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#757456 03/11/23 01:04 AM
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Hallo, forum, from Wales UK.

I've been a user of Band in a Box for nearly twenty years, but RealBand now seems a good fit for specific needs in terms of getting the best of a Korg EK-50 keyboard.

I have a choice available of RealBand 2013 and RealBand 2018.

With the EK-50 connected to the computer running RealBand via a printer-type cable and the Korg driver, I was a bit surprised to find RealBand prepared to record not only a Midi input as midi, but that input as audio.

My question is simply this: in that configuration, what is that audio ? Is it actually from the EK-50, or is it some sort of RealBand rendering of the midi stream ?

Many thanks for any insights

Ian Graham

IanGraham #757466 03/11/23 02:54 AM
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If you also have an audio out of the Korg connected to your audio interface it is likely the Korg audio.
RB is sensing audio input from 'somewhere' when it asks this.

Just Keep Take and then Solo the audio it recorded to find out.
There is a setting for this in the Preferences - Audio tab for 'always record audio too if the track is MIDI' .. if you want to turn it off.


Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
rharv #757484 03/11/23 05:49 AM
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Thanks for your response.

No, the USB cable is the only link. That is primarily for midi, and I would have thought, solely for midi.

That's what lead me to ask the second part of my question. I think in general RealBand, like BIAB, has the capability to 'render' a 'song' to audio. Could something like that be what's going on here?

I note your comment about the Preferences. But clarifying the small print is quite important. If it is the EK-50's own sounds that are being recorded, that's a real plus. But I'm not interested in some render using (perhaps?) the Windows synth.

IanGraham #757485 03/11/23 06:19 AM
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Hi Wales (my family once lived there.)

in order for rband users like myself and pg support to respond accurately…
more details from you are needed. for a complete understanding of your rig.


1..does your external korg midi device have audio out ?
i assume it does .and i assume there is a midi setting to RECEIVE midi back from the pc ?
2..in your rb prefs what is your default synth set to ? no you dont have to use the microsoft synth.
you can use a vsti instrument also on each midi trak to override default.
3. have you tried recording midi in rb and seeing if you hear sounds output from korg ? ie..pc midi >>korg midi in ?
this will prolly depend on a korg setting. i dont use your korg. RUN A TEST.
4..please post pics of both your audio driver rb settings and your midi in/out settings .
otherwise it means i have to type a looong thread of options/details.

.

Note the following…

1..on my 2023 version of rb theres an option to record audio too.

2..yesterday i was testing out in rb the new pg synthmaster plug in with a crazy number ofpatches/sounds.
its a hoot. i use a dumb midi kbd..no built in sounds.
i use instrument plug ins loaded in rb...total flexibility.

best

om

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/11/23 06:23 AM.

New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
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I'll get back to you !

IanGraham #757499 03/11/23 09:52 AM
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Hello Ian and welcome to the forum!

If you do not have it already, +++ HERE +++ is a link to the Korg EK-50 keyboard user manual.

The EK-50 has two USB ports. Port A accepts a USB memory stick that can be used for extra storage. Port B passes MIDI data between the EK-50 and a computer. Neither Port A or Port B supports audio over USB.

EK-50 audio would travel from the Output L & R jacks, through an audio interface, into your computer and into RealBand.

So the audio you're hearing is either coming from the MIDI synth associated with RealBand or from the speakers of your EK-50.

Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
Clipboard01.jpg (266.04 KB, 112 downloads)
Partial EK-50 Specifications Audio jacks and MIDI highlighted.

Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK
DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8
Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
Jim Fogle #757558 03/12/23 02:30 AM
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Thanks, Jim. I am up to speed with all that re the EK-50, but thanks for taking the trouble. I think you're probably confirming what I suspect - that if I choose 'record audio' in RealBand, with only the USB connection in play, the sound RealBand is recording is some render it is doing itself.
Thanks
Ian G.

