PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic) New Sound Card Serious Hassles

I have had a world of problems with both BIAB and RB.

Yesterday I got a new EVCA Soundcard in hopes of improving things and now nothing works. I get either no sound, garbled sound, crashes, or whatever no matter what settings I try.

Can someone tell me what all these bleeping settings are supposed to look like to get things going? There are way too many of those to guess. I am not a computer person so all that stuff is meaningless to me. I don't want to just guess.

I already tried MME and ASIO and both have problems, although MME is the worst of the two.

Thanks.

Michael

PS. Now RB won't even start. I select an audio option as in ANY option and I get instant lock up crash, division by zero errors or whatever.

Jeez.

I’m not familiar with that brand, but without question you will want to use the ASIO driver.

Find the ASIO buffer settings. Try 512 to start. Then move up or down to find a place where it is the lowest without the sound breaking up or crackling.

I tried all of that. It does work pretty good in ASIO but only for about five minutes. Then everything crashes. Right to desktop.

Also when I render out some work into a wave file, sometimes the wave won’t play on Audacity or something like that. The play curser just doesn’t move. Then if I log out of the windows session and log back in everything works fine. So something weird is going on. Something beyond the settings. I’m actually getting corrupt wave files plus the system is crashing to desktop.

Is there anything running in the background? When I work in my music I turn off my antivirus, anti-malwarebytes, and disable my Ethernet card via the device manager.

Did you disable your motherboard sound card? It is probably a Realtek sound card. Having it and your EVCA card on at the same time can cause problems. It did here with my Roland Octa-Capture.

Have you run a full check for viruses? This would include using these free programs along with your antivirus:

1- https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/rkill/
2- https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/adwcleaner/
3- https://www.ccleaner.com/ccleaner

Run in this order ccleaner, rkill, adwcleaner, your antivirus.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

Are you attempting to open more than one program at a time using ASIO? You cannot open say BIAB and Audacity (or any other program) at the same time if both are using the ASIO driver. The way around that is to only run programs you use for recording using ASIO. For example, if you never use Audacity to record stuff set it up for WAS or whatever. ASIO reduces the delay time (latency) of the recorded message playing back to you as you record. However, that is not an issue if only playing back.

Just a thought

Tony

Thanks a lot for all the advice.

I’m not sure exactly what I’m doing wrong. I have been using iTunes or perhaps audacity to play back the wave files. I also end up having more than one program open using sound that way. So Audacity might be open at the same time as real band. Interesting that real Band gives you the opportunity to “test“ the wave file. How are you supposed to test the wave file if you can’t open audacity at the same time?

OMG I am so confused.

One interesting fact is that once I lunch the sound card so that I get no sound. I have to log out and then log back in as myself. Then the sound card comes back to life. So something about activating the sound card in more than one application is causing a problem. This is very weird.

Ok you are not using Audacity to record and therefore not worried about latency in Audacity so in the settings set the driver to a driver other than ASIO. What I’ve always done is export (render) to a wav shut down say BIAB or my DAW and then play the song in whatever. If I’m just playing back in media player this is not an issue because media player is not using ASIO. Actually I think in my case Audacity is not set up to use ASIO either.

But, I cannot use BIAB and Reaper at the same time (or Cakewalk) because they use ASIO. If I do need to flip between I’ll set one up to not use ASIO. Even BIAB can be setup to not run ASIO unless you are recording in it or using keyboard and playing through it.

There are many ways to skin a cat. Only use ASIO on programs where you are recording.

Chin up once you see it, it all becomes easy.

Tony

Hi Michael,

Just to make sure that this has no impact, it is wise to double-check "Run as administrator". This is different than logging into Windows as administrator.

To start up either BIAB or RB, right-click on the startup icon and select "Run as administrator". This gives Windows additional privileges. On my system, I need to do this as RB crashes otherwise.

Also.... what version of BIAB do you have and what version of Windows are you running?

