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Thanks for the information! Much appreciated. Looking forward to a fix ASAP. smile

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Originally Posted By: Andrew - PG Music

Edit - FYI one useful thing to know is that you can clone your Mac hard drive (e.g. using a program like Carbon Copy Cloner) onto an external USB hard drive, and then install a new OS onto that HD. You can then use System Preferences --> Startup disk to bootup in either OS.


Anyone here actually try to install a dual boot (i.e. macOS Catalina/Big Sur) and is currently using it w/ BIAB? Or is this one of those, "easier said than done" things.

EDIT: I don't have huge amounts of free space on my hard-drive either and BIAB is already running via USB external drive (that's how I purchased it).

I seriously don't want to hoop my MacBook Pro Big Sur (since its working pretty good w/ exception to BIAB). I've googled and have found general information (mostly from companies that want to sell you their cleaner product or copy/cloner product). Any links or videos someone use?

Not sure I still have macOS Catalina download link anymore.

Thanks.


Last edited by JFW; 12/23/20 04:00 AM.
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Good morning Andrew,
Thanks for the advice about an external drive with Catalina OS. I worked on this yesterday, creating bootable installer etc. Ended up creating a new volume on HD then installing Catalina there and reinstalling BIAB. Now my machine can boot with Big Sur or Catalina. Works great! No more glitches, up and running again. Thanks again!

JFW #632052 12/23/20 05:24 AM
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Catalina install still on App Store. Did dual boot yesterday, works real good. It is a bit of work but not rocket science.

TRYUK #632059 12/23/20 05:51 AM
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This seems to happen every other year/MacOS update, when several of my day-to-day go-to software doesn't run properly on the new OS. Hence I never upgrade MacOS until I know it is safe (usually about half a year to one year later). I just upgraded to Catalina yesterday (smooth), and will probably wait with Big Sur another year. If there are enough new goodies in the newly released OS version (which happens quite seldom), I install it on a separate drive, using dual boot.

I realise it is frustrating for you who have already upgraded, and I appreciate the hard work I know the PGMusic developers put it to solve the problems as quickly as possible.

Stay safe and have a really Merry Christmas!
/Björn

JFW #632333 12/24/20 01:49 PM
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Thanks for the kind words everyone!


Originally Posted By: JFW
Originally Posted By: Andrew - PG Music

Edit - FYI one useful thing to know is that you can clone your Mac hard drive (e.g. using a program like Carbon Copy Cloner) onto an external USB hard drive, and then install a new OS onto that HD. You can then use System Preferences --> Startup disk to bootup in either OS.


Anyone here actually try to install a dual boot (i.e. macOS Catalina/Big Sur) and is currently using it w/ BIAB? Or is this one of those, "easier said than done" things.

EDIT: I don't have huge amounts of free space on my hard-drive either and BIAB is already running via USB external drive (that's how I purchased it).

I seriously don't want to hoop my MacBook Pro Big Sur (since its working pretty good w/ exception to BIAB). I've googled and have found general information (mostly from companies that want to sell you their cleaner product or copy/cloner product). Any links or videos someone use?

Not sure I still have macOS Catalina download link anymore.

Thanks.




It's not hard at all to install a dual boot with an external hard drive, as Andrew suggested. The short version is basically download it from your app store account, run the installer, and it'll ask you which drive you want to install Catalina into. Then, whenever you want to switch from one OS to the other, you hold down Option when you boot the computer. I've got an external SSD with Mac OS Catalina, Mojave, High Sierra, and Windows 10 on it, and only the Windows was difficult to set up!

If you don't have a lot of internal space, you'd need an external drive of some sort.


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TRYUK #633165 12/29/20 07:12 AM
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I'm reporting my experience as well hoping it'll help with the issue.

I use Band in a Box on two macs: a MBP15" 2018 with 16GB RAM with a 4GB Radeon Vega 20 and an iMac Pro with a 10-core Xeon, 64GB RAM, and a 16GB Radeon Vega 64. Both are running the latest version of Big Sur at the time of writing: 11.1.

I have upgraded BiaB to V421 on both computers. The program runs on the laptop, but crashes on the iMac. Disabling the plugins by putting the safemode.txt file in the preference directory makes the program run on the iMac. In both systems I see the purple streaks, regardless of whether or not the interface is compact or full toolbar. The purple streaks do not affect the rest of the functionality.

The only difference between the two is that on the iMac Pro I have installed the Krisp microphone enhancer, whereas it is not installed on the laptop.

I use BiaB just for personal enjoyment, as a complement to my arranger keyboard, so the fact that it does not work perfectly at this time is not causing any immediate or critical issue. I'd have liked to use BiaB a bit more during the holidays, but that's not a serious issue.

The combination of changes in the OS that create unwanted side effects, the possible technical debt accumulated on development, and the raising priority for the 2021 Mac release creates a difficult situation for everyone, which is unfortunate.

I hope that by contributing with our individual cases, we can provide an ampler database that helps resolve the issue for both the 2020 version and the 2021 version of BiaB for Mac. I also hope that the team can have the time to consider reducing the technical debt in the UI, even though I understand that using cross-platform user interface libraries creates inevitable restrictions. In my dreams, I'd imagine a version of BiaB that fully adopts SwiftUI.

In conclusion, my thanks to the development team for an excellent program and to the music team for the great artists and ideas embedded in BiaB. I hope this helps, and I look forward to the next versions; I will continue to support you as much as I can.

