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#601618 - 06/11/20 03:28 AM [User Showcase] When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch)
Registered: 06/04/20
Posts: 181
Loc: Texas, United States
TexasFrets Offline
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Registered: 06/04/20
Posts: 181
Loc: Texas, United States
When the Morning Comes - a song born out of the translitic process



(Originally sketched out Dec 2017)

I used BIAB to sketch out this song. In this mix, I've kept the bass (but used Melodyne to convert to midi & then made a 2nd bass track using Trillian), piano, drums (but used ToonTracks superior drums to convert them to Midi), cello 1, cello 2, and guitar. I've recorded an additional guitar track using my Strat. I also did some surgery on the cello tracks and recorded my Bridge electric cello for more melodic parts. And, of course, I added my voice and harmonica. I’m not a harmonica player, so . . . well, I did my best, given my limited experience.

===================================================================
Here is the BIAB realtracks info:

_CELLOW2.STY Dual Cello Waltz - sw8 ¾ D 85

Bass - 1121 Bass, Acoustic, CountryWaltz 085
Piano - 831 Piano, Acoustic, Solo-Accompaniment Pop BouncyWaltz Sw 085
Drums - RealDrums=NashvilleWaltzSw^2-a Sidestick, Hhat, b:Snare, Ride
Cello1 - 2557:Cello, Background SlowWaltz Sw 085
Cello2 - 2557:Cello, Background SlowWaltz Sw 085
===================================================================

I exported the audio and then imported into Studio One 4. I added various plugins and occasionally manually manipulated some of the audio tracks. I recorded the vocal with a Perlman mic.

This is still a rough sketch of the song. I hope to get back to it and revise the lyrics, remix it, etc. I’d appreciate any and all (especially actionable) feedback that I could use when I rewrite and re-record this song. I’m particularly interested in feedback about the harmonica. Keep it? Leave it out? Mix it differently?

The lyrics were born out of the translitic process, which begins with a foreign language poem. (I’ve spoken a bit about this process in the body of this previous post: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=600505#Post600505)


LYRICS
I wrote 7 drafts, and this is my current set of lyrics:

Draft 7

Well the night she has fallen--she's down on her knees.
Like the moon drunk and calling, I'm calling to sea.
Oh, sweet west wind wash me--my hands are caked and stained.
Won't you lay down beside me; love, I need your pain.

And you know it's going to be alright,
And you know it's going to be alright,
And you know it's going to be alright,
When the morning comes.

Oh there's a fierce god below us with a fire on his tongue.
When my mouth's pressed hard to you, I sing his praise from my lungs.
Let us dance, let us die, with our backs young and straight.
Turn the stern eye away, lay your loss near the gate.

And you know it's going to be alright,
And you know it's going to be alright,
And you know it's going to be alright,
When the morning comes.

Well I wake and I watch the dust sweep over my shoes.
In the first vulgar light, I search the sheets for your ruins.
Oh, the curse of these rations--a brush twined with hair.
I'm like a bird deep in flight . . . that gets lost to the air.

But you know it's going to be alright,
Yes, you know it's going to be alright,
Oh, I know it's going to be alright,
When morning comes.

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#601637 - 06/11/20 05:53 AM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 10212
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 10212
Loc: Florida
Todd,

First thing that "hit me" is the harmonica. The playing is fine. There is a bit of "harshness" to it - maybe a bit too much high EQ? and seems loud compared to the vocal (maybe 3 dB?). That seems the case each time it comes back...

The prosody of "...my hands are caked and stained" is a bit bumpy. (You could drop the word "are" to avoid that).

The rest of the production sounds really good. Cohesive. A very "smooth" sound.

Love your vocal. Sits in the mix perfectly. Strong, with "warmth".

Cool song. The process is really intriguing. It would be cool to see the poem that it originated from (just for curiosity's sake).

There is a Neil Young-ish-ness to much of this (but "better").

