010 vintage and so is my laptop. I have a new Win 10 All in One but don't have any of my music software installed on it. I purchased the SampleTank Max software at the last sale and holding it for 'future' use...

I'm really glad to see PGMusic taking the initiative to doing these new "show me how" tutorial videos and they've been an instant hit with me. There's a lot of promise with them and happy to see folks making suggestions to improve the quality and value of them.
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#503436 - 11/23/18 03:11 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Icelander Offline
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For me the most interesting part of that whole vid was just the bit where Mr. Kent was able to create a very convincing "Part C", something that I've been hoping (actually requesting) to be an actual part of at least future RT sets, if not past & present.
By "very convincing" I'm especially thinking of how cleverly the RT set for the C-part was selected in terms of its instrument (particularly the bass & drums), which I assure you is not nearly as straight forward and easy to do as Mr. Kent made it look!
Case in point: I'm currently working on a project, where the intention was to go from swung reggae to a more trad swing mid song, and that seemingly simple idea is proving to be near impossible in praxis with RT's, primarily due to how the bass & drum kits used are so vastly different in sound, that the overall effect is rather like I've suddenly cut and pasted in something from a completely different group of people playing completely different instruments in a completely different studio! crazy

So kudos to the maker of that clip for pulling off such a near-impossible feat cool


Edited by Icelander (11/23/18 03:29 PM)
Edit Reason: Further details
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#504540 - 11/27/18 07:20 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Kent - PG Music Offline
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To be perfectly honest, that was the first style I tried. It really was as easy as it looked like in the video. smile

I did listen to the audio demo in the StylePicker, saw that the tempo was right, and the vibe was similar to the original style but different enough to be noticeable, and clicked OK.

I'm a reggae DJ though, which probably gave me somewhat of an advantage.

Cheers
Kent
PG Music

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#504737 - 11/28/18 01:37 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: Kent - PG Music]
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Icelander Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kent - PG Music
To be perfectly honest, that was the first style I tried. It really was as easy as it looked like in the video. smile
In that case, then in my book that's a fluke - which are even harder to pull off! grin


Edited by Icelander (11/28/18 01:37 PM)
Edit Reason: Correcting mistakes
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#506895 - 12/05/18 02:30 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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photodoc Offline
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+1 to OP Misha --- I would also like to see a complete project video, with a more in depth explanation for someone just starting out.
I'm "tech savvy", but just a beginner at music, and trying to use BIAB to help learn to play keyboard, and as a learning tool for music theory in general.

Now, I see that PGMusic sells a product from Groove 3, a course explaining BIAB, for $40. Wouldn't mind paying that, but it's for version BIAB 2015.
How about something that focuses on BIAB 2019, and the tricks to use the VST plugin now?

Thanks, Jerry
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#506938 - 12/05/18 05:58 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: photodoc]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: photodoc
+1 to OP Misha --- I would also like to see a complete project video, with a more in depth explanation for someone just starting out.
I'm "tech savvy", but just a beginner at music, and trying to use BIAB to help learn to play keyboard, and as a learning tool for music theory in general.

Now, I see that PGMusic sells a product from Groove 3, a course explaining BIAB, for $40. Wouldn't mind paying that, but it's for version BIAB 2015.
How about something that focuses on BIAB 2019, and the tricks to use the VST plugin now?

Thanks, Jerry


Jerry,

Groove 3 offers two Band-in-a-Box videos. The 2015 video series covers features using 2015 BiaB for Windows while a 2014 video covers features for BiaB for Mac.

Both video series feature almost two hours of instruction spread over more than twenty videos ranging between 3 to 8 minutes in length each.

+++ HERE +++ is a link describing the Band-in-a-Box for Windows video tutorial series in more detail. It also has a link to the BiaB for Mac video series. Check out the link and I think you'll find the series offers much of what you want. +++ HERE +++ is a link to a two page pdf file describing the video series and each of the videos.

I've seen both video series and own the Windows series. I feel very comfortable in stating the videos are the fastest and easiest way to learn how to use Band-in-a-Box and suggesting the videos to others.

Groove 3 offers many music theory and audio production video series. The company has a monthly \ annual subscription streaming option called "All Access" as well as download capability.
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2019 BiaB (628) UltraPlusPak RB 2019 (Build 3)
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i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#507250 - 12/06/18 04:14 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Creating Intros / Bridges / Ending that are distinct in one project *Video Added* [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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photodoc Offline
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Thanks Jim, appreciate the recommendation to give the course a try. I've tried other courses from them, and I know they do a pro job.

My hesitation is that the 2015 version is 4 years old now, but probably for a beginner, getting a starting point is more important.
Theoretically, it should be at least "easier" then, to figure out the newer features. I'll take your word for it.

I would make a comparison to learning Photoshop...... another intimidating program at first, but getting tutorials on "strategies" and "workflow" is what really helped me. Short tips and tricks are great, but getting the big picture is the hardest part!
Jerry
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