Lastly, when you installed the soundcard, did you go into the BIOS settings and disable any on-board soundcard? If you didn't, this could be creating issues.

Regards,
Noel

I am using windows 10. I have a 2020 versions of the PG software, band in a box and real bad.

I didn’t disable the other card in BIOS but I did delete it in the device manager. It is disabled.

Hi Michael,

As far as I'm aware, and someone will correct me if I'm wrong, deleting the soundcard in Device Manager simply removes the driver. When you start up Windows, it's likely that Windows will automatically install a driver for it. Even if it doesn't, the computer still 'sees' the soundcard as present.

By disabling the on-board soundcard in the BIOS settings, you remove it from being 'seen' by the computer. This is what I always do. I've never had much luck getting two soundcards working -- it creates all sorts of audio problems for me -- so I set my system so that it can only see a single soundcard.

Regards,
Noel

The end. I cant even save a file without crashing Nothing else is running. Running as admin . Etc. I have reinstalled the program.

In short I have done absolutely everything that I’m going to do. Somethings definitely wrong with this machine or whatever.

I gotta love that typo!

Noel, I concur. I disable a device in Device Manager, not delete it (uninstall), because Windows in its wisdom will just put it back. The classic example is the HD audio for my monitor (as in, screen). Every Windows update, they reactivate it, and I disable it again.

Having said that, I doubt this is the cause of the problem here. At most, it sucks up some resources so you might get a few fewer tracks maximum in a DAW, for example.

EDIT: I just checked. Wouldn't you know it, but Windows just updated recently and there it was again. I just disabled it.

Do you know that your new soundcard is compatible with your motherboard and/or CPU type and/or graphics cards? These incompatibilities are rare but they do exist, and Google will find disgruntled users.

Oh, and could you post a link to the exact model soundcard you bought?

It is EVGA Nu Audio

Thanks. I'll just come out and say it: this is an inexpensive card intended for computer gamers. The reviews I saw were not favorable for high-quality audio uses.

Ok. Then what card to get?

I’m not a good source for that. All my equipment is pro level. Others here will have more current and relevant suggestions.

Can you return your card? What’s your budget?

Oh yes I just got the card the other day so I could take it back anytime within 30 days. As far as budget is concerned I’m a hobbyist but I want tthe thing to work. So I don’t want total junk. I’m not going to make a movie soundtracks or anything important.

Michael,

Prior to getting the new soundcard, did BIAB/RB work correctly?

Regards,
Noel

No it didn’t work well at all. I had an old Creative X/FI card. It was pretty old and I didn’t expect it to work well and it certainly did not. I read someplace that those cards don’t play nice with windows 10. So, I thought I was upgrading with the new card yesterday but I guess I really wasn’t.

Had the same sorts of problems with the other card. Random crashing that could happen anytime. You could just be sitting there looking at the program and it would crash. Literally just sitting there.

I think I’d be looking at an external audio interface. Something like a Presonus C24 or a Focusrite 2i2 or similar or better. Why at least 2 in 2 out is mainly so you can record two things at once say voice and guitar or whatever. There are many audio interfaces available and some are fairly low cost (to my way of thinking).

Tony

OK thanks.

I take it that those external ones have all of the card information just like an internal card, right?

I will order one tomorrow and see what happens. I have a feeling that the same thing is going to happen but I don’t know what else to try at this point.

Michael,

This is a puzzling problem.

Do websites like Youtube and Soundcloud play ok?

Also, what antivirus software do you use?

Regards,
Noel

Yes the websites snd youtube play fine.

The virus protection is Norton.

Thanks.

Michael

Thanks, Michael.

That the above websites play fine is a good sign. It suggests that your soundcard is working OK and that BIAB/RB should be able to use it.

In relation to Norton, have you added \bb\ and \Realband as exclusions in Norton. This will stop those folders from being checked. This is sometimes necessary for full BIAB/RB operation. (I always exclude \bb\ and \Realband in my antivirus software.)

