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#733555 10/04/22 03:08 PM
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Here's a good video on this topic.

I often work with cans first and check it with speakers.




https://youtu.be/s4YuXNTCU2Y




Last edited by Guitarhacker; 10/04/22 03:10 PM.

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Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
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The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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There are lots of different ways to do a successful mix. I would never do the first or main mix in headphones, but it’s a critical way to check your final mix. Test for phase cancellation, something not possible to do with regular monitors. Also check for muddy bass, or weak bass.

But I did not view the video.


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Not since the Koss 4A. I could get a mix that sounded the same on my JBL 4311s and I could trust it. That was 40 years ago.

Otherwise, what Matt said.


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I'm no expert here, but I use both. Sometimes headphones give the the ability to listen to critical nuances in a recording, including the ability to detect artifacts that might not be obvious. Monitors give the ability to listen to the production as a whole including balance, levels, quality, fidelity, mix and more.

Both are versatile tools, but I think that good quality monitors take precedence in deciding on a final production.


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I do all of my mixing with monitors then check it with headphones.

I did not view the video as I am pressed for time.


Why is it that the people who tell me to calm down are the ones who tick me off in the first place!

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Originally Posted By: MarioD
I do all of my mixing with monitors then check it with headphones.

Same, and I also check the mix in the car.




Steve

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I started mixing in 1966 but have never used cans except when recording of course. smile For us all is done with our Kali studio monitors (8" woofer). They have adjustments that allow consideration of closeness to walls, distance from you, etc.

I check mix downs via our mono Apple HomePod, through our "living room system" (Polk Audio & Yamaha sub) and finally in the Subaru Harman Kardon (good sub). I do give a more casual listen via earbuds and mobile devices.

FWIW since I moved to the Kalis we both feel that if the mixes sound good on them are fine on the other systems mentioned above. They are great monitors and relatively cheap.

Caveat: I FULLY realize great mixes are done with every permutation one can imagine and of course that includes cans.

Bud

PS The vid was interesting but he did spend considerable time explaining why they specifically worked for him, i.e., traveling, how he adapted to the lack of flatness., etc.

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I use headphones quite a bit, with Sonarworks correction software, but I'm trying to use monitors much more, KRK Rokit 5's. In this house I have a decent space with diy acoustic panels (8 total) with 4" of Roxul hung on the front and side walls. My plan was to shift to monitors in a semi-treated room and hopefully improve my mixes.

But whether it's can or monitors, I listen to reference music on both, and in the car, on cheap Bluetooth speakers, etc. I have a tough time getting rid of the mud. But with this last project I may have finally learned what the KRK's sound like and what translates to all of those other systems. Now, if only I spent more time on music....

Scott

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Good video.

More and more I do most of my mixing with headphones.

My target output (bounce) is a 320kbps mp3 I use for gigging.

Headphones allow me to more easily identify and fix the 2 main problems I encounter with BIAB real tracks:

1. Clashing clanging overly bright cymbals.
2. Muddy Bass

Both of these can cause major headaches in some rooms where I gig.

Before the bounce to mp3 I usually run it through a few speaker sets and one or 2 of my gigging rigs.

As they say, Trust but verify.


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At the home studio I use both, but usually headphones .. with the headphones I can better hear any little clicks from edits, etc., so I do the bulk of the recording, editing and basic mixes with those. The headphones I use are pretty 'true' (for me anyway). YMMV
Plus the wife and kid appreciate it. <grin>

At the bigger studio location, we always use monitors unless recording live mic(s).
But again, even there I'll use headphones to check edits, etc.





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It's a vexed and personal topic.
Headphones are cool and a good pair is a wonderful tool but a) they aren't "stereo" (now, binaural recording is a different matter) & b) they create GREAT mixes for headphones.
Regarding headphones versus stereo here's a good guide/intro...


I started recording monitoring through a stereo system. I moved, eventually, to "monitors" and they difference between the previous & the new was amazing and allowed me to get a much better picture of my stereo recording though, with only 41/2" woofers I was ALWAYS guessing bottom end...and headphones don't really help with that - even a nice pair of open back Sennheizers aren't particularly "true". I now have new "monitors" with a 7" woofer and I'm taking time to get to know them before doing any critical "work" but I do now I can actually hear rather than psycho acoustically create in my head, the bottom end. I don't use a sub because I'm still unhappy with the crossover part of that world.

