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Problem Statement:
Intermittent and random problems are the toughest to solve. I'm experiencing intermittent noise, static and crackle when I play any audio. The crackle will last for only a fraction of a second or so and the music will smoothly continue as if nothing happened. The crackle seems to be on top of (external to) the music as opposed to being in the music. The source of the music could be a Studio One track, an MP3 file being played by Windows Media Player or a YouTube video on the web. The crackle may happen only one, two or three times a day but if I happen to be recording my bass or keyboard it will throw me “out of the zone”. The crackle has happened once while I was recording and did not appear in my recording.


Background:
I recently made 3 major changes to my system.
1. I upgraded my i5 machine to an i9
2. BiaB 2023 UltraPak is now installed on an external drive; not on the C: drive
3. I upgraded from Studio One version 5 to version 6


With my older i5 machine I never experienced noise or crackle . . . ever.

Over the past couple weeks I’ve spoken to 2 Dell Tech Support engineers and 1 supervisor (all based in India) and although they are motivated to help me they are not audio engineers and seem baffled. They and I confirmed/installed the latest audio and Tascam drivers, disabled NVIDIA and set the power option to “High Performance” all to no avail.

I also notice a strange symptom that may be related. For no apparent reason, an F: drive Windows explorer window will appear unexpectedly even if BiaB is not running. The only thing on F: is BiaB. If I close this window, it will magically reappear at a later time. It’s as if this window wants to be active all the time despite me shutting it down.

Next Steps:
I’m thinking my next steps are
1. Solicit suggestions from this forum
2. Disconnect the F: drive for a few days to see if this helps
3. Contact Tascam (they have shown lukewarm interest to help on past questions)
4. Contact JBL
5. If required, re-contact Dell Tech Support again


There are smart people in this forum like Mario who solved my “M on the diagonal” bass panning issue so I’m hoping some suggestions will come in for this problem.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

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Check to see if the Tascam has an update. My Presonus equivalent crackles and pops when it wants updating.

...Deb


Last edited by DebMurphy; 04/15/23 07:35 AM.
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As some OSs open a window to a newly-connected external drive, that might point to the physical connection, or possibly a conflict issue with the drive. I'd be tempted perhaps to try it on a different USB port, or do as you say and remove it for a while to see if it changes anything.


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Originally Posted By: DebMurphy
Check to see if the Tascam has an update. My Presonus equivalent crackles and pops when it wants updating.

...Deb


Good idea Deb, this was one of the 1st things I verified.
According to their website, I'm up to date.

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Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
As some OSs open a window to a newly-connected external drive, that might point to the physical connection, or possibly a conflict issue with the drive. I'd be tempted perhaps to try it on a different USB port, or do as you say and remove it for a while to see if it changes anything.

Thanks for the input Gordon.
I have disconnected the F: drive altogether to see if the problem goes away.


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The Dell website has a utility application named the Dell Support Assistant. The application must be downloaded and installed onto your computer. The application scans your computer hardware and installed hardware drivers. The application then offers to install the latest verified version of any hardware drivers that are newer than what is installed on your computer.

Dell has become aggressive with testing and offering new hardware drivers to keep ahead of malware and Trojans. I'm finding motherboard bios and motherboard support chips are updated quite often.

It's possible the issue you're experiencing has an undocumented hardware driver fix.

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Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
The Dell website has a utility application named the Dell Support Assistant. The application must be downloaded and installed onto your computer. The application scans your computer hardware and installed hardware drivers. The application then offers to install the latest verified version of any hardware drivers that are newer than what is installed on your computer.

Dell has become aggressive with testing and offering new hardware drivers to keep ahead of malware and Trojans. I'm finding motherboard bios and motherboard support chips are updated quite often.

It's possible the issue you're experiencing has an undocumented hardware driver fix.

Hey Jim, we are totally on the same page.
I have SupportAssist installed and I have used it to optimize/update my system.

My latest thinking is that the Tascam Interface may not be connected to the most ideal USB port. I have a USB 3.2 Gen 1, a USB 2.0 with Smart Power On, and a couple USB Type Cs. Hopefully it's that simple.

And as you alluded to, a complete virus scan wouldn't hurt.

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Good info so far. My number one idea was already discussed, remove that F:\ drive. Hopefully you're able to hit your PC specs to find out the best USB port speed-wise.

If what you've done so far is not working maybe tweak the buffer size on the interface.




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Your describe the problem well. Check you assignment of audio conversion rate: 44.1 kHz versus 48 kHz audio. You have a mismatch. They have to match on your PC application and on the audio device used.


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"Windows explorer window will appear unexpectedly even if BiaB is not running. The only thing on F: is BiaB."

This likely related to either the faulty drive, which connects / disconnects (unlikely) or to your Power Management settings for USB which puts drive to sleep and then wakes it up, which sparks an idea about your Tascam.

Are your Power Settings set to Maximum Performance?
There is a setting in advanced Power Menu that deals with USB
It is named: USB SELECTIVE SUSPEND SETTING

If it is "enabled" try "disable" option to give full power to USB port, see if it solves at least one of the issues.

P.S. Try a different USB port.



Last edited by Rustyspoon#; 04/15/23 01:47 PM.
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Originally Posted By: sslechta
Good info so far. My number one idea was already discussed, remove that F:\ drive. Hopefully you're able to hit your PC specs to find out the best USB port speed-wise.

If what you've done so far is not working maybe tweak the buffer size on the interface.

Thanks Steve (your mamma named you well) wink

BiaB and the F:drive have been exonerated in this. I disconnected the external drive and the glitches still happen.