I like it. A lot.

fj

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#601640 - 06/11/20 06:07 AM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4431
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
rayc Offline
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Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4431
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
Very NY and not just the harmonica...the vocal tone and phrase ends are NYish too.
The harmonica is a little loud.
I think the bass is, tonally, a little out of place - it has a clicky hard nose.
Your cello is lovely - I haven't recorded with mine for a decade!
I enjoyed the narrative though I pondered over shoes & ruins...not a deal breaker but it set me thinking about alternatives.
Lovely and well thought out draft.
I'd love to hear the cellos replace the bass. The bass part is fine but I'm not sure it's needed with the cellos available.
It'd be cool to pull the harmonica back to vocal level, (or visa versa).
COOL, lovely song!
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#601674 - 06/11/20 10:39 AM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 3812
Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 3812
Todd,
Came out beautiful! Very nice vocals and harmonica playing. The translitic process must be very fun. As FJ mentioned, would be interesting to see source text. Enjoyed it! Thank you for sharing.

Misha.

P.S. If you interested doing some translitic from Russian, let me know in PM, I might point you to a couple of things and help with transcription of challenging words.

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#601680 - 06/11/20 12:10 PM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 11794
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 11794
Loc: GA USA
That is a fascinating production process that made our
collective heads spin smile

The Neil vibe is definitely there and for us that is a
cool thing indeed. Really nice vocal and write.

The mix sounds good on our monitors. Excellent soundstage.

Well done!

J&B
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#601709 - 06/11/20 05:04 PM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 17392
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 17392
Loc: Hamlin NY
This is really good. I thought the mix is very good. I really like your voice, excellent job on this song. I got the Neil vibe also.

This is a very good song.
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#601799 - 06/12/20 01:06 PM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 6649
Loc: Edmonton, Ab, Canada
Scott C Offline
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Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 6649
Loc: Edmonton, Ab, Canada
I got the Neil vibe as well. This was a stellar vocal Todd, I am a fan. Loved the video as well. Incredible song

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#601821 - 06/12/20 03:46 PM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 11/18/19
Posts: 362
Loc: Chicago, IL
EdZ314 Offline
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Registered: 11/18/19
Posts: 362
Loc: Chicago, IL
This is an excellent song, and the vocals are outstanding. I really like the way the chorus keeps returning to the same, very strong vibe. It's highly accomplished on many levels. With that said, if you really want some actionable feedback at what would normally be the "nitpicking" level:

> Timing on some of the phrasing could be a bit tighter. Doesn't need to be perfectly on the beat in every case but a strategic lag or lead at certain key points can really carry. Sinatra, Manilow were masters of this, for example.

> I would experiment with a bit more dynamics in the vocals as well, at certain points - just a bit more soft and a bit more loud - again at key points, and you can vary that a bit between choruses - possibly increasing the tension in the later ones.

The lyrics are really good - very evocative, inspiring striking imagery and weaving a story. This line in particular stands out - I could absolutely see this being in a classic rock song:

"Let us dance, let us die, with our backs young and straight."

On the other hand, I'm not quite getting this one, but it could just be me:

"Oh, the curse of these rations--a brush twined with hair.
I'm like a bird deep in flight . . . that gets lost to the air."

This is way beyond anything that I could do myself, but I hope this feedback is helpful. Keep up the great work.


Edited by EdZ314 (06/12/20 03:48 PM)
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#601835 - 06/12/20 05:30 PM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3487
Loc: Murgon Queensland Australia
Rob4580 Offline
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Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3487
Loc: Murgon Queensland Australia
What a great song.
Do I hear a Neil Young influence?
Excellent production and band choice.
I love the clear penetrating vocal.
Well done. Rob4580

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#602041 - 06/14/20 02:36 PM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 12/21/13
Posts: 6571
Loc: Davis, CA
Greg Johnson Offline
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Registered: 12/21/13
Posts: 6571
Loc: Davis, CA
I LOVE THIS!!! Just so pleasant and easy to listen to.......meditative!! Really interesting lyric, and some wonderful emotion in the music/vocals! GREAT Stuff!! Take care. Greg

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#602093 - 06/15/20 06:39 AM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15338
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
AudioTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15338
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Very enjoyable listen, particularly impressed with the quality of the mix and the way the vocals and harmonica worked so well together.