I know you mentioned that you'd tried MME, but just so that I can eliminate a couple of things, can you please go to the link below and set the Audio Driver and MIDI driver exactly as explained at the website below.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=461558#Post461558

Once settings are in place, test run BIAB and RB by running them in administrator mode as mentioned a couple of posts above. Please let me know how things went.

The settings given at the above link are those that work 99% of the time. I've always found it good problem-solving practice to get these settings up and running. Once that's done, we can expand out into other drivers if needed.

Regards,
Noel

I did everything that you listed. First I got total silence. Then I clicked on a couple things to try to fix things and then the program crashed.

Hi Michael,

It's time to ask PG Music for help. The fact that you got silence is suggesting that this could also be a Windows problem.

This problem is beyond my ability to solve over the internet. I don't know if they still do it, but I have heard that PG Music Tech staff have, in the past, accessed people's computers remotely and have solved problems and got things running this way.

I suggest contacting PG Music using Live Help and ask if it is possible to do this. Also, give PG Music the URL of this thread so that they can see what has been discussed and tried.

Kind regards,
Noel

Yes I will do that. I first have to get the machine working because I took the new sound card back to the store. Now I don’t have any sound at all. Maybe I’ll get the onboard sound running or something until I get a new card. The old creative card was pretty much trashed too so I don’t really have a base level of anything to call them with. But I’ll get something up and running somehow.

Thanks again.

Michael

Well I found out today that they are closed because of the virus epidemic.

Which Extertal sound card should I get?

Also Do I additionally need an internal sound card for other things that are related to the computer?

Thanks again

Michael

I would go with Tony's recommendations. I love and use the Focusrite stuff and Presonus always has good reviews. Use the Google to look up the manufacturer sites.


No, the external card will handle all of the computer's sounds. The sound card will usually connect to your computer via USB port.

Can I ask you one more thing? I’m trying to find a way to make midi melodies sound better. The ones in real band are really cheesy sounding. Even the forte one is pretty weak.

Should I be using something else?

Thanks again.

Michael

You are still going to use a soundcard, so get that anyway.

I didn't get back to this in time, but there were some questions about whether your sound card would play back audio from, say, YouTube. This is not a valid test. Even the cheapest chips will play back audio. The trick is recording it. You need a sound card with the ability to adjust the ASIO buffer. If I recall correctly, the lowest Scarlett units from Focusrite do not allow that, but if you spend just a bit more, you get a mixer and the ability to adjust the buffer. I use Focusrite Scarlett units, too - I have three, on various machines.

About the better MIDI sound, you are in luck! Someone else just asked about this a few days ago, and there is some solid info you will benefit from. Find that thread.

- I'll see if I can add a link to it. EDIT: here it is: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=588250#Post588250

Take heart. This is going to look like a long topic, and in truth it is. We all strive to get better sound, and there is no one correct and easy answer. Read when I linked to, and then come back with your questions. We have all been there before.

Hi Matt,

It was I who asked about whether Michael could hear Youtube or Soundcloud.

In light of your justified (and totally correct) technical comments above, I thought that I'd better add the below for clarity in case someone reads this thread in a few years and wishes to know the thinking behind my comments.

My reason for asking about Youtube was because, at that stage in the thread, Michael could hear poor output from BIAB. I reasoned that if he could hear Youtube without issue, then he should be able to hear BIAB without issue. In other words, his card was working correctly for audio output. I wasn't trying to assess anything more than that.

I hope that things are travelling well for you in this health catastrophe.

All the best,
Noel

Fine here so far! Thanks Noel. I should more properly have said it wasn’t a final or sufficient test. Some folks here (not you!) do not realize that BIAB stresses a computer far more than just about anything else you could do involving audio. But for those ‘future readers’, you were absolutely right to suggest it as a step in diagnosing the problem. Cheers.

Thanks for the information and all the references to the midi sample programs. Let me tell you what I am trying to do.