Regarding the buffer size, you didn't say which way to tweak. I'm thinking bigger is better. So I tried, 512, 1024 and 2048. Each setting produced the crackle. I'm currently running at 128 . . . and it just glitched. It seems like I'm able to get it to glitch easier now.

Also ran a full virus scan . . . squeaky clean.


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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Your describe the problem well. Check you assignment of audio rate: 44.1 kHz versus 48 kHz audio. You have a mismatch. They have to match on your PC application and on the audio device used.

Thanks Dan, but I'm not fully following your thought.

My sample rate is at 44.1 kHz as reported by my interface software. You can see this in my reply to Deb.

I see no 48 kHz anywhere.

Why do you say I have a mismatch?

What do you mean by my "PC application" and the "audio device"?

If PC application you mean Studio One, I believe Studio One grabs the sample rate from the interface software. And Studio One shows 44.1 kHz.

If PC application you mean Windows Media Player, I can't see how to display it.


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When you describe "...Intermittent and random problems ... experiencing intermittent noise, static and crackle when I play any audio. The crackle will last for only a fraction of a second or so and the music will smoothly continue as if nothing happened." That screams audit conversion rate mismatch.

You tell you have looked everywhere, but have you?

Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper


I see no 48 kHz anywhere.

Why do you say I have a mismatch?

What do you mean by my "PC application" and the "audio device"?

If PC application you mean Studio One, I believe Studio One grabs the sample rate from the interface software. And Studio One shows 44.1 kHz.

If PC application you mean Windows Media Player, I can't see how to display it.


In Win 11 you need to set Studio One to the same sample rate as your Taskam and as your Windows drivers for your Audio Card.

Go to the Win 11 Search and type "Sounds". You will see this. Is you audio card set to 44.1K or 48K?

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PC Settings-->System-->Sound-->Advanced-->More Sound Settings

- Highlight your audio device
- Click Properties
- Go to the advanced tab.

This is the Windows settings that MusicStudent means by "PC application".

EDIT: Dang it Dan!!!! You replied at the same time.... smile


Last edited by sslechta; 04/15/23 02:25 PM.



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Originally Posted By: sslechta

EDIT: Dang it Dan!!!! You replied at the same time.... smile



I would have been quicker, but for all the typos I had to fix. grin


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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
"Windows explorer window will appear unexpectedly even if BiaB is not running. The only thing on F: is BiaB."

This likely related to either the faulty drive, which connects / disconnects (unlikely) or to your Power Management settings for USB which puts drive to sleep and then wakes it up, which sparks an idea about your Tascam.

Are your Power Settings set to Maximum Performance?
There is a setting in advanced Power Menu that deals with USB
It is named: USB SELECTIVE SUSPEND SETTING

If it is "enabled" try "disable" option to give full power to USB port, see if it solves at least one of the issues.

P.S. Try a different USB port.

Hey Rusty, BiaB and Drive F: have been exonerated because I disconnected the Drive F: USB cable at the PC USB port and the glitches still happen. So we can't blame F:

You have a good idea about trying a different port. I inserted my printer USB cable into the USB port that has been connected to the interface. And inserted the interface cable into the USB port that has been feeding the printer. I sent a page to the printer and it printed fine. Then I fired up Studio One and played a song. The song played perfect with no glitch which is hopeful but says very little. It may take some time for the glitch to appear because it's an intermittent issue. Thanks for suggesting this . . . we'll see if it's a permenant solution.


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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
When you describe "...Intermittent and random problems ... experiencing intermittent noise, static and crackle when I play any audio. The crackle will last for only a fraction of a second or so and the music will smoothly continue as if nothing happened." That screams audit conversion rate mismatch.

You tell you have looked everywhere, but have you?

Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper


I see no 48 kHz anywhere.

Why do you say I have a mismatch?

What do you mean by my "PC application" and the "audio device"?

If PC application you mean Studio One, I believe Studio One grabs the sample rate from the interface software. And Studio One shows 44.1 kHz.

If PC application you mean Windows Media Player, I can't see how to display it.


In Win 11 you need to set Studio One to the same sample rate as your Taskam and as your Windows drivers for your Audio Card.

Go to the Win 11 Search and type "Sounds". You will see this. Is you audio card set to 44.1K or 88K?

OK Dan, I get now what you are saying. See below for my settings (44.1 kHz).
And if I hit "Test", I get the chimes thru the monitors.
Sorry for being slow.

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Bass Thumper,
Your "power settings" should be set to Maximum Performance in audio recording computer. With the specs you got, if you don't have that set to Maximum, is like driving a Ferrari at 25MPH on highway.

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Check in two places, Recording AND Playback.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Bass Thumper,
Your "power settings" should be set to Maximum Performance in audio recording computer. With the specs you got, if you don't have that set to Maximum, is like driving a Ferrari at 25MPH on highway.


Is this what you mean by "power settings" ?
If so, the Dell engineer suggested the High Performance setting a few days ago when I showed him the Tascam message shown above in the Setup Diagram.

PS> Your idea of swapping USB ports is still holding steady . . . no glitches so far.

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For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Check in two places, Recording AND Playback.


OK Dan, here is the recording settings. These were default as I never changed them.
But keep in mind, the problem I'm having is with playback, not recording.
Nonetheless, it was good to verify everything is at 44.1 kHz as you said.

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For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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My advice, if it holds steady, ignore everything else until IF it starts acting up again.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
My advice, if it holds steady, ignore everything else until IF it starts acting up again.


