Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Hi Andrew

Yes but how will you know how long the note should be.
It may be a tied note carried across to the next bar to underlie those notes and complete a chord.
And in any case could be a whole note half note or quarter note etc in which case it will be ms in time compared to tempo as well.
Very perplexing.
Mike


BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro
Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth
Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt

http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,939
Veteran
Online Content
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,939
Although the solution here appears to involve MIDI commands as I had first guessed, Mike makes good points about cables, and it's a very simple thing to rule out by swapping. Also, a USB cable should not be over 14 feet in length, preferably well shorter.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 68
R
Enthusiast
OP Offline
Enthusiast
R
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 68
Originally Posted By: Andrew - PG Music
Quote:
then another E4 NOTE ON, with no NOTE OFF in between.


Right exactly, so the problem is conceptually very simple... just a missing note off. There aren't extra messages.

...


Andrew,

There are the same number of ON and OFF messages in the file (227). In the cases I checked, there is an OFF corresponding each ON. But you could look at the lines that I marked and make the interpretation that one of the OFF messages got delayed till after the next ON message was received. (As if an OFF got lost in a traffic jam on the MIDI bus!) Lots of possible interpretations.

Ed

Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 68
R
Enthusiast
OP Offline
Enthusiast
R
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 68
Re the cable discussion:

Yes, I am always suspicious of cables. I have used four cables. Two were USB cables, and I had the problem with both of them. Neither of the cables has any AWG markings that I can see. The other two were MIDI-to-USB, with an active device that translates MIDI to USB. Again, I don't see any AWG. All my cables have been relatively short.

The one I am using at the moment is the Yamaha device with the MIDI-USB converter. I bought this device specifically to see if it would fix the problem.

I also was concerned about my USB hub. It is not in the loop, but I disconnected it anyway to see if that made a difference. No change.

I don't have a computer nowadays with a MIDI-compatible connector. It would be interesting to try that.

At any rate, I will continue to look into the cable issue some more to see what I can come up with.

Ed

Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,975
PG Music Staff
Offline
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,975
This seems a bit different from what I saw with the previous file. With the previous file that I looked at, the second note was played a long time after the first note and there was no note off in between. In this case it seems like there are two notes received for a single note played.


Andrew
PG Music Inc.
Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 68
R
Enthusiast
OP Offline
Enthusiast
R
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 68
Agree.

Perplexing!

Ed

Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 68
R
Enthusiast
OP Offline
Enthusiast
R
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 68
Is there a difference between RealBand and BIAB in how the software reacts to Active Sensing?

If so, that might be a good clue, because the Yamaha pianos use Active Sensing, but the Casio keyboard does not.

Ed

Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 68
R
Enthusiast
OP Offline
Enthusiast
R
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 68
It has been pointed out to me that my Clavinova uses a "triple sensor" keyboard technology called GH3. (Yeah, surprised the heck out of me, too!) There is a video on Youtube by Pianomanchuck explaining the technology in general terms.

It seems plausible to me that this technology might result in overlapping notes. It has been suggested that maybe Realband, Aria, Anvil, and Pianoteq have incorporated some algorithms to deal with it, but BIAB has not.

I have the feeling of being hot on the trail of something!

Any thoughts?

Andrew, do your software guys know anything about this?

Thanks,

Ed

Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
HI R reader

I think not, as I am using a CVP405 Clavinova that’s has GH3 and don’t seem to get this problem.
Mike


BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro
Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth
Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt

http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 68
R
Enthusiast
OP Offline
Enthusiast
R
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 68
I have discovered that this issue has been discussed quite a bit in the Reaper community. I'm pretty sure they are describing the same problem. They attribute it to how the software deals with signals from triple sensor keyboards.

Here are some extracts:

**************************

Consider this MIDI sequence:

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
146543542 1 3 144 60 95 1 C 4 Note On
146543812 1 3 144 60 95 1 C 4 Note On
146544096 1 3 144 60 95 1 C 4 Note On
146545843 1 3 144 62 91 1 D 4 Note On
146545972 1 3 144 60 0 1 C 4 Note Off
146545972 1 3 144 62 0 1 D 4 Note Off
146546288 1 3 144 62 91 1 D 4 Note On
146546442 1 3 144 60 0 1 C 4 Note Off
146546442 1 3 144 62 0 1 D 4 Note Off
146546823 1 3 144 62 87 1 D 4 Note On
146547009 1 3 144 60 0 1 C 4 Note Off
146547009 1 3 144 62 0 1 D 4 Note Off
...