I’m not going to do a soundtrack for a movie or a TV station or anything. I’m perfectly happy with the background music that BIAB provides.

However when trying to add a melody, such as a horn or a trumpet, I’d like to have a melody that actually sounds like a real instrument instead of a comb kazoo.

Also, if I did get something good for a synthesizer package, I wouldn’t want to have to buy $10,000 worth of gear to operate it, nor would I want to become a computer programmer to use it. I would want to use it through a simple program like Real Band.

That being the case, what package would I want to buy?

Thanks, I am getting ready to order the external sound card. I would want something to work with ASIO and be a pretty good one. What would you recommend? I noticed that some don’t work with ASIO I guess.

In my opinion you can’t go wrong with either the Presonus C24 or the Focusrite 2i2. I have a Presonus as well as a couple of Roland devices. The Presonus is quite good I use it as my gigging interface. There are quite a number of people on these forums that swear by the Focusrite. Either is a really good choice usually at a reasonable price. Check on the WEB for the best deals in your area (country).

The Presonus has MIDI connectivity that the Focusrite does not have. Not that that is an issue in most cases. A USB to MIDI device is quite cheap anyhow. I think some of the addons with the Focusrite might be better but check that out.

Tony.

Many of us here use the Focusrite offerings.
They are good quality, reliable and stable (and work in PGMusic products).

I have used multiple Focusrite devices on multiple W10 machines without issue, from the 2i2 to the 18i20. We have 2 of the 18i20's in daily use now and the 2i2 is a 'floater' (in reserve and available when needed).
Obviously the 2i2 puts less load on the system, so it is the most light weight solution, but consider your needs and resources.

If your machine has a decent USB driver any of their products should work, so select the one you need.
The only drawback of the 2i2 is it has no software mixer. All the other higher level models seem to.
It may make a difference in your workflow, or maybe not.
I have no idea if that was a feature you liked about your previous (now returned) interface.

As far as MIDI; the 2i2 does not have a MIDI connector, but most other models do. Again, another thing to consider with your purchase.

As rharv just said, the 2i2 does not have a software mixer. The lowest-priced Focusrite Scarlett I could recommend is the 4i4.

Ok. I saw Focusrite 18i8. Would that be ok or overkill?

Depends on your needs. If for example, you are using it to record yourself with a guitar then the 8i8 would be overkill. If you were recording an orchestra then it might not be enough.

Look at what your needs are then add a bit that should be plenty. I’d rather have a little more than not enough (funny that, it applies to all things). But, don’t spend a heap more than you need to.

My thoughts

Tony

I have one. It’s a solid unit. One thing it will do that the lesser models don’t is serve as a stand-alone mixer (I. E. not connected to your computer).

Keep in mind the hardware (like microphone preamps) is the same quality in all their Scarlett line. The difference is the number of inputs and outputs, and the types of inputs and outputs (for example, digital).

Yes, evaluate how many inputs you may need at any given time.

If you do plan to use all 8 inputs, something to note;
The 4 inputs on the front have obvious physical volume controls.
The 4 on the back do not.

Just one of the variations with this unit.
So for using it as a live mixer (as Matt suggested) it would be a 4 channel mixer effectively.

One cool thing a lot of users like is that the dial lights up different colors to show signal level.
But that's pretty much what you get for meters.
I was considering this unit (needed 8 inputs) but decided that having the dials available for all 8 inputs on the front panel was a huge plus.
Then also having a more conventional graph display of all 8 inputs (as opposed to the 4 front dials lighting up and having to launch software to get at the other 4 on the back) made it much better for actual recording use, and now all 8 tracks can be used in a live mixer situation if needed.
This made me take the plunge for the next unit up.
So I went 18i20.

Of course it's your call. I don't know if you'd ever need the extra stuff.
I did.

I ordered the 18 i 8. That’s probably more than I will ever need unless I have a stunning burst of talent which I’m not expecting! I could’ve probably got away with the six but it’s only a few dollars more has Clint Eastwood said.