Agreed.
I wonder if there is an easy to read reference manual for those of us new to the technical aspects of playback and recording of music on Windows PCs.

My approach to date is keep the default settings until they prove troublesome. Then make the minimum changes necessary to keep your system going. And if it ain't broke . . . don't fix it unless you really know what you're doing.

The funny thing here is that in my old i5 machine, I just plugged and played and for the most part it all worked.

If the "USB swapping" idea works longterm there must be a slight difference between the 2 ports despite the fact that Dell says they are identical. They're both USB 3.2 Gen 1

PS> Just heard a tiny glitch. If it doesn't get worse I can live with it.


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You got to get used to your machine.

"there must be a slight difference between the 2 ports"
There might be HUGE difference in how they are routed, different chips, etc.

"I wonder if there is an easy to read reference manual for those of us new to the technical aspects of playback and recording of music on Windows PCs."

There was a guide, if I remember correctly from Sweetwater, that had all kinds of tweaks for audio computers.
But I would not touch anything if it is working right smile Your computer seems to be a power horse, I don't think it needs any deep tweaking besides "High Performance" that you already have set.

About your audio "glitches", try to narrow it down to physical things. Original cable? Properly grounded AC outlet? Believe it or not, in college we lived in old house with crappy outlets, I would get all kind of noises in my recordings. Then I would move to USB settings that I mentioned in advanced power settings. Try maybe yet another port.

--------
Truth be told. I was a big fan of Tascam... with their US-122 about 20 years back. But when time came to upgrade, nothing was right. Crackle pop thing. So I gave up and switched to more reliable interface.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Then I would move to USB settings that I mentioned in advanced power settings. Try maybe yet another port.

--------
Truth be told. I was a big fan of Tascam... with their US-122 about 20 years back. But when time came to upgrade, nothing was right. Crackle pop thing. So I gave up and switched to more reliable interface.

OK, I finally found that setting. Wow, it's buried down pretty deep.

It was set to Enabled so I changed it to Disabled.

My audio is playing fine with this change but it will take some time to tell if it is a permenant fix.

Thanks, man, you are knowledgable in this area.

I wonder if Dell can remotely run a test on my USB ports. Not ever thinking about this before it seems to me that there are several attributes associated with every USB circuit.
What is the power level?
How clean is that power?
What is the data transfer rate?
How much jitter is on the data stream?
etc.

EDIT: There is crackle and stuttering. No worse than yesterday but it's still bad. frown
Of course we haven't ruled out the JBLs . . . but they are less than 2 years old.

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Last edited by Bass Thumper; 04/15/23 04:57 PM.

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#1 restart your machine, see if if issues go away.

stuttering is unlikely to do with speakers. You can try headphones to rule it out.

One simple thing to try is put your computer is "Airplane mode" (disable network adapter) and see if you get issues. WiFi and Bluetooth sometimes do not play well with audio recording / gear.


Also... There is a popular (and free) piece of software called latencymon (Latency monitor). While it has all kinds of parameters, it will give you a general idea of the most intruding processes. Two of the most common ones are Nvidea drivers and WIFI adapter (cant do much about these), but there might be some software crapware that came with your computer that is persistent enough to cause audio issues.


"I wonder if Dell can remotely run a test on my USB ports." - Don't waste your time. It's a very narrow issue. I doubt Dell people will be able to help with 3rd party hardware.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
#1 restart your machine, see if if issues go away.

stuttering is unlikely to do with speakers. You can try headphones to rule it out.

One simple thing to try is put your computer is "Airplane mode" (disable network adapter) and see if you get issues. WiFi and Bluetooth sometimes do not play well with audio recording / gear.


Also... There is a popular (and free) piece of software called latencymon (Latency monitor). While it has all kinds of parameters, it will give you a general idea of the most intruding processes. Two of the most common ones are Nvidea drivers and WIFI adapter (cant do much about these), but there might be some software crapware that came with your computer that is persistent enough to cause audio issues.


"I wonder if Dell can remotely run a test on my USB ports." - Don't waste your time. It's a very narrow issue. I doubt Dell people will be able to help with 3rd party hardware.

Rusty, you are a literal fountain of ideas.
Regarding machine restarts, I have been doing them on a semi-regular basis during this troubleshooting effort.

Yeah, my "JBL" thought was not my best. I agree it's a long shot.

I put my machine in Airplane Mode and switched the Tascam from a USB 3.2 Gen 1 port to a USB 2.0 with Smart Power port, returned my buffer size back to the default 256 samples, did a re-start, played a song in Studio One and with fingers crossed after one play thru the glitch happened.

My thinking on the USB port is that the 3.2 standard is newer than the Tascam and hence may not be fully compatible. But, no dice. But I wonder if the USB 2.0 with Smart Power is still too advanced for my "ancient" interface. This will be a question for Tascam if I can reach someone on Monday. Maybe it needs dumb power. And I understand that USB 4.0 is coming.

https://www.kingston.com/en/usb-flash-drives/usb-30

I'm going to hold off installing any more 3rd party software. Dell contacted me and wants to talk again. They are willing to supply me with a new machine but I think that is premature. I think there is still more troubleshooting for them, Tascam and me to do. I don't want to recieve another machine and still have this problem.

I'm beginning to think about the Realtek sound card.


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It's a long thread, but have you eliminated a bad USB cable?
Intermittent USB issues can cause all of the symptoms mentioned.
I had this issue when I first got my 18i20, and it was because I used an inferior cable.


