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We can add one more to the backend fix/improve list.
EXTREMELY LONG file names.
The average length is over 70 characters!? If you actually look at the file names in the DAW cache or peek file names it can exceed 128 characters with the DAWS metadata attached to the file when drug into the DAW.
This is unwanted, annoying, and can hurt certain actions such as quick comping auditions.

No thanks

A DAW user just needs "Guitar RT 3030" at the most for the file name which the DAW will use as the Track label.





Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
Attention PGM development!!!! We have seen some work done on the front end by Adar, and thanks to him for that. But we have yet to see one single fix from the back end developers. I ask is this not going to happen? If there is going to be no further progress this year then please tell us. So we can stop asking and posting and hoping.

Several of us here have invested a lot of time and effort into figuring out and detailing the base features needed to make this plugin totally useable. I for one have several projects that I want to do that will go much better if the features listed actually worked. I don’t enjoy having to “trick” the tools into doing what it should. I just wish you folks would break the silence and let us know what is happening. Is it too much to ask for you to at the very least let us know what you intend to do about this? If you have no intention of fixing these things just say so, and we will save our virtual breath. Move on using other means to accomplish what we need and save frustration.

This downtime for the world is the perfect time to accomplish this so many people are sitting around with time to create. You could pick up many new DAW users who have time to explore this option.

Finally please, just communicate with your customers.

+1
It's important to note the 200 new RC for MIDI drums don't work in BiaB and the plugin in all DAWs except Reaper. So it is a digression from last year.


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Thanks Jeff! There was a new build (v2.6.8) added to the pre-release forum today that includes many back-end fixes such as RCs for MIDI drums and plugin rendering options. Give it a try and let me know if you are still experiencing any issues.

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Just adding to the discussion - I saw this mentioned in one post in a "to be fixed" list - hope it's on the map.Bar settings such as number of beats are not being loaded in plugin. I have measures of 3 followed by measures of 4 that load correctly in BiaB but all are 4 beats in plugin and the bar setting dialog shows count of "0" (default I guess).


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Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
Things needed to make the plugin functional.
The following are known and confirmed issues not working with the current plugin:

FIXED
Center Panned, Dry, (no EQ or FX). These are important for rendering to a DAW, as they allow the user to use tools in the DAW for processing rather than having them pre processed. A must have!

FIXED
The 300 new MIDI RCs for Real Drums (Studio one, Cakewalk, and Ableton live not working) they worked last year when there were only 20 but are broken now. Also, a must have to allow much wanted multi-track drums.

FIXED
Song Fold/Unfold bug. If a song is generated while the chord sheet is folded. It will generate all choruses. If you drag tracks to the DAW, play the song in the DAW then make any changes to the song, it will only generate the 1st chorus. Note: in the info bar (black area with blue lettering) if the chorus count looks like 1/2 or 1/3 etc generation of all choruses fail. If you hit the red stop button on the plugin or manually reset the count it will work.

FIXED
Embedded Tempo, many DAWs can stretch the audio to follow a live tempo but the audio file must have embedded tempo first. MIDI tracks always have the tempo embedded.  If you want to have the plugin work with a live recording or want to add tempo changes in your DAW, the file needs embedded tempo.

FIXED
Style changes in the Bar settings. This is a cool feature to add texture to the song. It only works when a file is brought from BiaB, not one created in the plugin.
UNTESTED
The new in 2020 Harmony's or thickening this doesn’t work properly
UNTESTED
Medley Changes are not working properly in the plugin.
UNTESTED
Song Settings 2-4 Bar Ending only works with 4 bars ending.

FIXED
RDs do not re-generate when generated on the Style page.

NOT YET IMPLEMENTED
Direct Input versions of RTs are very important allowing a user to use amp sims to create the sound desired but are not working.

1/8 push, 1/16 push are still not working

Regards Rob.

Thank You!


Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Ditto it is working better in this new build.

Last edited by Rob Helms; 05/09/20 04:24 PM.

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Seeing this late, sorry. The plugins are useless. I write the arrangement in BIAB, audition and generate better tracks and solos in RealBand (crap as a DAW) and get the heck out of there for Acoustica Mixcraft, which is fantastic. I think BIAB is antiquated and RB is buggy. PGM should concentrate on great RealTracks and Drums, and optimize song generation with them, and get out of the DAW business. Once you have good WAVs, use the DAWs directly and leave PGM to do what they do well- song arrangements and tracks.