The problem is, modern piano keyboards that use a three sensor technology will produce these sequences when a key is stroken and thereafter not fully released, but only half-released and stroken again.
This behaviour mimics the repetition behaviour of a real Grand Piano.
...
Yamaha Digitals and Hybrids like GT2, Avant Grand and all Clavinovas with GH3 keyboards can produce such sequences.
Roland PHA III keyboards /should/ do it. Casio Tri sensor keyboards do it definitely, this are almost all recent piano models from Casio.
...
When I play from my Kawai MP7 to a hardware synth via Reaper, I can have the same note overlapped ...If I use another controller I don't have the problem. ...
MP7 has a triple-sensor keybed action, this is a pretty normal thing then, because you can start a new event before the first one has finished.
...
Triple sensor actions can and will create stuff like that, because you can trigger another note before the first one receives a note off (because of the third sensor placed in between the main two ones that all the other regular actions have).
***************
Extracted from discussions on this forum:
https://forum.cockos.com

Ed

Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,975
PG Music Staff
Offline
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,975
Interesting, so can you confirm that in your testing? If you release the keys completely all the time there should be no overlapping notes recorded? And anybody else with one of these keyboards could confirm this result.


Andrew
PG Music Inc.
Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Hi
Yes that seems a likely reason
When I done my test the other day if I played precisely make sure to let keys fully return before pressing again every thing was fine.
However the first test I done playing odd handfuls of notes without attention of complete key return I did get the stuck notes.

Like in the Ops original test these where often around B3 and E4 that I would often play with my small finger depending when I crossed over especially if playing left hand chords.

I put it down to my sloppy playing for the test , which is why I went on to make a more precise test paying attention to complete key release.

I can see this being a problem with some classical piano.

Holding a note over as in tied notes to underlie notes in the next bar should be ok providing you don’t let that tied note return to the half point.

One of my problems is I tend to be a bit on the legato side as I often use evolving voices for sweep pads that can take a couple of bars to complete the sweep.
If this is layered as say rh voice 2, over grand piano rh voice 1. they both get the same key strokes.

Very interesting topic.

Mike


BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro
Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth
Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt

http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 French for Windows is Here!


Band-in-a-Box® 2024 apporte plus de 50 fonctions nouvelles ainsi qu'une importante de contenus nouveaux à savoir : 222 RealTracks, des RealStyles nouveaux, des SuperTracks MIDI, des Etudes d'Instruments, des Prestations d'Artistes, des "Morceaux avec Choeurs", un Set 3 de Tracks Jouables, un Set 2 de RealDrums Jouables, deux nouveaux Sets de "RealDrums Stems", des Styles XPro PAK 6, des Xtra Styles PAK 17 et bien plus encore!

Tous Packages | Nouvelles Fonctionnalités

Video: Making a Song with Band-in-a-Box®, ChatGPT, and Synth V

Take your Band-in-a-Box® project to a whole new level when you incorporate ChatGPT and Synth V to add lyrics and vocals to your song!

We wanted to demonstrate how this is done with our video, where we show you how to go from nothing to a finished "radio ready" modern pop song by combining the features of Band-in-a-Box®, ChatGPT, and Synth V!

Listen to the finished song, so you get a listen to the finished product: https://demos.pgmusic.com/misc/behindthefame.m4a

If you like it, watch the video. Either way, let's hear your comments!

Henry Clarke: Revolutionize Your Band-in-Box® Tracks with Regenerating Function

One of the new features added with Band-in-Box® 2024 is the Tracks Window, which will look familiar if you've worked with other DAWs.

Henry Clarke explains why he loves the Re-generation function within the Tracks Window in their video Revolutionize Your Band-in-Box® Tracks with Regenerating Function.

Watch video.

Learn even more about what the Tracks Window can do with our video Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Tracks Window.

User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®

The Bob Doyle Media YouTube channel is known for demonstrating how you can creatively incorporate AI into your projects - from your song projects to avatar building to face swapping, and more!

His latest video, Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box, he explains in detail how you can use the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box with ACE Studio. Follow along as he goes from "nothing" to "something" with his Band-in-a-Box MIDI Melodist track, using ACE Studio to turn it into a vocal track (or tracks, you'll see) by adding lyrics for those notes that will trigger some amazing AI vocals!

Watch: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box


Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!

Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!

Paket | Was ist Neu

Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!

Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!

Learn more about this free update for PowerTracks Pro Audio & download it at www.pgmusic.com/support_windows_pt.htm#2024_5

The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!

The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!

Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.

This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,879
Posts738,369
Members38,610
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
Barry Thibault, jodanko, Palomeke, Allan Freihaut, macjones
38,609 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 162
rsdean 118
musocity 110
DC Ron 99
dcuny 92
Today's Birthdays
jacques herb
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5