Headphones play an important role though...detail listening...scanning for "noise" etc


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rayc
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Originally Posted By: olemon
I use headphones quite a bit, with Sonarworks correction software, but I'm trying to use monitors much more, KRK Rokit 5's.

Like Scott I love to use Sonarworks with my mixes in both headphones and my powered JBLs. For the speakers they help to flatten the frequency response of the inadequacies of my room. On the headphone side they do have a patch for my Sony MDR headphones too. I've found this to be a great tool for all mixing.




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Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
I started mixing in 1966 but have never used cans except when recording of course. smile


That's my view also....I've never mixed on them.
I just don't find that process to be a critical part of the equation to arrive at a good mix.
(Mine are AKG K240DF)

I have a pair of Tascam S1010m near fields (3") and KRK Rockit 8's.
If it sounds good to me (and any collaborator) on both those mediums then I'm good.
It's more important to me they sound good on monitors/speakers than cans.

As far as recording artifacts that need to be addressed?
I just solo the tracks to find/delete those sneaky annoyances.

Have a great day everyone....

Last edited by chulaivet1966; 10/06/22 09:21 AM.
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Quote:
I don't use a sub because I'm still unhappy with the crossover part of that world.


I understand that.

I use a subwoofer but do not cross it over letting the built-in high cut along with the natural roll-off of my Equator E8vIIs take care of it. Careful placement and getting the polarity right gives me a seamless transition and mix I can trust.

The monitor controller I use lets me sum to mono and switch the sub out without disturbing my mix.


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So.... A follow up.

In my op, I should have said that I use headphones but mostly use my fairly decent ear buds. I found a really nice brand that I like and trust.

After watching the video, I decided to get a set of the Sony MDR 7506 cans. Amazon dropped them off tonight. I've been listening to my songs on them and I am fairly impressed with the range. My other cans are rolled off on the high end, hence the reason I prefer my buds. These Sony's are smooth all the way up without being harsh. I think I'm going to like them. Tomorrow I will test them out in the studio and see if they hold up well in there. I'm sure they will become my go-to for the near future.


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When I first heard a set of 7506s around 1989 or so it was on a well recorded orchestra. I could count the number of basses. Yes, accurate enough for me.

After a couple years of constant use (if you're lucky), the pads will start falling apart. Fortunately, the aftermarket has you covered.

Genuine Sheepskin Leather Earpads (Pair) over Memory Foam

Took a few hours to break these in but I have double the life I got from the originals and now all of my MDR 7506s have a pair.

What I don't mention in my review is that I have only one working hand due to a massive stroke 14 years ago. These pads just aren't that hard to install.



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I haven't owned a pair of MDRs this century. I did enjoy them when I had them but, again, headphones are an important part of recording & mixing though, except when mixing FOR headphones, not the key element. I've had to replace the pads on my Sennheizer pair twice now but they are still wonderful things.


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rayc
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Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
I decided to get a set of the Sony MDR 7506 cans.

Those are the ones I've been rolling with for years. Love them!




Steve

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I'm a gear junkie I suppose, so I have way too much stuff, but I've been using Sony MDR-7506 cans since I got into recording about 10 years ago now. They're lightweight and work well when I record vocals. I've replaced the pads at least twice. I also have a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 ohm which are the cans I mostly use now for mixing/editing.

For general listening, YouTube, iTunes, Soundcloud, the Showcase, I have a pair of AKG K240 Studio semi-open headphones connected to a laptop via a Roland Quad-Capture interface. I originally picked them up for a different perspective on my mixes thinking the semi-open would help avoid the pitfalls of closed back headphones where everything sounds wonderful, full and detailed, but that sort of fell by the wayside.

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i just ordered a pair of Grado prestige headphones.
to compare with akg cans.

the problem as i see it, is, we all obsess over getting good mixes on superb 'monitoring gear ' BUT the wider population is listening on cheap grungy gear//earbuds etc etc.
very few are useing big studio monitors or even auratones used by studios.

the above quandary has haunted me forever.
as to best approach.

i'm super excited to try the Grados cos they come highly recommended.

best

om


New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
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