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Thank you for your interest, although I think you are imagining I intend to do more ambitious things in RealBand than is actually the case.
1..does your external korg midi device have audio out ?
The EK-50 has an ear-phone socket, and a separate pair of phono audio out. Neither of these is currently connected to the computer running RealBand.
i assume it does .and i assume there is a midi setting to RECEIVE midi back from the pc ?
yes, there is, and I have used that on occasion. But I don't see how that could impact on simply playing the EK-50 with RealBand 'recording'.
2..in your rb prefs what is your default synth set to ? no you dont have to use the microsoft synth.
you can use a vsti instrument also on each midi trak to override default.
I haven't been in there yet. But I don't envisage going that route anyway. I do know how to record 'real Ek-50 audio' direct into RealBand. I'm just curious to clarify what is going on in the simplest set-up, as I have described.
3. have you tried recording midi in rb and seeing if you hear sounds output from korg ? ie..pc midi >>korg midi in ?
Yes, that works fine, and I will sometimes use that set-up
this will prolly depend on a korg setting. i dont use your korg. RUN A TEST.
4..please post pics of both your audio driver rb settings and your midi in/out settings .
otherwise it means i have to type a looong thread of options/details.
I have lined up a dump, but can't currently see a route to attach it to this message ? I will be interested to see whether, to an expert eye, this casts any light on my basic questions, viz: could RealBand import actual EK-50 audio down the printer-type USB cable, a connection which is primarily intended for MIDI?

Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
Realband audio.png (34.63 KB, 96 downloads)
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IanGraham #757570 03/12/23 04:19 AM
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Ian.

you havent described how you wish to use rb viz your creative needs...even if they are simple as you say.
so its difficult to help.
(ps also need a pic of your midi settings ..midi tab in prefs.)

so how do you wish to use rb ?...a complete picture is needed so erroneous responses arent made…
..record midi only ?
..record vocals ?
..lets say your a guitarist… record guitar ?
..lay a whole song down using lotsa traks and then create a stereo song master.?
etc etc.
(i cant comment on your korgs capabilities…never used one….only you know that.)

do you currently have a seperate usb audio interface ?
if so what is it ?

for example if you wish to record vocs i would use (like moi) a proper usb audio interface with mic preamps. and the interface connects to pc over usb…which is what i do for vocs (and gtr).

just to give a minor taste of how rb can be used...

how i work is gen a bunch of rt's in rb after creating the chord arrange.
then i would lay down guide vocs, and a few midi traks using my dumb midi kbd genning
plug ins loaded in rb and i might use rb to gen a bunch of midi traks n' then test out a bunch of soloists rt's session musicians.

in summary rb can be used in many many different ways…so i ask..how do you want to use rb ?
whats your end objective ?
with that info its easier to help mate n' make suggestions.

best

om




Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/12/23 04:25 AM.

New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
IanGraham #757587 03/12/23 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: IanGraham
Thank you for your interest, although I think you are imagining I intend to do more ambitious things in RealBand than is actually the case.
1..does your external korg midi device have audio out ?
The EK-50 has an ear-phone socket, and a separate pair of phono audio out. Neither of these is currently connected to the computer running RealBand.
i assume it does .and i assume there is a midi setting to RECEIVE midi back from the pc ?
yes, there is, and I have used that on occasion. But I don't see how that could impact on simply playing the EK-50 with RealBand 'recording'.
2..in your rb prefs what is your default synth set to ? no you dont have to use the microsoft synth.
you can use a vsti instrument also on each midi trak to override default.
I haven't been in there yet. But I don't envisage going that route anyway. I do know how to record 'real Ek-50 audio' direct into RealBand. I'm just curious to clarify what is going on in the simplest set-up, as I have described.
3. have you tried recording midi in rb and seeing if you hear sounds output from korg ? ie..pc midi >>korg midi in ?
Yes, that works fine, and I will sometimes use that set-up
this will prolly depend on a korg setting. i dont use your korg. RUN A TEST.
4..please post pics of both your audio driver rb settings and your midi in/out settings .
otherwise it means i have to type a looong thread of options/details.
I have lined up a dump, but can't currently see a route to attach it to this message ? I will be interested to see whether, to an expert eye, this casts any light on my basic questions, viz: could RealBand import actual EK-50 audio down the printer-type USB cable, a connection which is primarily intended for MIDI?