Best, Warren

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Welcome late is better than never. Good to see you again. Warren I do have to disagree on some points. BiaB is not a DAW in the simple view of things. RB has had its share of bugs, however it has come a long way. When you figure what it actually can do there is no DAW on the planet that has its track generation capability. That said it does need a few modernization options.

The plugin in my opinion is not crap, it actually works very well. It has had several very nice upgrades and while it is still being developed it is currently very useful. I pounded out 4 test projects yesterday, and it preformed very solidly. I have used it since the very beginning and it has really come along. Now it is a powerful tool inside a DAW. Certainly there are some things that still need attention, but it is a pretty good tool.


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Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
RB has had its share of bugs, however it has come a long way. When you figure what it actually can do there is no DAW on the planet that has its track generation capability.

And except for that single feature it is a DAW that no one would ever choose to use. I would love to see it reviewed and compared to REAL DAWs.

Quote:
The plugin in my opinion is not crap, it actually works very well.

In my admittedly limited experience it does not work. Latest version crashed every time I tried to use it yesterday. It should be solid as a rock after all this time and effort has been put into it.

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Sorry your having that experience but it is not mine. For me it is working. You are most likely using the latest forum release and it had a big feature added that made it unstable. The team is working hard to stabilize it. We had a very solid build not to long ago but everyone kept asking for more and more addons, and it has been a rollercoaster ride at times, but now many of those are being addressed. I have no doubt it will be stable soon. I hope PGM takes the wise course, and stops the rapid roll of added features in favor of solid function.

As far as RB not being used, well there are many here that would disagree. While it is not super popular, there are people here that have used it since inception, some in professional development. I have used it extensively and had great success. I do think they should upgrade a few features, but not at the expense of it not working properly.

Last edited by Rob Helms; 08/26/20 01:26 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
Sorry your having that experience but it is not mine. For me it is working. You are most likely using the latest forum release and it had a big feature added that made it unstable. The team is working hard to stabilize it. We had a very solid build not to long ago but everyone kept asking for more and more addons, and it has been a rollercoaster ride at times, but now many of those are being addressed. I have no doubt it will be stable soon. I hope PGM takes the wise course, and stops the rapid roll of added features in favor of solid function.

As far as RB not being used, well there are many here that would disagree. While it is not super popular, there are people here that have used it since inception, some in professional development. I have used it extensively and had great success. I do think they should upgrade a few features, but not at the expense of it not working properly.


So why do users use Studio One rather than RealBand ?
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=612329
Quote:
Feel free to post feature requests about RapidComposer in this thread , or start a new thread.
We will implement every sensible request, as it happened in the past.

Thank you,
Attila

Things are just done, it's all so easy, no fighting, no stress, a total pleasure.
Originally Posted By: musicdevelopments

Originally Posted By: como baila

And this would be the 'BIG' feature that would propel your program to the top of the charts: create a midi VSTi plugin version that could run directly within a DAW like Cubase.

Harmony Improvisator or 7Aliens Catanya are examples of this approach ... but implemented at an infinitely inferior level compared to your program.

Como

Thanks for all the requests. The VSTi plug-in version would not be too much work...

Thank you!
Attila

NO BOARDROOM MEETINGS
Originally Posted By: Musicdevelopments

Thanks for your very kind comment smile , and for being so helpful and enthusiastic for so many years.
Definitely no boardroom meetings :uhuhuh:
Attila

Quote:
crossovercable wrote: ↑
Every few days since it's release 10 years ago there has been fixes and new features added.
The development decisions don't have to go up through a hierarchy to be discussed in a boardroom meeting.
I think we are actually communicating with a higher being from another planet that has tapped into our internet, Attila is just the earthly name smile


I don't want to get into politics like over in the USA but I do see the similarity, that someone comes in to change things for the better but the old guard hangs on blocking things to keep things in the past, that don't work. If things don't work you don't keep repeating them or you get the same results.

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Pipeline it’s not about old guard or not wanting progress but progress with out stability is fruitless. I do appreciate the ideas and vision you and others bring to the table and also want to see things modernize. If you remember I totally agreed and echoed your vision of a redo similar to what Presonus did with kristal audio. Maybe using an open source daw.

Let’s take RB for example . What does it need? First to complete with Studio one or Reaper it needs to shed its 48 track skin and clean up the mixer view where the only tracks that show are the ones on the tracks view like ever other DAW. It needs to have the mixer moves feature brought up to the level of the automation features of other systems.

