I have been following this thread with interest. My 2011 i7 (3.4 GHz - 16 gigs of ram) machine is just now starting to choke when I use a lot of tracks and/or effects. I have found ways to keep using it but soon it must be replaced.
I will do what I did back then and that is look at the minimum and suggested specifications of the software I may purchase then buy a computer with more than those suggested specs. I will buy the fastest CPU with the capability of using 32 or 64 gigs of ram that I can afford and that meets my expected software purchases. It will be a tower machine as I need a lot of USB ports. This worked in 2011 so I think it will work now.
Of course a lot of this depends on chip shortages and inflation because I am on a fixed income.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Mario. From what ive heard re your clever song scores/midi etc , obviously your further in using sample libs than i am. So correct me if i’m wrong on the following…...
Ive been looking up on google what system requirements are needed for various orch libs. There is a little wrinkle…. A company might post on its site the requirements for ITS product eg x.x ghz cpu, yyy gb disc space etc etc….BUT what happens if one wants to really mix it up in a song project and use say ..AAA strings from one company ..BBB tympani from another company ..CCC violins from another ..DDD horns from another ..EEE oboes from another ..FFF choirs from another etc etc
So in above example there would be i guess 6 different traks loaded with different companies vsti.. Reflecting the composers orch prefs. Eg might use violins from one company and french horn from another etc etc.
Thus my question…the different vsti’s from different companies loaded on different traks….... How does that impact the overall system pc technical needs ? This is a major quandary for me. Ie maybe one orch lib has modest system needs eg 2ghz 60 gigs space…but what happens when the composer wants to load different vsti’s into the daw from different companies…on different traks...whats the impact ?
In summary some people might buy a mid level processor for one orch lib, but then find as they purchase and use other orch libs the processor puffs out under load and is inadequate. Ive googled and googled on this topic and found scant info.
A company might post on its site the requirements for ITS product eg x.x ghz cpu, yyy gb disc space etc etc….BUT what happens if one wants to really mix it up in a song project and use say ..AAA strings from one company ..BBB tympani from another company ..CCC violins from another ..DDD horns from another ..EEE oboes from another ..FFF choirs from another etc etc
I do this all the time (as a hobbiest) My current "big" project has 54 tracks. I have throw at it every Sound library I own - including over 20 occurrences of Kontack 6 and a dozen Spitfire occurrences. My system handles this good enough to play it but it takes better part of 5 minutes to fully load which I would like to decrease.
So my next system will have more RAM, more SSD space and more CPU then my current.
Like Dan I do that all of the time and in fact many times I will duplicate an instrument track and use two or more different programs for one sound. That way I don't have the identical sounding instruments as say a violin from one company may/will sound a little different than a violin from a different company. All violins in an orchestra do not actually sound identical, a chorus effect, because every violinist does not place their finger in exactly the same place on the neck. They are extremely close but not necessarily identical. Plus the string maybe go ever so slightly out of tune during the performance.
I doubt that you will find anything about the use of different company's software in conjunction with another company's software.
Also when you use only one instrument from a collection of instruments you are not loading the entire program, just that one instrument. Thus the impact on your system is much less.
I still say buy the fastest CPU with the most ram and the largest HD(s) you can afford. I did that in 2011 and I am still using it today.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
WOW ! Dan are you saying with that project loaded with libs…its 5 mins to load up the project... In reaps ? Your i7 7700 is not exactly a slouch. Its not like your running a puny processor.
This is getting scary…cos what it tells me is i gotta pay big money to play the orch lib game. Cos also there is the cost of the libs themselves. Seems to me to achieve what i want ie at your level dan… trak/plug ins wise its getting very expensive if one wants to get heavy into orch libs.
Looks like the total solution including uber powerful new pc and powerful orch libs …looks like a 5k investment. Minimum. Am i correct ? cos looks like i really need an i9 or threadripper high end system. Ie the sorta budget a big studio i used to record in might have….and A list artist level budgets.
I think i’m gonna have to get into orch libs slowly//carefully….sigh.
I have one question for you om. Do you really need high end orchestra programs? I have a few $200 or less orchestra programs that meet my needs, I think you have commented on them. I have collected them over many years; I've been doing MIDI since the mid 1980s.
Now don't get me wrong I would love to have a $1k orchestra program but I must be realistic about it as I am not making any money on my little ditties and I'm on a fixed income. YMMV
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Mario. Thanks for contributing to this thread. Heres my situation up to this point. ive done bout 90 songs this way useing bb//rb//reaps combo.
I typically am happy with the bb/rb RT’s for song foundation and bed traks..BUT.. I often struggle to find a solo RT i really like. Eg today i spent lots of time trying to find a solo i liked. Often i have to do lots of “massaging” of a solo and reamping triks to get what is in my mind…thus.. i really dont like the metal RT's for example. as well as various other rock solos.