Great job.
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#602149 - 06/15/20 11:11 AM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 06/09/16
Posts: 3179
Robertkc Offline
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Registered: 06/09/16
Posts: 3179
Todd,
I enjoyed this very much - lyrics that have a quirky power in mixed metaphor, held together by that nice warm chorus refrain.
You`ve had lots of pointed feedback; other than adding a high harmony on the chorus I didn`t hear much I`d change... and certainly keep the harp, it adds a folky sadness well suited to the song.

Robert

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#602208 - 06/15/20 10:35 PM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 06/04/20
Posts: 181
Loc: Texas, United States
TexasFrets Offline
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Registered: 06/04/20
Posts: 181
Loc: Texas, United States
Thanks FJ, for the observations. I'll try lowering the volume of the harmonica. I also felt it was harsh. I need to read more and experiment with recording and mixing the harmonica. I've seen some folks EQ harmonica and take out all the lows and highs; I might give that a try.

Thanks for the suggestion of taking out "are". I think that would make it easier to sing and probably easier for folks to understand.

Thanks for all your kind words. I'm happy you thought it had a Neil Young vibe. I thought that too.


Here is the foreign language poem I started with:

Hättest du der Einfalt nicht, wie sollte
dir geschehn, was jetzt die Nacht erhellt?
Sieh, der Gott, der über Völkern grollte,
macht sich mild und kommt in dir zur Welt.
Hast du dir ihn größer vorgestellt?
Was ist Größe? Quer durch alle Maße,
die er durchstreicht, geht sein grades Los.
Selbst ein Stern hat keine solche Straße.
Siehst du, diese Könige sind groß,
und sie schleppen dir vor deinen Schoß
Schätze, die sie für die größten halten,
und du staunst vielleicht bei dieser Gift -:
aber schau in deines Tuches Falten,
wie er jetzt schon alles übertrifft.
Aller Amber, den man weit verschifft,
jeder Goldschmuck und das Luftgewürze,
das sich trübend in die Sinne streut:
alles dieses war von rascher Kürze,
und am Ende hat man es bereut.
Aber (du wirst sehen): Er erfreut.


Here are the drafts:

Draft 1:

Hat test do dare eyeing fault nicked, wee Sultans
dirt gushing was jettisoned die Naked her hell
See dare God, dare big Vulcan growling
Make sick. Mild and come in dirt sure wilted.

Hats you dirt I grosser before stilts?

What is gross? Queer lurch all maize
die her lurch straight, gate sign graded loss
Self eyes stern hats kind gulch strands
seeing you these kings are gross

And she schlepps dirt before diner's shoes

Shootings die she for die gross haltings
and you staunch veal likes by diesel gifts
Abel shoes in diner touches the fallen
wee or jets shine always over trifles

All her amber, done man wet over trifles

Jesters--gold schmucks--and that lust for words
that such troubadours in the sins stretch
all these wars from rations cursed
and am ending had man in Beirut

a bird (you were saying) air air-fruit


Draft 2:

The hat test. She dared him, eyeing his faults--wee Sultan
Dirt gushing, they were jettisoned--to die naked--her hell.
To see and dare God, dare a big growling Vulcan--gods of fire.
To make sick and mild. To come in the dirt--surely wilted.

Hats and dirt. Was I grosser before stilts?

What is gross? Queers lurch all through the corn maize.
She will lurch and die straight. The gate sign: grades, loss.
Looking at herself with stern eyes: hats, kindness, the gulch like strands of flowing hair.
Seeing her, these (kings, queens, queers) look gross.

And she schleps the breakfast and sweeps dirt over the diner's shoes.

Shootings. People die. She would die for these gross haltings.
And your staunch veal--like eyes that beg diesel gifts.
Abel's shoes in the diner touch the fallen (city of angles)
A small gesture--jets shining always over trifles.

All her amber done--men get wet over trifles.

Jesters--gold schmucks--and their lust for words
Such troubadours in their sins stretch
all these wars out from their cursed rations
and are ending. Men in Beirut. (Martyrs square; Lebanese civil war)

A bird--you were saying--gets lost to the air. Air fruit.



