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No matter how much we think we know, it's so easy to overlook the obvious. My computer suddenly would not wake up yesterday morning. I usually leave it running for several days then let it reboot. This time no matter what I did it would not wake up so I had to do a hard shut down. Rebooted it and it took forever, then I see a blue screen MS update error. Oh, oh I thought. Did this thing shut down or lock up in the middle of an update? I get past that and then it booted to the bios screen for no apparent reason. Nothing wrong there as far as I could tell.
I exited the bios and it finally booted to the desktop but I could tell something was very wrong. I did another reboot. It took like 6 minutes and then I try to go online and it's like everything had slowed down 90%. I close the brower and opened a couple programs, same thing. Lots of hanging before anything happens including typing. My system was very sick.
Thinking I had a corrupted update I did a restore back to August 19. That only took 3 1/2 hours and when it rebooted I could tell it was still not right. Same long bootup, same hiccups going online and other things, same restarts hoping for the best but nada.
Suddenly I realized when I was standing next to it I couldn't hear the fan. I bent over and put my ear close and definitely no fan. I immediately opened CPUID and sure enough the CPU is running at 85c! I looked up my processor and the range is supposed to be 56-65c with an absolute max temp of 71. I shut it down for an hour and booted it up again but with my big floor fan blowing directly on it from two feet away. That was 5 hours ago and it runs perfectly. CUPID says it's about 59c. I say about because it measures each core, plus other stuff separately.
All that grief, and what happened is the fan stopped working and it overheated.
AARGGHH!
At least I don't need a new computer. Yet. I think it knows I'm replacing it when Win 11 comes out.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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LOL, I am laughing with you not at you Bob. I think your poor Intel 4770 should file an age discrimination lawsuit.
I had a similar overheating problem which I think was the eventual cause of the motherboard failure. I just finished rebuilding that Intel 4770 machine. New motherboard and new Intel i5 processor. I am very happy with the results.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Good work diagnosing. The next step will be to see if the replacement fan runs, so you can determine if it’s the fan controller on the motherboard, the power supply, or just a plain burned out or frozen fan.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I had a fan go on an old laptop. It wouldn't start, instead it gave me a DOS-Like "FAN ERROR" message. Fortunately, UTube taught me how to replace it.
I hope your replacement goes as easily as mine did. The hardest part was disassembling it enough to get to the fan.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I had a fan go on an old laptop. It wouldn't start, instead it gave me a DOS-Like "FAN ERROR" message. Fortunately, UTube taught me how to replace it.
I hope your replacement goes as easily as mine did. The hardest part was disassembling it enough to get to the fan.
Notes At least the computer told you what was happening, and you didn't have to chase the problem down like Bob did! Thankfully for him his computer was designed to throttle the CPU when overheating to prevent damage, which was causing the slowdown and weirdness - though I'd personally give it a stress test once the fan is replaced, just to make sure there was no damage!
I work here
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Bob, there is a free program called Core Temp that you can download and put on the desktop. You can program it to display alarms/temps and even turn your computer off.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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That sounds better than CUPID, thanks. That would have saved me some time for sure. I'm away from home again but before I left this morning it booted up normal. I opened both Firefox and Edge to multiple pages, played some Biab songs and streamed some vids and it runs perfectly as long as my big fan is blowing on it, haha. When I get back I'll take it apart and see if I can replace the fan. It will be tight because it's a ZOTAC Zbox mini PC that I love because it uses mostly standard components without using mobile stuff. It's about the size of my 4TB full size external drives.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Bob, I use open hardware monitor: https://openhardwaremonitor.org/It reads the cpu temps, fan speeds, and a ton of other information. Plus its free.
Today I bought a doughnut without the sprinkles. Diets are hard!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I had a fan go on an old laptop. It wouldn't start, instead it gave me a DOS-Like "FAN ERROR" message. Fortunately, UTube taught me how to replace it.
I hope your replacement goes as easily as mine did. The hardest part was disassembling it enough to get to the fan.
Notes At least the computer told you what was happening, and you didn't have to chase the problem down like Bob did! Thankfully for him his computer was designed to throttle the CPU when overheating to prevent damage, which was causing the slowdown and weirdness - though I'd personally give it a stress test once the fan is replaced, just to make sure there was no damage! I agree. Another reason I use ThinkPads I can troubleshoot PA systems, and even Cable TV Systems (I had a job doing that when I was testing out what it is to be 'normal') but inside the computer itself I'm afraid I'm pretty worthless at diagnosing all but the simplest problems. I do know a good repair shop, though I hardly ever need to use them. Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I visited the website and discovered Zotac makes some nice looking, purpose built computers. The +++ Zotac Download Center +++ has manuals available by model number. There maybe an exploded diagram or parts list to help with the fan. The +++ Mainboard +++ picture on the website show the fan is held in place with spring clips. It's difficult to say from the picture but the fan looks to be a standard size.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1124) RB (Build 4) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Interestingly, the fan on a refrigerator will also cause it to stop working. The evaporator fan.
