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Originally Posted By: floyd jane


Another good suggestion.
However...
I find it difficult (quite tedious) to try to find this style of piano in MIDI styles.
(For me) that requires loading in every MIDI style and then auditioning the piano.
I don't know of a way to narrow that search down.
I once tried to do a similar thing for acoustic guitar MIDI tracks (that are included in early styles).
It was FAR too time consuming to continue for long....


I agree. Finding individual MIDI tracks should be as easy as finding individual RTs or Super MIDI Tracks.!


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Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Many of us and PG Music may not be aware of these RealTrack issues. I admit I'm not aware of them.

Can you identify the RealTracks and which issue each RealTrack has?

As an example, have a listen to 1949: Piano, Acoustic, Soloist PopRootsyJohn Ev16. A lot of it is quite good.

But you can hear a stop in front of lot of chords. And once you hear it one BiaB piano track, you hear it on all the piano tracks.

And intermittently, you'll hear the timing of a downbeat is off, like a slight hesitation by the pianist.

Now, in context with other instruments, it sounds fine.

Maybe it's just me, because I've got such a lead foot on the piano's sustain pedal when I play. But MIDI doesn't seem to have this problem.



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Originally Posted By: dcuny
As an example, have a listen to 1949: Piano, Acoustic, Soloist PopRootsyJohn Ev16. A lot of it is quite good.

But you can hear a stop in front of lot of chords. And once you hear it one BiaB piano track, you hear it on all the piano tracks.

And intermittently, you'll hear the timing of a downbeat is off, like a slight hesitation by the pianist.



OK, easy to hear if you solo the piano. Just may need to be hidden in the mix. I am afraid this may be the current "state of the art".


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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Originally Posted By: dcuny
As an example, have a listen to 1949: Piano, Acoustic, Soloist PopRootsyJohn Ev16. A lot of it is quite good.

But you can hear a stop in front of lot of chords. And once you hear it one BiaB piano track, you hear it on all the piano tracks.

And intermittently, you'll hear the timing of a downbeat is off, like a slight hesitation by the pianist.



OK, easy to hear if you solo the piano. Just may need to be hidden in the mix. I am afraid this may be the current "state of the art".



There are A LOT of Piano RealTracks that have a "funny" (odd?) sound.
They seem to be drenched in reverb and often have a "wobble/worble" to them.
Particularly the older one.
They are basically unusable as a "piano only" track (though usually okay in a full production).

SO... MIDI SuperTrack of any new piano RTS is essential (I believe PGMusic is already doing this - including a MIDI SuperTrack for any new piano RTs).
Applying a 3rd party VSTi piano allows for a clean, unprocessed piano sound.
It also makes it possible to use the piano track at a much wider range of tempos.

Adding MIDI SuperTracks for the older existing piano RTs that do not have them would be nice...

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Originally Posted By: floyd jane


SO... MIDI SuperTrack of any new piano RTS is essential (I believe PGMusic is already doing this - including a MIDI SuperTrack for any new piano RTs)…
Really? I must have missed that announcement. That would be very good news.

My understanding was only that piano tracks now have accurate MIDI notation because they were recorded on a digital piano, so the correct notation was captured at the same time that the audio was recorded for a RealTrack. Thus, anyone could capture the playing to be used by a different synth.


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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Originally Posted By: floyd jane


SO... MIDI SuperTrack of any new piano RTS is essential (I believe PGMusic is already doing this - including a MIDI SuperTrack for any new piano RTs)…
Really? I must have missed that announcement. That would be very good news.

My understanding was only that piano tracks now have accurate MIDI notation because they were recorded on a digital piano, so the correct notation was captured at the same time that the audio was recorded for a RealTrack. Thus, anyone could capture the playing to be used by a different synth.


There was no "announcement".
ALL of the new pianos and organ RTs (in 2023) have a corresponding MIDI SuperTrack.
It makes sense that once they (PGMusic) realized that MSTs were a good thing they would have any future recording (of MIDI capable instruments - like pianos/keyboards) - would have the MIDI captured while the performance for the RealTracks occurs to create the MST.
But...that is just an assumption on my part.