One thing I didn’t like about the eight or the six was that it has to have a separate power supply which is just another wire for me to get tangled in but there must be a reason for that. Probably the USB ports don’t put out enough juice.

I appreciate all the information about this because there’s so many out there and you just don’t know what is what.

Thanks.

Michael

That Focusrite box came today. I hooked it up I can hear videos good on it. But for some reason nothing in real band plays. I have that set on MME and I selected the focus right drivers which I hope is right. The view meters show sound being played both from my oxygen keyboard and also from tapping on the keys on real bad. But I don’t hear anything. Any idea what’s wrong?

Thanks.

Michael

Remind us, which Focusrite Scarlett model do you have?
EDIT 18i8

It may be a matter of opening the mixer and setting the outputs.

I tried that and it didn’t work. I uninstalled the software that came with the FocusRite item. Then I tried it again and everything worked.

However after I went to Kontact syn, real band crashed.

So this computer must be screwed up or something.

How about this for an explanation?

When you get five or six tracks you have a lot of information going through the machine. When you then add a high-grade synthesizer like Kontact, you’re adding the straw that breaks the camels back.

I know that’s not a real technical explanation but it sounds plausible right?

Michael, Can I suggest That you go to your profile and add your details such as the PC or whatever you are using, the amount of memory, cpu type and speed, the software, sound card. See how Matt has it all added. As do quite a number of other forum users. This makes helping you with your issues a lot easier.

It could be your pc is a little under powered or maybe the buffers might need setting but without all the details it makes it hard to help.

As I said on another of your posts something such as Groove3 will show you a lot of the answers.

Just a thought.

Tony

Tony:

Done. All added.

Thanks.

Michael

How old is the AMD processor. It might be a little under powered for what you’re trying to do. I don’t really know AMD processors (There May be a lot more expertise on the forums) but that is where I’d start looking. Also the USB ports are they USB 2 or better.

Checkout https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Phenom+II+X4+925&id=366

Maybe increasing buffer sizes on the ASIO driver might help.

Tony

Hi Michael,

You mention Realband crashing. Does BIAB work with the Focusrite?

Regards,
Noel

Hi Michael, the specs for Kontakt Player https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-6-player/specifications/

I think your machine is not quite there.

I think the USB audio interface you have requires at least USB 2.

Just some thoughts

Keep well all

Tony

BIAB worked ik with the focusrite. But it wasn’t much of a workout. I just typed a couple chords in to see what would happen but it worked.

Based on what’s been said, I guess I should return the Focusrite thing while I still can until I get a new computer. I don’t know what else to do at this point.

You mentioned earlier you were using MME with the Focusrite.
This is not recommended.
Use the Focusrite USB ASIO drivers.
Also the Phenom II processors were made between 2008 and 2012, making them a little long in the tooth.

I had a Phenom II system until the end of last year, the system it was in also had dated USB connections from the same era and could not keep up with the needs of the Focusrite 18i20.
The older system could handle the 2i2 just fine, but the 18i20 was enough to make it show its weaknesses

I built a newer Ryzen system using the ASUS ROG platform and all my problems went away. Plus I have a faster machine with lots more USB options now.

By using the existing case and hard drives the new machine was about $500 including W10 license.
FWIW in my mind I had good experiences with Focurite on other machines, and decided to keep the interface and upgrade the machine.

Wonder if you would mind sending me the specs of your machine and where you got the parts if you built it yourself. I was going to build another machine anyway and this is as good a time as any.

The other thing I was thinking was that all the time I’ve been testing the crashing I’ve been using an older file. Maybe a month old file.

The reason I mention it is is that that fiile was made on the old creative card which never worked for beans.