It could use a visual update and so it doesn’t look like the Powertracks it was built from very much like the early cakewalk days. But despite this it is still capable of delivering excellent results. I stopped using it not because it didn’t work but because it was resource heavy on my system and I liked a few features better in studio one. It has gotten better stability wise in my opinion. I would love to see it come all the way to where you and I envision it could be. But to just shred it and place it in a constant state of construction is not the answer, as there are people that use it every day. It needs incremental progress, that allows it to function. I would love to see parallel development of a new DAW. I think we talk about that a while back.

Case in point the plugin every time I’m they get a solid stable build the masses clamor for this feature or that feature PGM tries to add it and the next build is a train wreak. They scramble to fix it get it real close and add another feature bang the cycle starts all over. To your point a while back it should have cooked longer to start, but it didn’t.

I don’t want to stop progress just slow it down some to allow stability to catch up, lest many give up and move on. I really do appreciate what you try to do around here. You sir are a thinker, and have good vision. If I haven’t said it ,thank you !

One word of caution I offer, you come from a environment of fresh ideas that exist in the REAPER world. Rapid change. You know as well as anyone that BiaB is not Reaper. Reaper is a light weight, small footprint system that can sustain rapid development. BiaB is a complex, resource heavy old legacy code system slowly grinding forward adding multiple new features each year and every few years a major change. All this adds to the basic stability issues. Long time request don’t get handled due to new asks being implemented. PGM to its credit try hard to make all of us happy. Sometimes to hard. The plugin is one of those examples. What is in pre release beta right now is when done will be a very solid place to take a breather. Hopefully then RB can get some more love and become what we all think it can be.

Please don’t ever think you are not appreciated. New ideas and innovative thinking are vital to the future of this product. Careful implementation is also vital so that current users continue to enjoy using the product daily. Older users (old guard) want stable solid familiar function, innovative ideas thinkers want new fresh workflow based changes. Both want to make music. Both are important to PGM and both have the right to their views.
Peace to ya Brother,


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Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
..........................

Let’s take RB for example . What does it need? First to complete with Studio one or Reaper it needs to shed its 48 track skin and clean up the mixer view where the only tracks that show are the ones on the tracks view like ever other DAW. It needs to have the mixer moves feature brought up to the level of the automation features of other systems.


For everyone whom wants RB to be compete with Studio One, Cubase,
Logic Pro, etc, are you willing to pay the same price as these DAWs charge? The only advantage RB has is in using RTs and that could be solved by using the VSTi. IMHO the VSTi is the future for PGMusic.

I have said it before and I will say it again I think PGMusic should get out of the DAW business, completely rewrite the VSTi and BiaB to include a lot of suggested improvements like real time signatures, more tracks (BiaB), bar by bar regeneration, etc.

I will add that BiaB is NOT a DAW so some should stop trying to use it as one. BiaB is an backing track generator. Use it like that then transfer said tracks to the DAW of your choice. This is my opinion.

On a side note if I were in charge of PGMusic I would try to work out a deal with Pipeline and incorporate a number of his add ons and suggestions.

YMMV





Last edited by MarioD; 08/27/20 03:01 AM.

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For me anyways a welcome development in RB would be,

1 a nice toolbox of options for the tracks that can be done with a signle click or so, such as split a track (scissors tool) mute a selection mute tool, a range tool and maybe a few more.

2 a nice big mixer not that pitiful little mixer that we have at the moment.


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Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
.. We had a very solid build not to long ago but everyone kept asking for more and more addons, and it has been a rollercoaster ride at times,...

These were industry standard things that it never had in the first place, that cause it to be a flop as I said it would be in Beta.
Re: Plugin v2.0 Needed Improvements Solo/Mute No Brainer
Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
Pipeline, Brilliant in my opinion. Those improvements would get the plugin to where it would be a solid part of my daily workflow. 100000+ for me on all of it.


That's why I say about RapidComposer how the development works, it's so easy, no fighting, no stress, a pure joy. Every few days features are added.
I'll buy you RapidComposer and you can join the forum and see what a joy it is, NO HIGH STRESS CONSTANT FRUSTATIONAL AGGRAVATION over a decade mad
There is a constant open Beta, there needs to be something like this here:
v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions) We will implement every sensible request..

Not a 5 day beta test of the Plugin then released.
Adar communicates, gets things done quickly when he's allowed to, but his hands are tied as it goes through the hierarchy and board meetings.
Imagine if Adar was free to develop the Plugin and the BBW4 himself, you would have another Attila.
RealBand is what it is, if there was nothing else, I could do it all with that especially with the latest beta, that by the way has been given a good long test and not a 5 day rush.