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'USB port is that the 3.2 standard is newer than the Tascam and hence may not be fully compatible."
Highly unlikely.


You can press Alt+Ctl+Del, open task manager> Performance and just see if graph "spikes" when glitch happens.

I have seen strange behavior when interface older driver is being updated by a newer driver. The solution I found was to remove the driver all together and install fresh, going with the newest. Sometimes a "factory reset" of the interface (if there is one) solves issues.

If Marty is close by, you can try bribing him with a beer or a cake and ask him to bring his interface, that way you will have a better idea if it's the computer or interface issue.

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Originally Posted By: rharv
It's a long thread, but have you eliminated a bad USB cable?
Intermittent USB issues can cause all of the symptoms mentioned.
I had this issue when I first got my 18i20, and it was because I used an inferior cable.

Yes, this is a long thread. Intermittent problems are often complex.
Good idea, I have not elimitated a bad USB cable, although the cable worked fine in my older machine.

It's a USB Type B and I can cannabilize one from my printer to see if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the idea.

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FWIW - I had a similar Intermittent Crackle and Noise problem with my music computer a year ago. I did a ton of investigations, gave up and took it to a computer store. They had it for three weeks looking for the problem. Finally they happened to stumble on it. While they were testing it the problem happened. It turned out to be an intermittent problem with the power supply. They said that just happened to me at the right place at the right time.

Just thought that I would pass this on.

Intermittent problems, especially those that happen far apart from each other, at very hard to pin point.

PS - they said that every time they tested the power supply all was well.


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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
'USB port is that the 3.2 standard is newer than the Tascam and hence may not be fully compatible."
Highly unlikely.


You can press Alt+Ctl+Del, open task manager> Performance and just see if graph "spikes" when glitch happens.

I have seen strange behavior when interface older driver is being updated by a newer driver. The solution I found was to remove the driver all together and install fresh, going with the newest. Sometimes a "factory reset" of the interface (if there is one) solves issues.

If Marty is close by, you can try bribing him with a beer or a cake and ask him to bring his interface, that way you will have a better idea if it's the computer or interface issue.

More good ideas. I don't see a factory reset on the interface but I can do a Ctrl-Alt-Del and look for spikes with my printer USB cable.

I had an idea on my treadmill this morning. Bypass USB, JBL, XLR and Tascam altogether and use headphones directly. So for the last hour or so that's what I've done. And so far no glitch. With each glitch-free song I'm slowly exonerating the sound card.

One thing is sure . . . there is a root cause(s) at play.


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Originally Posted By: MarioD
FWIW - I had a similar Intermittent Crackle and Noise problem with my music computer a year ago. I did a ton of investigations, gave up and took it to a computer store. They had it for three weeks looking for the problem. Finally they happened to stumble on it. While they were testing it the problem happened. It turned out to be an intermittent problem with the power supply. They said that just happened to me at the right place at the right time.

Just thought that I would pass this on.

Intermittent problems, especially those that happen far apart from each other, at very hard to pin point.

PS - they said that every time they tested the power supply all was well.

Thanks for joining "the party" Mario smile

It very well could be the power supply but so far my "headphone test" is showing no glitches which is exonerating the PS. If this good behaivor continues I think the problem is with either the USB cable, the USB ports, the Tascam or possibly the XLR cables or the JBLs or incompatibility somewhere. I know, the list is long.

Of course as a semi-last resort, I could re-connect my i5 computer and verify that that configuration still works fine. My i5 setup worked perfect last month.


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Once everything is working right, PLEASE mark this thread as "Resolved" using the button in the first post.

This thread is a gold mine of ideas for people experiencing similar issues.


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I just read this thread and made notes as I was reading. Almost everything in my notes has already been suggested, but here's my list:

Run Latency Monitor or DPC Latency Checker
Switch left and right monitors
Lubricate cable ends with DeOxit
Switch out cables one by one to rule out bad cables (since you just moved and reconnected them all)
USB cable not longer than 15'
Sound settings in Windows: make sure it is 44.1 and 16 bit
Check power supply
Sample rates must match in the Windows Audio settings
New computer = new OS, new crapware?
Run Tascam in USB 2 port, not 3

Preliminary Conclusions based on progress so far:
Do the simple checks for bad connections, above, and lubricate all cable ends.
Tell us what happens in the latency checking software
128 is too low a buffer for PLAYBACK on most machines! You can use it for recording, but bump it up to 256 or 512 for playback.




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are any of your cables crossing or too close? i get an intermittent buzz when my speaker cables get close to the router ppower cables

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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I just read this thread and made notes as I was reading. Almost everything in my notes has already been suggested, but here's my list:

Run Latency Monitor or DPC Latency Checker
Switch left and right monitors
Lubricate cable ends with DeOxit
Switch out cables one by one to rule out bad cables (since you just moved and reconnected them all)
USB cable not longer than 15'
Sound settings in Windows: make sure it is 44.1 and 16 bit
Check power supply
Sample rates must match in the Windows Audio settings
New computer = new OS, new crapware?
Run Tascam in USB 2 port, not 3

Preliminary Conclusions based on progress so far:
Do the simple checks for bad connections, above, and lubricate all cable ends.
Tell us what happens in the latency checking software
128 is too low a buffer for PLAYBACK on most machines! You can use it for recording, but bump it up to 256 or 512 for playback.

Thanks Matt,
I haven't had a chance to address or even capture in the Exoneration Table all of yours and others suggestions.
With all the input it's been like drinking from a fire hose (which is a good thing).
But the table below tries to capture the progress made over the past few days.
If nothing else, this thread (and the embedded thinking in it) may be of use to others in the future.