Draft 3:

He tipped his hat. She eyed his faults. She dared him--wee Sultan.
Dirt gushing around them, they were jettisoned naked to die in their hell.
To see and dare God--to dare the big growling gods of the volcano (fire)
To be made sick and mild. To come in the dirt--his [*****] wilted.

Hats and dirt. Was I bigger when I walked on stilts?

What is disgusting? Queers lurching through the fields of corn.
She will lurch and die straight (not gay?). The gate sign: judgment and loss.
With stern eyes she looks in the mirror: hats and kindness. Her hair a dark river.
Seeing herself like this--she is the queen of disgust.

And she schleps the morning plates and sweeps dust over the diner's shoes.

Shootings. People die. She would die for these vulgar arrests.
And her staunch veal (slang- ) --her eyes like big diesel gifts.
Abel's bloody shoes in the diner touch the fallen.
always the small gesture--like a jet in the sun always shining over trifles.

All her amber spent--men get wet over trifles.

Tricksters and troubadours busting a gut for their golden lines (words)
Their sins stretch these wars out.
Their cursed rations are ending.
Like men in Beirut, their civil wars, their martyred squares.

A bird--you were saying--gets lost to the air. The fragrance of fruit (air fruit).



This gives you an idea of how the first few drafts evolve. From there, I usually come up with a progression and melody and then use those to measure and craft the subsequent drafts.






Originally Posted By: floyd jane
Todd,

First thing that "hit me" is the harmonica. The playing is fine. There is a bit of "harshness" to it - maybe a bit too much high EQ? and seems loud compared to the vocal (maybe 3 dB?). That seems the case each time it comes back...

The prosody of "...my hands are caked and stained" is a bit bumpy. (You could drop the word "are" to avoid that).

The rest of the production sounds really good. Cohesive. A very "smooth" sound.

Love your vocal. Sits in the mix perfectly. Strong, with "warmth".

Cool song. The process is really intriguing. It would be cool to see the poem that it originated from (just for curiosity's sake).

There is a Neil Young-ish-ness to much of this (but "better").

I like it. A lot.

fj


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#602242 - 06/16/20 06:10 AM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 09/02/18
Posts: 1791
Loc: Virginia USA
Ezekiel's Storm Offline
Expert

Registered: 09/02/18
Posts: 1791
Loc: Virginia USA
Your vocal really stands out--it has a nice quality.

Your harmonica playing sounds good. Yes, a little loud, but that's an easy fix.

I'm looking forward to hearing more from you.

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#602259 - 06/16/20 08:11 AM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 12/23/17
Posts: 780
Loc: Alabama
cliftond Offline
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Registered: 12/23/17
Posts: 780
Loc: Alabama
Oh yeah, you got a good one here. Neil Young type which is awesome!!!. Love it Cliff

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#602311 - 06/16/20 02:55 PM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: rayc]
Registered: 06/04/20
Posts: 181
Loc: Texas, United States
TexasFrets Offline
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Registered: 06/04/20
Posts: 181
Loc: Texas, United States
Originally Posted By: rayc
Very NY and not just the harmonica...the vocal tone and phrase ends are NYish too.
The harmonica is a little loud.
I think the bass is, tonally, a little out of place - it has a clicky hard nose.
Your cello is lovely - I haven't recorded with mine for a decade!
I enjoyed the narrative though I pondered over shoes & ruins...not a deal breaker but it set me thinking about alternatives.
Lovely and well thought out draft.
I'd love to hear the cellos replace the bass. The bass part is fine but I'm not sure it's needed with the cellos available.
It'd be cool to pull the harmonica back to vocal level, (or visa versa).
COOL, lovely song!



Cool. After I recorded it, it felt NYish to me too. I like Neil Young a lot, so I'm happy something of him comes across in my songs.

Thanks for the comments on the bass and the suggestion to maybe replace the bass with cellos.

I'll definitely think about alternatives to "shoes" and "ruins". Thanks for pointing that out.

I'll definitely pull back the harmonica level--and probably EQ it differently.

I hope you have a chance to pull out your cello. I wish I had more time to practice and record with mine. I have a Kemper amp, and it's super fun to run the cello through my pedal board and then into the Kemper.