Computers. Yep.... I worked for a company doing some 3rd party servicing on their equipment and systems. I got called to a hospital and was told the system was crashing and wasn't running right. I get there and the head of security starts telling me he wants a brand new server installed TODAY! I explain that I'm a 3rd party factory trained tech but I don't carry $25k servers in my truck. So he storms off and I start working on the system. I open it up and go into the CPU. First clue was the air intake filter was clogged by dust. Inside the CPU I found more dust than should be in the entire hospital. I used canned air to blow it out and the cloud of dust and dust bunnies was unreal. I reassembled it and called him to come back to the nurse station. He gets there and says... "Well?" I pointed to the dust bunnies on the desk, explained where they came from, and told him he really needed to set up a PM schedule to clean the dust filter on a monthly basis. He yells about wanting a new server and I pointed out that I doubted that they were going to replace a 9 month old server that had dust blocking the cooling air intake. Veins were throbbing on his temple and he stomps off.... I tried to call him back to sign the paperwork but he never returned. I left. The system worked well from that point and didn't crash as far as I know. He was not happy and told the company to never send me back. OK.... I'm actually good with that.
BTW.... I started this computer a few minutes ago.... the screen was blank. Nothing.... I know the HDMI died so I have been running on the VGA. I'm thinking the worst as well.... Oh great, the video outs are toasted.... I start checking the wires and the VGA cable had fallen out of the connector on the monitor. (wipes the sweat).... up and running. Maybe there's a lesson there? I should be looking for a replacement computer and switch everything before the inevitable happens?
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 09/14/21 07:40 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Yes, in my early years in repairing electronic equipment, a very experienced colleague used to always say: "start with a visual inspection". Your two examples above demonstrate how that is generally the best starting point.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Also, consider it may be a short between the chair and the keyboard.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Also, consider it may be a short between the chair and the keyboard. Yeah my problems are always a loose nut on the keyboard.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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Also, consider it may be a short between the chair and the keyboard. PICNIC? (problem in chair, not in computer  )
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Yep. But to be fair, even these problems are not helped by poor software design or weak documentation.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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O.M.
One of the things I say all the time in my business.... Operator Malfunction.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I definitely sympathize with this. Sometimes all it takes to get your computer up and running is a replacement fan, although with some laptop models that come with the plastic clips it can be a bit of a pain the butt to do the replacement. Glad the resolution ended up being fairly easy to remedy.
Cheers,
Ember
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Guitar picks are, hands down, the best tool for the job when it comes to things held together with plastic clips. They're cheap as chips too!
I work here
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Guitar picks are, hands down, the best tool for the job when it comes to things held together with plastic clips. Another reason us keyboard players didn't get the chicks...
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Guitar picks are, hands down, the best tool for the job when it comes to things held together with plastic clips. Another reason us keyboard players didn't get the chicks... As a keyboard player myself, I think it's mostly because it's impossible to look cool playing keyboards - unless your last name is Jarre of course.
I work here
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Are you saying Canadian born keyboardist Paul Shaffer ain't cool? C'mon
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1124) RB (Build 4) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Ha, he looks like an an aging accounting professor trying to look cool... Been busy, sorry to be late to my own thread. A followup to my system. I took it apart and there was very little dust but I cleaned anyway. When I went looking for my PC toolkit I also found a little USB powered external 3.5" fan I bought years ago and completely forgot about. I plugged that in, placed it right next to the cooling holes and it works great. I can move my 40" tall portable swamp cooler back into it's den until next summer. I use it to supplement my AC because the elctric bills where I'm at are horrendous.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Well, I'm still not completely out of the woods. After fixing the initial glitches from over heating, the system starting taking 15-20 minutes to boot. I didn't say anything here because it was working and I needed it to get me through the October 15 tax filing season. Then I would look to figure that out. I checked the Start menu to see if some app was hanging things up but saw nothing like that.
Last week there was a Windows update and after it installed the boot time was back to normal but yesterday it's back to being over 15 minutes again but it's not consistant. It seems to be going back and forth between normal and taking forever like today. This morning it took almost 20 minutes, I had it on for a few hours and decided to do a restart as a test and it booted right up. Before I give up and get or build a new system I was thinking of doing the Windows Repair thing where it cleans up the OS but keeps all the files and see if that helps but I'm thinking it's probably physical like a failing power supply or the memory or something like that. Any ideas?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I was thinking about your power supply as I read your report. It’s easy to use a power supply tester to check that. Mine is maybe 15 years old now but it only cost me about $20 back then.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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With an intermittent issue like that, I'm leaning towards hardware myself. Power supply, hard drive, RAM, in that order I'd say.
If you have a standard multimeter you can check how many volts your PSU is putting out - it should be within 10%. Unfortunately that test does not properly load-test the power supply, but assuming you test voltage with the computer powered on that should be a start. I'd test from an unused 4-pin Molex connectors - you should get 5v and 12v from those. Do NOT try to measure Amps using a multimeter unless you know what you're doing, that will likely short out the power supply and - at best - pop the fuse in the multimeter without further damage, and at worst could start a fire.
Hard drive, try and get the SMART data from it. Even if the software says it passes, look for things like Load Cycle and see if they're excessively high (over 300,000).
Ram - load Memtest86 onto a USB stick and run that overnight until it passes at least 3 times with no failure. It's possible for inconsistent RAM to pass, hence going for at least 3 passes. Leave it for a few days if you like.
I work here
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Memtest is a good suggestion. It’s the easiest way to rule out one possible cause.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows® Today!
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With the launch of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows, we're adding new videos to our YouTube channel. We'll also share them here once they are published so you can easily find all the Band-in-a-Box® 2025 and new Add-on videos in one place!
Whether it's a summary of the new features, demonstrations of the 202 new RealTracks, new XPro Styles PAK 8, or Xtra Styles PAKs 18, information on the 2025 49-PAK, or detailed tutorials for other Band-in-a-Box® 2025 features, we have you covered!
Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Videos - we will be updating this post as more videos are added!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until December 31, 2024! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
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