As always, comments about this table are always welcome.

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Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
are any of your cables crossing or too close? i get an intermittent buzz when my speaker cables get close to the router ppower cables

Good suggestion Bob.
The short answer is yes. My "studio" is small and I've got cables wire-tied in neat bundles. I'm relying on the insulation that is designed into the cables for shielding. Absent a special shielding of some kind I see no remedy to this.

Plus, I had no audio glitches with my "old" i5 setup and the cable layout hasn't changed.


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Quote:
It's a USB Type B and I can cannabilize one from my printer to see if that makes a difference.

FWIW, that's how I got into trouble in the first place; trying to use an old cable I had laying around .. a new (quality) 15' USB cable solved all my issues.
I told my best friend to do the same when he upgraded his interface .. get a new quality USB cable at the same time.

Focusrite (for all their good points) only includes a 3' USB cable .. that worked great, but I needed the interface further away and other old cables I had handy introduced the dreaded pops and distortion.
A new cable made my nightmare go away.




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BT.
"my "headphone test" is showing no glitches"

That is very odd. So no funny stuff in headphones connected to Tascam?
Sure, sure?


Best move now would be to test it with i5 machine. If there are no issues, you will eliminate Tascam unit (cable and power supply) out of equation in finding the boogie man.
---------------------------

Something that might relate to you (or might not) . Last time I fought similar issues was because of Nvidea chipset. I have Thinkpad (Lenovo) and they, as Dell are pretty good in maintaining drivers, BUT that specific driver was not up to date on their site. Once I updated that specific driver, things became much more stable. So check if you have Nvidea or other graphics card.

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Originally Posted By: rharv
[quote]
A new cable made my nightmare go away.

Understood. My troubleshooting idea was to swap the cables as a 1st step to see if the problem followed the cable swap, and it did; see item 21.

My next move is to order a new cable.

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For USB 3.x best make them not longer than about 8 feet.


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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
BT.
"my "headphone test" is showing no glitches"

That is very odd. So no funny stuff in headphones connected to Tascam?
Sure, sure?


Best move now would be to test it with i5 machine. If there are no issues, you will eliminate Tascam unit (cable and power supply) out of equation in finding the boogie man.
---------------------------

Something that might relate to you (or might not) . Last time I fought similar issues was because of Nvidea chipset. I have Thinkpad (Lenovo) and they, as Dell are pretty good in maintaining drivers, BUT that specific driver was not up to date on their site. Once I updated that specific driver, things became much more stable. So check if you have Nvidea or other graphics card.


Some new developments. I was able to capture the glitch as you suggested using Task Manager. Normally the CPU utilization ranges from 1 to 2% when playing music. The glitch caused it to spike to 40%.

Now one question is what does this mean?

PS> See item 20 in the Exoneration Table.

PPS> Any interest in starting the Rusty Thumper Institute for Advanced Troubleshooting and Audio Excellence?
We could have branch offices in Paris, Berlin, NY, London and Sydney laugh

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Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper
... Absent a special shielding of some kind I see no remedy to this.
It's actually easy. Make sure no audio cables run parallel to power cables. You can bundle the audio cables, and you can separately bundle the power cables, but if they must be in the same location, make them cross perpendicular to each other. I have to add, though, that this is not likely to be your problem here.


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item #20 on your list - JBL speakers.
They are a "one way" street game, I don't believe they could send signal back to PC causing spike at the time of glitch.

Please confirm that you don't have funny stuff happening in headphones plugged to Tascam. If you don't... that is the strangest piece of the puzzle.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
item #20 on your list - JBL speakers.
They are a "one way" street game, I don't believe they could send signal back to PC causing spike at the time of glitch.

Please confirm that you don't have funny stuff happening in headphones plugged to Tascam. If you don't... that is the strangest piece of the puzzle.

In the latest Exoneration Table dated 4/16/23 Item #20 is "CPU Problem". Be sure to refer to the latest table posted as this is a dynamic spreadsheet and updated as new info is developed.

Item #10 talks about the headphones. So far, I have observed no glitches using headphones plugged into the computer. The Tascam has 2 headphone jacks which I have not yet investigated.


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Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
For USB 3.x best make them not longer than about 8 feet.

I only need about 3 feet.


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"So far, I have observed no glitches using headphones plugged into the computer. The Tascam has 2 headphone jacks which I have not yet investigated."

Two items come to mind:

You should test headphones on Tascam, which would eliminate "speaker" issues if the glitch is heard.

I am just guessing here... You can hear audio from computer headphone jack while Tascam is connected and powered on? Running both Tascam and internal Realtek at the same time, or you are unplugging Tascam to listen from computer headphones jack?

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I noticed your Dell (I assume a model XPS) has an internal sound card, the Realtek. Can you confirm that the audio conversion rate is set at 44.1K on this device also?

Don't want to be a broken record, but I have owned several Dell XPS machines for music making and the potential for mismatch was always possible. Also keep in mind that Windows updates can and will change these setting at times. So I am very familar with cracking audio noise when these are mismatched.

I run Win 11 on my current non-Dell machine with both external MOTU sound device (all things music making) connected to my audio monitors and an internal Realtek sound card to external PC speakers (just for Youtube and SoundCloud and other PC apps). The conversion rate can be different across different device pairs but must match within the same device pair.


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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
I noticed your Dell (I assume a model XPS) has an internal sound card, the Realtek. Can you confirm that the audio conversion rate is set at 44.1K on this device also?