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Pipes, you are right about all of that. It should have cooked longer. It should have been made closer to industry standards. You are also right about the fact I agreed with you 1000% at that point. What I agree with now is that it has obviously struggled. But there have been times where it was pretty darn stable then an added feature blew it up again. Why I ask? Well the answer lies in things both you and I have discussed in the past.

This product (BiaB) was built decades ago with old legacy code. It has been updated patched added to for decades. It seems obvious just how close to broken or easy to break this old code is. To PGs credit they know their product, get it fixed. People keep pushing for new things, many that actually are good ideas. The problem is that until this software gets a major code upgrade continually adding feature just breaks existing ones.

So while you view me and a few others as “old guard” or whatever, we actually want the same thing. We want all of this to function at a high level. So I propose we all join forces as a team. You keep coming up with awesome ideas for PG to consider and I’ll keep reminding them to stabilize the current features. Together we along with many others here can enjoy the fruits of our labor.

Hopefully we can encourage Peter and his excellent team to take a look at a modern code rewrite with the focus on ARA2 plugin protocol. Imagine if the plugin, with many of your great ideas, interacted with the DAW much like Melodyne. Sharing chord/key/etc data seamlessly.

I have seen BiaB, RB, and the plugin flip flop from stable to unstable multiple times. I also recognize that While this is happening regular users are trying to use it. So I try to balance the need for improvement with the need for caution and stability.

I hope this explains my view and clears things up. Both viewpoints are vital in my opinion.

Last edited by Rob Helms; 08/28/20 05:11 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
...Hopefully we can encourage Peter and his excellent team to take a look at a modern code rewrite...

encourage ? I started out that way over a decade ago frown
I used to be really nice and respectful (and we all know how that ended).
I tried really hard
programming language upgrade delphi to c++
see, I don't mind joining forces as you say but I don't have much force left, I'm just so worn out and depleted from it all these days, sorry frown

Quote:
I also recognize that While this is happening regular users are trying to use it. So I try to balance the need for improvement with the need for caution and stability.
again if you look at RapidComposer there is a version for regular users and a version for public beta, the beta is not a release version until down the track when it's all good, not a 5 day test ! you get a better beta test if it's public, Reaper does that.
Sure you will still have the closed forum for the 5 day mad rush test of the new December version and spend all Dec-Jan fixing the bugs after it's release, so maybe there should be a closed beta testing in Oct-Nov for it rather than a mad 5 day rush.

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I get that but this is not reaper, not rapid composer either and we have to play in the playground that’s offered. PGM does things differently than those other folks. Maybe some of it is for reasons we don’t know. Reaper while very slick and powerful DAW is nothing like BiaB. Rapid composer again while it is a composition app like BiaB is very different in approach and I am sure coding. These are great examples, but still PGM is going to do things according to there plan. We can ask, beg, scream, yell, but really the best course is to suggest changes and accept results. We all choose to use this, we choose to spend time testing and working with it.

If PGM chooses to ignore our ideas, or to take a different path, or even to do things different from our views that is their choice. My friend you should enjoy the journey and not invest so much it exhaust you. Many of your ideas have been used. Use what you like, and get back to making music, and doing projects. Take some time and enjoy what you do have.

Again thanks for your ideas, tip, work around and hard work.


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Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
best course is to suggest changes and accept results

If folks like Pipeline did that we would have only the VST mess they first released when even the owner of the company stated it was working perfectly fine. And it would have served its purpose of being one of "49 New Features" never to be fixed or used by anyone. Kinda like UserTracks and VideoTracks.

Mr. Pipeline, thank you for continuing to request/demand/plead for useful features that actually work!

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Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
........................

Mr. Pipeline, thank you for continuing to request/demand/plead for useful features that actually work!


A big thank you from me.


There is a new wine for seniors. It's made from an anti-diuretic hybrid grape and reduces the number of trips to the bathroom. It's called Pino More!

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New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!

This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!

When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

Free Updates Available for PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 & RealBand 2024!

Using RealBand 2024 or PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024? Head to our support page for your free update!

RealBand 2024 Build 3 resolves the "expired program" error users were experiencing, along with a few other issues that were reported. It also adds the option to launch the Style Picker from the Tracks Window! Learn all about this patch and download it here.

A lot of what you see in RealBand you'll find in PowerTracks, as these are similar programs - so the "expired program" error was also occuring in PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024. Fortunately, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Build 3 resolves this!

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