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Quote:
ALL of the new pianos and organ RTs (in 2023) have a corresponding MIDI SuperTrack.
It makes sense that once they (PGMusic) realized that MSTs were a good thing they would have any future recording (of MIDI capable instruments - like pianos/keyboards) - would have the MIDI captured while the performance for the RealTracks occurs to create the MST.
But...that is just an assumption on my part.


I can't imagine this is true? While I agree the RTs on Piano and keyboards do have the midi with full velocity and pedal controllers included with the audio, but I don't believe that a separate SMT is also included to replicate the RT/Midi instrument. I looked and the new RTs and new SMTs and I don't see the alignment. But...that is just an assumption on my part.


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Right, this could use clarification. Or a deep dive into past posts. I think I recall some PG staffer saying all the pianos in BIAB had notation now. Maybe I misinterpreted that to mean all, ever, rather than just the new ones. And I don't know if that's even right about the new ones. But I do remember something was said about this.


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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent

I can't imagine this is true? While I agree the RTs on Piano and keyboards do have the midi with full velocity and pedal controllers included with the audio, but I don't believe that a separate SMT is also included to replicate the RT/Midi instrument. I looked and the new RTs and new SMTs and I don't see the alignment. But...that is just an assumption on my part.



Not sure where you are looking, but...

I walked through the new RealTracks
https://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.222newrealtracks.htm

...picking out the Piano and Organ RTs

And then checked the list of MIDI SuperTracks (in the program)...

....and found every one of them in the list.


Other than that, I don't have a clue what you guys are talking about.

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Originally Posted By: floyd jane

Not sure where you are looking, but...

I walked through the new RealTracks
https://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.222newrealtracks.htm

...picking out the Piano and Organ RTs

And then checked the list of MIDI SuperTracks (in the program)...

....and found every one of them in the list.


Here is the list of new 2023 Piano/Keyboard RTs. I count ~ 25.

Then in the "Select Midi Super Tracks Window", I have 218 Piano SMTs (Froms #1796 -# 4430). I see no way to fully compare the titles of the SMTs to the RTs to confirm which are identical? If I just look and the highest number SMTs, assuming these are the newest (2023), then Yes I see Kevin, and Miles and Daniel ... so I guess these could be the same performance files as the RTs, but not sure how to confirm that without listening to each one. Kinda wish the numbering system would have lined this up for identification.

But back to the point which I may have confused... Fact is, I have always (for at least a decade) found the midi provided in the RT Keys to be equivalent in quality to the midi provided in the MSTs. It is easy to drag the midi portion of the RT Keys to my DAW and use them just like MST midi with a VST. Although I never felt they might be identical. That was my only point. Sorry for confusion. So OK, lets ask this question directly to the powers to be. I posted message to developers.


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...and here are the latest MIDI SuperTracks.

You can find each of the above RTs in these lists:

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Piano RTs.JPG (103.67 KB, 152 downloads)
OrganRTs.JPG (54.36 KB, 152 downloads)
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Hi floyd jane,

Excellent suggestions, and that's fantastic that you've put so many great youtube examples in there. That makes it way more likely that we'll be able to add styles that will be close to what you have in mind. I'd love for us to add a lot of new songwriter pianos this year...


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Originally Posted By: Tobin - PG Music Inc.
Hi floyd jane,

Excellent suggestions, and that's fantastic that you've put so many great youtube examples in there. That makes it way more likely that we'll be able to add styles that will be close to what you have in mind. I'd love for us to add a lot of new songwriter pianos this year...


That is encouraging, Tobin....

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Some more...


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+1

And in general - it would be nice that "Force to Simple arrangement" actually minimized embellishment and was a much less busy track - that goes for all Real Tracks.


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I'm late to the party on this one, but I definitely support all of the suggestions that have been put forward.

+1 for Simple, Songwriter Piano


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+1 here as well.


Cheers,
Mike

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+1

I agree!

One other wonderful option that'd arise at that point, would be to have that relaxed intimacy, but then be able to "Jazz Up" the chords played so that a wider palette would be possible...

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Great Tobin!

From your keyboard to god's ears!

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Yep.


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