Dan, yes, it is an XPS and yes with a Realtek sound card.

The audio conversion rates (as I understand them) are shown in post# 761832 and post# 761838. I don't know how to give you any other conversion rates.

If this is not what you are asking please advise the specific steps needed to get you what you are asking for and I will follow those steps.


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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
"So far, I have observed no glitches using headphones plugged into the computer. The Tascam has 2 headphone jacks which I have not yet investigated."

Two items come to mind:

You should test headphones on Tascam, which would eliminate "speaker" issues if the glitch is heard.

I am just guessing here... You can hear audio from computer headphone jack while Tascam is connected and powered on? Running both Tascam and internal Realtek at the same time, or you are unplugging Tascam to listen from computer headphones jack?

The plot is thickening and progress is being made.

See Items 10, 11 and 15 for short computer headphone jack tests.

See Items 20 and 21 for Tascam headphone jack tests.

Side Note: As more items are added to the Exoneration Table the font size decreases, hopefully you can screen magnify on your end.

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BT, you didn't say if you are able to hear sound through computer headphone jack while Tascam is plugged and powered on.

To eliminate any sound driver/ hardware routing conflicts between two devices (Realtek and Tascam) I would temperarely disable Realtek from device manager to see if it makes any difference with glitching.
-------

Also...My interface would sometimes misbehave when plugged in "hot". Meaning, plugged to computer, when computer is already running. So what solves for me is turning interface On first and then powering up computer.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
BT, you didn't say if you are able to hear sound through computer headphone jack while Tascam is plugged and powered on. Yes I did, see Item 15.

To eliminate any sound driver/ hardware routing conflicts between two devices (Realtek and Tascam) I would temperarely disable Realtek from device manager to see if it makes any difference with glitching. Hmmm, with my relative lack of computer skills this suggestion makes me a bit nervous. Do you have a simple/safe procedure for doing this? I don't want to make my troubles any worse.
-------

Also...My interface would sometimes misbehave when plugged in "hot". Meaning, plugged to computer, when computer is already running. So what solves for me is turning interface On first and then powering up computer. OK, you prefer booting up the PC last. I'll give that a shot.



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In your Windows search bar, start typing Device Manager, icon should come up.


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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
In your Windows search bar, start typing Device Manager, icon should come up.



OK, I'm learning good things in this effort.
I disabled the Realtek sound card and am now playing a track in Studio One via the Tascam. After 10 or so minutes a glitch happened.

I would never have thought I'd get any sound at all with the Realtek disabled. The Tascam must have its own "sound card" built into it?

And were you able to see Item 15?

--Steve


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Steve, is anything running in the background?

When I record I have to disable everything running in the background because as I add more tracks and/or effects I will get glitches. I disable my Ethernet card, anti-virus, anti-malware, VPN, Nvidia control panel, and cCleaner.

Have you tried disabling everything that runs in the background?

Also have you tried messing with your buffers? When I start recording I have my Audio Interface buffer set at 32 samples. As I add more tracks and/or effects I have to raise that, sometimes up to 256 samples. During mixing I increase it to 2048 samples. If I don't I can get glitches.


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Mario, BT tried Airplane mode.

+1 on "increase it to 2048 samples"
+1 on Nvidea investigation. This one is a well known computer audio recording enemy.

My advice, at this point is to download Latencymon. It is not intrusive and well respected software to pinpoint issues related to Audio recording.

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Looking at the CPU spike...... Go to the Processes tab in Task Manager and sort by the CPU column (largest on top). Next time a glitch happens, the culprit should be at the top of the list.




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Originally Posted By: MarioD
Steve, is anything running in the background?
Short answer is yes.
Longer answer is Web browser, email tool, anti-virus, this forums webpage, my spreadsheet and I'm sure many system apps and processes. But keep in mind, I had all this running on my i5 machine and recording at the same time with no snaps, crackles or pops. This i9 is much more capable.


When I record I have to disable everything running in the background because as I add more tracks and/or effects I will get glitches. I disable my Ethernet card, anti-virus, anti-malware, VPN, Nvidia control panel, and cCleaner.
I'm not recording during this troubleshooting effort, only playback. And the Dell engineer diabled NVIDIA.

Have you tried disabling everything that runs in the background? No, but I could put that on the do list. Based on the evidence captured in the Exoneration Table, I don't think background applications is the root cause. The "arrows" are increasingly pointing to Tascam hardware and/or Tascam software.

Also have you tried messing with your buffers? When I start recording I have my Audio Interface buffer set at 32 samples. As I add more tracks and/or effects I have to raise that, sometimes up to 256 samples. During mixing I increase it to 2048 samples. If I don't I can get glitches. Yes. Buffers has been raised on this thread by Matt Finley and others. See Item 14 in the latest Exoneration Table posted.


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Originally Posted By: sslechta
Looking at the CPU spike...... Go to the Processes tab in Task Manager and sort by the CPU column (largest on top). Next time a glitch happens, the culprit should be at the top of the list.

This could be a very important step. I will attempt.


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For troubleshooting purposes you can also try dumbing down your interface from 24bit to 16bit.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Mario, BT tried Airplane mode. Yes, and I'm still in Airplane Mode.

+1 on "increase it to 2048 samples"
I can certainly make this change but the buffer size has already been exonerated on Item #14.
+1 on Nvidea investigation. This one is a well known computer audio recording enemy.
The Dell engineer disabled NVIDIA

My advice, at this point is to download Latencymon. It is not intrusive and well respected software to pinpoint issues related to Audio recording.
Is this what you are talking about?
https://resplendence.com/latencymon

Have you safely used it?
And you say "audio recording enemy", I haven't experienced recording problems only playback problems.