All the best,
Luigi

TRYUK #633188 12/29/20 09:14 AM
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Just coming on for my weekly... "another unbelievably frustrating morning of teaching with a program that is integral to my business not working"

I'm sure they are working hard but this somehow dozens of my other programs have been updated in the last 1.5 months since Big Sur and are working fine.

Sorry I'm not trying to come out sounding like a dick it is just SOOOO frustrating when ones business relies on a program that can't seem to make any fixes after well over a month of not functioning. :-(

Absolutely no eta on any fix at all?

TRYUK #633270 12/29/20 02:59 PM
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Crickets...

Yendog #633570 12/30/20 11:09 PM
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Hi,the only solution that I found in front of BIAB bugs under Big Sur is unfortunately to go back to Catalina while waiting for the PGmusic team to fix the bugs. It's frustrating to buy an Ultrapack and find that not everything is working with Apple's latest O.S. Rolling back under Catalina was painful because TimeMAchine's backup under Big Sur is unreadable under Catalina. I had to reinstall all my programs to find a fully operational system. This is not a problem for me I am a computer scientist but as a musician I admit that I have other things to do than to find solutions to bugs which have been known for almost two months. PG Music is very good to announce a new 2021 version for PC but Mac users are a bit forgotten when it comes to version tracking

Calmeraie #633655 12/31/20 09:38 AM
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"computer scientist"? You weren't aware that Big Sur OS Time Machine backups would not be compatible with Catalina OS? You should ask for a job with PG Music.

TRYUK #633697 12/31/20 03:31 PM
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Hey PG Music,
How about instead of the long awaited 2020 update, Mac users get a new UI and a solid technical foundation? This outdated 1990's Windows UI is terrible and so full of bugs, even on Catalina OS. It feels just like I am stuck in Microsoft. Our machines deserve better!

Last edited by CrvsCrx; 12/31/20 03:32 PM.
CrvsCrx #633716 12/31/20 05:38 PM
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I think there's a huge opportunity if PG Music were to leverage the IP they have, with all their RealStyles and arranger knowledge, and create a modern app for iPadOS that could then be added to and deployed on Macs using things like Apple's Catalyst. There is a thriving music scene on iOS, with some very professional apps like Cubasis 3 available.
The iPad app wouldn't need to try to cover every use case, as the current app does, instead it could provide an entry level platform. Many users don't need all the features of the current app, and don't really deserve the dreadfully dated interface...

Robert Wood #633786 01/01/21 06:08 AM
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Robert Wood,

Great observations and comments. May I ask a few questions?

Assuming PG Music built, received Apple certification and posted an IOS app on the Apple store, how much could they charge and the app not be considered overpriced? For relative comparison, what is the Cubasis 3 app selling for?

Assuming not all features are offered, who decides what features are left out and what data or information is available to base the decisions on?

For background consider this, when the current plugin was first released, the intent was for the plugin to be a "plugin lite" for use in a DAW. Since that first release many features have been added to the plugin because users requested them. Users do not want a plugin lite, they want a plugin.


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Jim Fogle #633787 01/01/21 06:14 AM
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My thoughts exactly. The first thing I thought of though was how many of the audio (styles) files could you put in such an app before the iPad ran out of memory.

CrvsCrx #633849 01/01/21 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
"computer scientist"? You weren't aware that Big Sur OS Time Machine backups would not be compatible with Catalina OS? You should ask for a job with PG Music.



Very nice your message. We feel that you are in empathy on this forum. Don't worry, I know my job very well. The remark was made to help people who do not know everything about computers. But obviously you had trouble understanding my writing.

TRYUK #633916 01/02/21 04:02 AM
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I learned long ago to never upgrade an OS until every app I need has been demonstrated to be fully functional. Last year it took until late February for Izotope products to work with the 64 bit changes via Catalina (for which I might add BiaB was ready early on). I'm sympathetic to the frustrations expressed by many but I would politely suggest that caustic remarks bring nothing of value to the discussion. FWIW, etc., etc.

Happy New Year all!

J&B

Jim Fogle #634050 01/02/21 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle


Assuming PG Music built, received Apple certification and posted an IOS app on the Apple store, how much could they charge and the app not be considered overpriced? For relative comparison, what is the Cubasis 3 app selling for?

Assuming not all features are offered, who decides what features are left out and what data or information is available to base the decisions on?


Cubasis sells on the App Store for around US$50 - and then has a range of IAPs (In-App Purchases). Pricing for a good iPad arranger app would obviously depend on the range of features - options could include a "Lite" version for the user with simpler needs and a "Pro" version for power users.

I think there is real value in PG Music's IP in the RealStyles, and could envisage them being sold as in app purchases. There is a popular iPad app called BeatHawk that has a huge number of music building blocks sold in themed packages.

TRYUK #634051 01/02/21 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: TRYUK
My thoughts exactly. The first thing I thought of though was how many of the audio (styles) files could you put in such an app before the iPad ran out of memory.


Well, the iPad Pro has up to 1TB of memory these days, and the mid-level iPad Air goes up to 256GB. Plenty of room for a very large number of RealStyles - and iPads and iPhones can read from external drives these days as well.

TRYUK #634251 01/03/21 03:13 PM
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Robert Wood,

Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts and answer our questions. You've given some great feedback for PG Music's consideration.


Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1109) RB (Build 3) Ultra+ PAK
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Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H2, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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