I wonder whether a file could have a corruption caused by an older card and it throws everything wacky. Maybe I have to try it with a brand new file? I don’t know if that matters with midi. But the file In question had band in the box, audio and midi all in it. So maybe there was a problem with that file? Who knows?

for what its worth i have an AMD Phenom x4 but its 3.4 g speed and so far no problems i have 8 gb of RAM and a Creative Soundblaster ZS Audigy 2

i'm running a uphoria umc204hd interface for recording and monitoring using asio but mix on the Soundblaster with WAS drivers.

so far my system seems to handle most things but does occasionallly crash when i'm loading vsts using jbridge in the mixer

Rharv is correct, use the ASIO driver for your Focusrite.

The other sound card would not have caused any corruption to your song file.

I replied in your other thread, but judging by your image, you are not using the Focusrite at all anymore. (see image below)


As for the recent build -
I actually have 2 new AMD systems; built one, bought one.
One was a few hundred $$ less than the other. <grin>

I used the parts below, but note this motherboard does not have onboard graphics so you need a graphic card.
The amount of RAM is up to you also (separate).

The processor and motherboard were pretty affordable, being about half the total cost.
Not saying these were the same dealers I bought from (I just Googled and found the same stuff I used)

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Processor-Wraith-Stealth-Cooler/dp/B07B41WS48
https://www.amazon.com/ROG-Strix-B450-F-Gaming-Motherboard/dp/B07FKTZC4M

Like I said, after that you need to decide on a graphics card and RAM.
The unexpected cost for me was the W10 license; the new hardware needed a new license.
That's about $130
So that put me at about $380 before RAM and graphics.
I don't need gaming graphics, so that was pretty cheap.

That's about all I can think of to tell you if you are thinking about a build.
There's better stuff out there, but this system is working fine for me so far.

Hi Michael, use the ASIO drivers as has been said. Things such as RealBand and BIAB should run ok but you’ll most likely have issues with Kontakt if the PC is under powered which I suspect it is. Check the CPU ratings on the site I sent you yesterday.

You might also find when playing back it will stutter quite a bit if it is under powered. You can overcome this by increasing buffers on the ASIO driver but that will increase the latency. Latency is not an issue if only playing back.

You’ll see quite a number of folk are using i3 or better CPU (the AMD equivalent). Kontakt recommends at least i5. A lot of good VST plugins require at least i3 and 8 gig of RAM. Personally I over spec my PCs but I find in the 5 or so year lifespan of my PCs they eventually are no longer really over speced.

If what I’m reading is correct your PC might just be a little under which can create many of the issues you have. As I say check on the AMD CPU chart I sent you earlier. Then check on the Native Instruments Kontakt Player link regarding the Minimum requirements for Kontakt Player. Do the same for other top of the line VST plugins and you’ll see what I’m getting at.

Just reading these things is why I’m writing this. I think if your PC is under speed CPU wise you’ll run into one issue after another.

Tony

As @Teunis noted, increasing the ASIO buffer size can reduce CPU load quite a bit. If you're recording voice or an instrument, it's helpful if you can run cleanly with a buffer of 256. If mixing, a buffer of 2048 usually works very well. Any buffer size greater than 256 will give you noticeable latency.

If you're having trouble recording glitch-free, try to kill as many unnecessary tasks as possible. The less you ask of your PC, the better.

Michael,

In relation to my post much earlier in the thread, Did you contact PG Music and ask if they still solve user problems by remotely linking onto a faulty computer?

Regards,
Noel

Well after you said that I called them and there was a voice message that says that they’re not doing service of a technical nature because of the virus situation. So yes I called and that was the result.

Oh, that's unfortunate. But you are getting good guidance here.

If I were going to use the Focusrite external sound card, would I also have to order a separate sound card for inside the computer? Or would you just use the onboard sound for every day sound tasks?

Thanks.

Michael

All I use is the external on both systems.
If there was an internal soundcard I disabled it.

Yes you can play YouTube, listen to disks or MP3s, video conference etc. using just the external device.

Right. Do not use the internal sound card.

Your signature shows a Focusrite 8i18 External Card already. So you already have an external interface?

Yes I got it a few weeks ago. I also built a new computer. So everything works fine now, at least for the moment.