Ive been really looking heavily at various vsti’s…but of course they have their own plusses and minuses. One prob i have with bb RT’s is i rarely find a rock solo guitar i like. Just dont float my boat…so i massage the trak often with my own guitar and various subtleties etc.
Overall i’m looking for vsti flexibility , but one concern i have with any expensive lib is not just the time spent on the “golden nugget sound pictures” that take a song to the next level,...worried bout wading thru' loads of menus etc. also if i spend mucho dollars on a high end lib…..will i keep on having to pay and pay as new sounds are introduced. I dont want to get on that wheel…sorta like the monthly cable bill or taxes and bills that never end in ones life…lol. If you notice lots of companies selling stuff these days want to get money from you every month. they want that verified cash flow. Very few often , after the initial purchase have free upgrades for a number ofreleases. One reason i like reaps is the fair biz model, like pg too with inexpensive yearly upgrades for ultrapak users.
I think mario prolly my best bet is, eg the ryzen series…see what i can do with a R5…then replace on mainboard with a R7 …etc etc. same idea if i go intel…upgradeable mainboard.... i5>i7>i9 sorta idea.
Like you i cant afford big dollar libs even tho’ i often like their sounds. Like you i enjoy doing “ditties”...sometimes crazy rockers and sometimes more MOR or ballads.
my overall concept is how one can use orchestral sounds in rockers....and various genres. Eg the procol harem classic done with the edmonton symphony orchestra. Its amazing how long ago that was done…one of my fav songs....a total brilliant classic.
I don't want to copy obviously …i just like the concept of rock with an orchestra.
What I used to do was do it in pieces, render to a high-quality audio file, then use that vs. the midi track and VI. Now I don't have that problem as I have oodles of ram and processing power to do what I need on as many tracks as I need. I have not reached the limit yet. Have not even tested the limit yet.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
OM, I have a couple of questions for ya: 1-Do you own the full version of Kontakt? 2-Do you know much about MIDI control? 3-How much do you know about orchestration?
1-IMHO you don't need those high priced libs for your compositions. The full version of Kontakt (if you don't already have it wait for a sale and get it around half off) and some of its libraries are all you need. There are a ton of third party libs for Kontakt. You have heard many of them in my compositions.
2- Controlling MIDI is how you create realism. Even if you did purchase a high priced orchestra lib it still would sound static without some MIDI manipulation. I number of years ago a guy did a classical piece of music using a GM orchestra and it sounded like a million dollar lib. I looked for it last night but couldn't find it.
3-Orchestration is the key to having a lib sound organic. This is as important and #2.
Other questions would be what type of guitar sound do you want. If you have a MIDI guitar track but don't like the sound then Blue Cat's RE-Guitar is what you need:
Etcjoe. Sounds like you have a very interesting system there. Would you be good enough and share config details eg processor etc ? And how many traks max and vi’s it will do max ? Yes i do things currently as per your method…mixdown to stereo then a vi at a time if the Pc gets too bogged down on a big project. I’m having fun with the extra bb utility traks in 2022. Lots of good stuff and triks to experiment with .
Mario. ..i havent plunged into kontakt yet cos i'm worried bout pc load. ..yes i'm aware of midi control nuances //control etc but not an expert like you. ..i'm not an expert at orchestration mate...lol. ..yep bluecat is good stuff. ..i love ph conquistador.
ps mario..youve heard a few of my looney/mor etc tunes i have fun with...do you think they are worth it ? lmao. its all fun to me.
What I used to do was do it in pieces, render to a high-quality audio file, then use that vs. the midi track and VI. Now I don't have that problem as I have oodles of ram and processing power to do what I need on as many tracks as I need. I have not reached the limit yet. Have not even tested the limit yet.
This is a very good step to your work flow. Not only does it allow you to manage the resources in your computer it also future proofs your songs. If you want to revisit your song in a couple of years will you have the exact setup. Does the new version of your DAW still accept the older plugins.
The new marketing model is for subscription based vst's.
If you keep a dry version and wet version of your stems all you need is more hard drive space which is cheaper than ram and cpu.
Mario. ..i havent plunged into kontakt yet cos i'm worried bout pc load. Kontakt might be your first purchase for your new computer. ..yes i'm aware of midi control nuances //control etc but not an expert like you. I am not an expert, just a hacker at it. ..i'm not an expert at orchestration mate...lol. Neither am I but I am trying to learn ..yep bluecat is good stuff. Yep ..i love ph conquistador. Same here
ps mario..youve heard a few of my looney/mor etc tunes i have fun with...do you think they are worth it ? lmao. Yes of course its all fun to me.