I don't think so, but you COULD record the Audio signal from it using the Audio Oputs of the synth.


Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
IanGraham #757595 03/12/23 08:36 AM
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Quote:
So the audio you're hearing is either coming from the MIDI synth associated with RealBand or from the speakers of your EK-50


Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK
DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8
Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
IanGraham #757680 03/13/23 03:40 AM
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I'm grateful to all of you who have responded to my original post, and, in the style of some other fora, this could now be ticked as 'answered'.
To answer Justanoldmuso briefly:
The EK-50 is in effect a bit of a loss-leader in the Korg range. It offers a large range of sounds, some better than others, but the best very good. It also offers very good control for live play. It is easy to split or not split, and there are three channels on the RH side of the split, or on the unsplit keyboard, where you can set three voices, with easy control of volume and pitch, and solo or layer them on a one-press basis. These set-ups can themselves be saved in sets of four so you can move from one to another again on a one-press basis.
It has a record facility (ie record as midi) which is fine on a single pass, but less good on successive passes. And it is somewhat inflexible, too, re what you can do by way of play-along with such recordings.
So in terms of assembling backing tracks to play live against, I think the more promising options are either to record straight to audio, or record to midi outside the keyboard, and then edit and recombine the elements so recorded. RealBand is a strong candidate for the midi-record stage here, but I would almost certainly do the editing in other software which I already know very well.

Thanks again to all who joined in.

Ian G
Wales UK

IanGraham #757700 03/13/23 05:00 AM
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Quote:
in the style of some other fora, this could now be ticked as 'answered'.


Your initial post has a "Resolved" button on the bottom left side of the post. Marking the thread as resolved may help future users when they search the forum.


Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK
DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8
Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
Jim Fogle #757709 03/13/23 05:34 AM
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Hi Wales.
(ive lived n' worked all over the world but still i remember wales fondly.)

ok i see what you want to do.

just be aware (if not already explored) there are many unique features in rb (and biab)
that i havent seen in any other music production software including very expensive software.

the fact that one has at ones disposal soooo many styles and session musicians re trak generation that could be used in ones songs is very powerful…in both the midi and audio
realms.

i cant delve into various 'tricks' with rb ..cos it would end up pages n' pages…but talking about midi alone…rb has many crafty midi features …not just creation of drum n' instrument midi traks. (see my recent post re synthmaster in the pg tips n' triks forum as but one of lots of examples.).
you dont necessarily have to bang into rb midi data from an external synth device.
(loads of features described in the rb manual n' vids on you tube n' this pg site etc etc)

see the pg user showcase where there is an abundance of songs being done by pg users..
(and you can hear my song examples if you wish via my sig at bottom….and critique if you wish.
eg the song 'grandad' who i miss terribly that used to take me to 'footie' when i was a nipper.
all helped by rb n' biab….maybe you'll hate em…lol…dunno.)


anyhoo…hth.

give my regards to wales.

om


New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
IanGraham #757713 03/13/23 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: IanGraham
in the style of some other fora, this could now be ticked as 'answered'

Really? I'm still wondering what that correct answer is. (Disclaimer: I use a Mac and don't even have RealBand, I'm just following along here for the pure intellectual thrill.)

As best I can follow, the most likely candidate is that the audio RealBand is offering to record is audio it will itself render. But that just seems implausible to me and is AFAIK unconfirmed.

Easy enough to confirm, though!

So: what happens if you try recording? Does audio get recorded? If so, does it sound like your keyboard, or does it sound like a software synth?

I'm guessing you won't get any audio at all, just MIDI.

IanGraham #757764 03/13/23 12:00 PM
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He will get audio; either a blank audio track (it is recorded audio but with no signal being sent to the interface, or possibly background noise).
It will not record any rendered material or his synth via the USB (which on his unit is MIDI only for realtime)

But if he has an interface with any inputs enabled in RB it will record whatever comes into that input as well as the intended MIDI.
If he decides to keep the audio it would be put on the next available track.

As noted previously there is an option to enable/disable this feature.
The original intent was if someone recorded the vocal track of a life time but accidentally recorded it on a MIDI track, RB would salvage the mistake.


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.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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