Thanks again for all your super feedback and for your kind words about my song. Cheers!

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#602334 - 06/16/20 04:55 PM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 08/21/18
Posts: 1368
Tangmo Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/21/18
Posts: 1368
First off. Beautiful song. Poetic Americana at a very high level.

Actionable. Don't be ashamed of the harmonica. Raise it in the mix at or at least near to the level of you vocals. It's not really a background instrument here...it's a second voice.

Loved listening to this.
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#602443 - 06/17/20 01:39 PM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/04/20
Posts: 181
Loc: Texas, United States
TexasFrets Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 06/04/20
Posts: 181
Loc: Texas, United States
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Todd,
Came out beautiful! Very nice vocals and harmonica playing. The translitic process must be very fun. As FJ mentioned, would be interesting to see source text. Enjoyed it! Thank you for sharing.

Misha.

P.S. If you interested doing some translitic from Russian, let me know in PM, I might point you to a couple of things and help with transcription of challenging words.


Hi, Misha. Thanks so much. I'm happy you like it. Yes, the translitic process is a lot of fun. What's cool is that the less you know of the original language, the better it works. Here's a short bit I wrote for a workshop about this aspect of the translitic:

A translitic is a lyric "translated" from a foreign language by paying attention not to the meaning of the words but to their sounds. The lyricist uses as a guide whatever homonymic/homophonic associations come to mind.

For instance, if I ran across "сир" in Russian, I would see the word "cup" and use that in the first draft of my translitic. I would not try to translate "сир" into "sire" or "orphaned". As you can see, new and strange meanings are created. This allows you to find new words, new images, new phrases that you wouldn't normally. It forces you to go somewhere different with your lyrics.


I'd be happy to lead a translitic group here in the forums if you and others are interested. I could give a prompt poem every month, and at the end of the month, we could all share our translitic songs based on the poem.

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#602452 - 06/17/20 03:12 PM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 1707
Loc: Maryland
TuneMonger Offline
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Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 1707
Loc: Maryland
You sound so much like Neil Young you could be in a tribute band for him. What was his song called? Til the Morning Comes? Really nice work here, harp was okay, cellos were great, vox and song excellent.
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#602488 - 06/17/20 05:53 PM [User Showcase] Re: When the Morning Comes (a translitic song sketch) [Re: TexasFrets]
Registered: 04/17/20
Posts: 140
Chris Dent Offline
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Registered: 04/17/20
Posts: 140
I love this song. Singing and playing are excellent. I'm also intrigued by the translitic process. I for one would join a group exploring this...
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Band-in-a-Box® 2022 for Mac is here!

There are 50+ new features, 222 new RealTracks (20 more than we've released in previous versions), new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, Artist Performances, Xtra Styles PAK 13, XPro Styles PAKs 2 & 3, New "playable RealTracks" Hi-Q sounds, 2 sets of "RealDrums Stems," and more!

We're having a SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2022 Upgrade purchases until July 15, 2022 - save up to 50% when you purchase a Band-in-a-Box® 2022 for Mac Upgrade!

We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some amazing Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2022 packages! For more even more Add-ons (including 60 Unreleased RealTracks!), upgrade it to the 2022 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!

Learn more about all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2022 for Mac.

How to: Opening Multiple Instances of Band-in-a-Box®

Did you know that you can have multiple instances of Band-in-a-Box® open on your computer? There was a conversation about this recently on our Forum, so we put together this video explaining how: Opening Multiple Instances of Band-in-a-Box®

Want to see a quick video tutorial that's not on our Tips & Tricks list? You can post your request to our I want a video that shows me how to .... forum.

How to: Replacing a MIDI Track with an Audio Track (RealBand)

Using RealBand and wondering how to replace a MIDI track with an audio track?

We show you how in our RealBand®: Replacing a MIDI Track with an Audio Track
video!

How to: Setup and Record with a MIDI Keyboard in Band-in-a-Box® for Windows

Do you want to record your MIDI keyboard into Band-in-a-Box®, but aren't sure where to start? This quick video is what you've been looking for! How to Setup and Record with a MIDI Keyboard in Band-in-a-Box® for Windows.

User Guide: Working with MIDI

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