Happiness. om
At my age if it ain't fun and doesn't have to be done then I ain't doing it.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Etcjoe. Sounds like you have a very interesting system there. Would you be good enough and share config details eg processor etc ? And how many traks max and vi’s it will do max ? Yes i do things currently as per your method…mixdown to stereo then a vi at a time if the Pc gets too bogged down on a big project. I’m having fun with the extra bb utility traks in 2022. Lots of good stuff and triks to experiment with .
Mario. ..i havent plunged into kontakt yet cos i'm worried bout pc load. ..yes i'm aware of midi control nuances //control etc but not an expert like you. ..i'm not an expert at orchestration mate...lol. ..yep bluecat is good stuff. ..i love ph conquistador.
ps mario..youve heard a few of my looney/mor etc tunes i have fun with...do you think they are worth it ? lmao. its all fun to me.
Happiness. om
I don't know the limit of how many I can use, but I have had 36 tracks going, with multiple VSTs in use across the whole project. I use Kontakt, Native Instruments Komplete, IK Multimedia SampleTank 4 mostly. My system is nothing special: It is a Dell, 11th Gen Intel Core i7-11700 @ 2.50 GHz, 64 GB ram (which is key for lots of VSTs is my understanding) A couple of SSD's with the library stuff on them.
I make sure the only thing running is whatever Windows 11 needs to run and my DAW and VSTs. I have cleaned up my startup so the bare minimum runs at startup, system drive is an SSD and I get from cold to windows in about 13 seconds.
I routinely do some maintenance, getting rid of clutter etc. as it is the same machine I use for everything in my life. I haver some external drives that I do backups to, just in case.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
Thanks sooo much. Much appreciated for your comments and stats. Mario your heavy into vi’s …how much ram do you use ?
Etcjoe….yep ive realised i need oodles of ram another reason i’m still considering refurb hp workstation hpz with xeons and come with often ssd’s and loads of ram for 600 buks or even less. And i can slam in more ssd’s. But their processors have now been surpassed for single thread by ryzens passmark stats…so i’m in a quandary…lol.
The upper level of traks/plug ins i would use in a song follow about your stats etcjoe. Happiness to you both….keep rocking. and thanks again.
ps mario my wife always looks forward, as do i, your comical vignettes in your sig.
My system is nothing special: It is a Dell, 11th Gen Intel Core i7-11700 @ 2.50 GHz, 64 GB ram (which is key for lots of VSTs is my understanding) A couple of SSD's with the library stuff on them. ... system drive is an SSD and I get from cold to windows in about 13 seconds.
Thanks sooo much. Much appreciated for your comments and stats. Mario your heavy into vi’s …how much ram do you use ? 16gigs
Etcjoe….yep ive realised i need oodles of ram another reason i’m still considering refurb hp workstation hpz with xeons and come with often ssd’s and loads of ram for 600 buks or even less. And i can slam in more ssd’s. But their processors have now been surpassed for single thread by ryzens passmark stats…so i’m in a quandary…lol.
The upper level of traks/plug ins i would use in a song follow about your stats etcjoe. Happiness to you both….keep rocking. and thanks again.
ps mario my wife always looks forward, as do i, your comical vignettes in your sig. OK I'll keep doing it
om
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Many times we find CPU models that have a letter at the end, that also determines performance. I have an I7 8750H, Here you can see what the H means or other letters within the range of intel processors. If you buy an i9 ending in the letter U or T for example don't expect high performance for video or music, in fact for example any 10th gen Core i5 is better than a 3rd gen Core i7 in terms of performance, so not just because it is a Core i7 or i9 in this case is "good".
K: CPU with multipliers unlocked (for overclocking). F: CPU with iGPU disabled, no integrated graphics. G: with dedicated graphics card. U: Very low power consumption CPU (laptops). T: Very Low Power CPU (Desktop). H: High performance integrated graphics processor. HK: CPU with multipliers unlocked (for overclocking) and integrated high-performance graphics processor. HQ: Quad-core CPU and integrated high-performance graphics processor.
A professional of orchestral soundtracks uses an i9 10980X which has 16 cores and 256 gb of ram. the x means extreme edition so it is important to look at what was said above. A greeting
To the one who gets up early, nobody makes him breakfast.
Thanks sooo much. Much appreciated for your comments and stats. Mario your heavy into vi’s …how much ram do you use ? 16gigs
Etcjoe….yep ive realised i need oodles of ram another reason i’m still considering refurb hp workstation hpz with xeons and come with often ssd’s and loads of ram for 600 buks or even less. And i can slam in more ssd’s. But their processors have now been surpassed for single thread by ryzens passmark stats…so i’m in a quandary…lol.
The upper level of traks/plug ins i would use in a song follow about your stats etcjoe. Happiness to you both….keep rocking. and thanks again.
ps mario my wife always looks forward, as do i, your comical vignettes in your sig. OK I'll keep doing it
om
Hey Mario, does anybody really know what time it is?
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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