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Yes, that's the right software. I used it on multiple machines. It is a well known tool. You are not changing any computer configuration with it. It is a diagnostic tool.

Nvidea is known for being unfriendly with audio oriented PCs/interfaces. But if you say Dell tech disabled it, you can disregard, as it seems not to be the root cause.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Yes, that's the right software. I used it on multiple machines. It is a well known tool. You are not changing any computer configuration with it. It is a diagnostic tool.

Nvidea is known for being unfriendly with audio oriented PCs/interfaces. But if you say Dell tech disabled it, you can disregard, as it seems not to be the root cause.


It looks like I have issues with this brand new machine.
I can't find where to disable "CPU Throttling"

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I kinda thought CPU throttling was a good thing as it prevents overheating damage so not something you want to disable. But you should not be seeing any overheating on a new Dell XPS with just playing audio. So not sure what to make of that message.

I likely am going out on a limb here, but, conclusion based on antidotal information and my own individual experience with Dell XPS's .... is there still an option to return the Dell and get a machine built for purpose?


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Quote:
It looks like I have issues with this brand new machine.
I can't find where to disable "CPU Throttling"

Check your post above, #761854. CPU throttling is controlled on those same power settings as your screenshot..... The option is under Processor power management.




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BT,
"I have issues with this brand new machine."
Most likely you don't. It is a setting slapped by MFGs of hardware and some software by default. Which is manually disabled.

Now the trick is to determine which specific item is causing throttling.
It could be setting in BIOS, it could be a Windows setting, it could be one of the settings in DELL software "cooling" management.

We will most likely get to the bottom of this. I had Dell long time ago, so my experience is a bit antiquated. I will look into it when I have a few minutes, meanwhile perhaps somebody who has a Dell can tell where throttling is hiding?

P.S. Dan is not completely correct on overheating. You will not be playing crazy graphics video games or mining crypto. For your purposes it should not be an issue (disabling throttling). I have disabled on all of my machines for the past decade.
Desktop and laptops. Never run into heating issues.



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Yes, in the Windows power settings. Throttling is normally only used on laptops, and even then you don’t want this if your computer is being used for digital audio.


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Apparently, you set all the values to 100% to disable throttling. See if that helps.

Reboot the machine and re-run your LatencyMon test.

P.S. - I would also go to the Dell website to see if your BIOS version is up-to-date.

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Steve,
I suspect it might be a Dell crapware that overrides these. Thinkpads have similar "smart" software "features". I am just not familiar with Dells.

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General line of thinking with latencymon:


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OK, I just want to pause and say a BIG thanks to all those that have commented and thought about this problem. You guys are great, smart and helpful. I've never needed to deal with any of this in the past and it's nice to have a group of friends willing to help. We all think the same in that we let the evidence decide what path we should take. [It's too bad our politicians don't think like we do.]

Thanks also go out to PG Music for hosting such a useful forum. My way of giving back (even if it's feeble) is to feed back what I'm discovering so you and others may somehow benefit in the future.

I have a few things to do based on your great suggestions and if I don't respond to each post it's because it's hard to keep up with the volume.

More specific to this issue; I finally was able to reach a Tascam engineer. And not surprising he says "hey, if the 208i works fine with your Win 11 i5 but not with your Win 11 i9, then the problem is with your i9 even if it's brand new." He has a point especially now that my 1st LatencyMon results have come in showing that there are issues. He also said he recieves calls all the time for "snaps, crackles and pops" and that most of the time it's a sampling frequency problem. The Tascam wants 44.1 kHz but there may be a question about Bit Depth. From what I can see the version of Win 11 I have on the i9 does not support 16 Bit, I don't recall if this is true for the i5. But the Tascam manual says the 208i supports "16/24". This might be a Dell question. And semi-ironically he too pointed me to LatencyMon via his concern of DPC Latency. He sent me the link below from Sweetwater.

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/

Special thanks to RustySpoon for making me aware of this program. And I'm still going to replace the USB cable, do the DeoxIT and other good housekeeping measures. But the foucus now seems to do whatever will make LatencyMon happy.

Finally, a couple years ago when I was quite young with BiaB I suggested that a PDF-document based "How To" set of files be maintained for problem solving puposes to avoid re-inventing the wheel over and over. This thread is quite lengthy with a TON of wisdom and experience embedded in it. This total experience is measured in man-centuries! What a waste if all this effort and wisdom becomes just another thread buried and lost in the cyber ether. When we have finally reached victory the subject of how to eliminate audio noise could be a great subject for such a How-To document. It may turn out to be 5 or more pages long but look how convenient it would be to simply point someone in the future to such a document . . .

OK, thanks again to all.

--Steve


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Windows 11 on your computer most certainly does support 16-bit audio. An early step in troubleshooting is to make sure everything is set to 16-bit and 44.1K sampling rate. You can then experiment with other rates later.


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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Windows 11 on your computer most certainly does support 16-bit audio. An early step in troubleshooting is to make sure everything is set to 16-bit and 44.1K sampling rate. You can then experiment with other rates later.

Matt, the reason I say my setup doesn't support 16 bit is because in the Control Panel/Sound/Playback/Properties/Advanced I don't see 16 bit options; only 24 bit. My snipping tool won't allow me to snip and display the options so I list them below.

24 bit, 44100 Hz
24 bit, 48000 Hz
24 bit, 88200 Hz
24 bit, 96000 Hz
24 bit, 17640 Hz
24 bit, 192000 Hz

Am I missing something here?

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Ok. The 208i is the Tascam interface. It’s the Tascam that doesn’t give you a choice of 16-bit audio, not Windows 11. If you chose the Realtek as a test, you would see this. Based on the poor results using Latency Monitor, and the inability to support 16-bit audio, I think the Tascam is the problem here. When you click the green Test icon, repeatedly, do you hear the crackle?


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Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper
It looks like I have issues with this brand new machine.
I can't find where to disable "CPU Throttling"


I get the very same message on my Win11 system. But I have had no issues with recording or playback on this system.


By the way, my Default Power Settings is set at "Balanced".

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Yeah, I guess CPU issues were a wild goose chase on my part, Dan. It apparently talks that text on all runs. My test attached.....

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Steve what is your Power Plan set at? Balanced?


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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Ok. The 208i is the Tascam interface. It’s the Tascam that doesn’t give you a choice of 16-bit audio, not Windows 11. If you chose the Realtek as a test, you would see this. Based on the poor results using Latency Monitor, and the inability to support 16-bit audio, I think the Tascam is the problem here. When you click the green Test icon, repeatedly, do you hear the crackle?

Ahhh, I'm learning things left and right. I assumed that Windows was preventing a 16 bit choice. You're right, below is a snippet from the Tascam owners manual showing 24. Somewhere I remember reading the Tascam supports "16/24" for what that's worth.

When I click the Test button I get a short chime lasting about about a second or 2. Sometimes it's a clean chime somtimes I can detect a faint crackle. The crackle when playing music is much more pronounced.

But if Windows supports 24 and the Tascam supports 24, theoretically there should be no problem. Especially since the Tascam worked fine for years on the Win 11 i5.

And of course I still have the LatencyMon errors that I have yet to address.

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Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper
And of course I still have the LatencyMon errors that I have yet to address.


That may be Non Sequitur based upon the most recent reported findings above. grin


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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Steve what is your Power Plan set at? Balanced?

You probably meant the other Steve but mine's set on High Performance.




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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
For troubleshooting purposes you can also try dumbing down your interface from 24bit to 16bit.

As you can see from my reply to Matt. I can't dumb it down to 16.

Also, the Dell engineer sent a follow-up email and we have scheduled a call for later today.
If anyone has a good question for him please let me know and I will ask it.


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Originally Posted By: sslechta
Yeah, I guess CPU issues were a wild goose chase on my part, Dan. It apparently talks that text on all runs. My test attached.....

Hmmmm, this is disappointing.
Are we saying that LatenctMon can't be trusted because it gives meaningless errors/warnings?

From what I read at the Sweetwater article, it's a useful tool.

Rusty, any thoughts?


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I love the tool for the spec times it lists. I just didn't realize that it put that default text at the top of most runs people do. It's all about the numbers... smile




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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#

P.S. Dan is not completely correct on overheating. You will not be playing crazy graphics video games or mining crypto. For your purposes it should not be an issue (disabling throttling). I have disabled on all of my machines for the past decade.
Desktop and laptops. Never run into heating issues.

You are right. I have no interest in crazy graghics and I'm not a gamer. In another life I needed supercomputer mathematical brute force CPU power (think Cray back in the day) but no longer.

That said, us digital music muscians do have certain computer requirements and needs that exceed those that just want to balance their checkbook. It is this point that I'm trying to communicate to Dell. They are slowly getting it and are willing to work with me which is a good thing.

But I will say that folks here are sharp. The key for this (and any troubleshooting quest) is to ask the right questions.


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Originally Posted By: sslechta
I love the tool for the spec times it lists. I just didn't realize that it put that default text at the top of most runs people do. It's all about the numbers... smile

That's not I would call a glowing over-the-top recommendation for this tool.

Does anyone know of a better tool to address digital audio performance?


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Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
I have disabled on all of my machines for the past decade. Desktop and laptops.

You are right. I have no interest in crazy graghics and I'm not a gamer. In another life I needed supercomputer mathematical brute force CPU power (think Cray back in the day) but no longer.

I've set mine to 100% across the board for years as well. Matt and I have had discussions on those same settings for years now. Since that setting is in power options, I believe the throttling is just used to save power in allowing your CPUs to run slower. So gaming, music, it doesn't really matter. You want it off to keep your CPUs running at their highest rate all the time. If your CPU is constantly changing from slow to fast, you'll get glitches in audio and gaming video as a result. Hence the 100% rate keeps them consistent.




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Originally Posted By: sslechta
Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
I have disabled on all of my machines for the past decade. Desktop and laptops.

You are right. I have no interest in crazy graghics and I'm not a gamer. In another life I needed supercomputer mathematical brute force CPU power (think Cray back in the day) but no longer.

I've set mine to 100% across the board for years as well. Matt and I have had discussions on those same settings for years now. Since that setting is in power options, I believe the throttling is just used to save power in allowing your CPUs to run slower. So gaming, music, it doesn't really matter. You want it off to keep your CPUs running at their highest rate all the time. If your CPU is constantly changing from slow to fast, you'll get glitches in audio and gaming video as a result. Hence the 100% rate keeps them consistent.

Hmmm, this is bringing back a memory. I seem to remember that when Matt upgraded he was talking about preventing overclocking. My general knowledge from what I've read over the years agrees with this. Fast forward a month or so ago when I was speccing out this machine. I had a Dell sales girl on the phone and I asked her if overclocking would be prevented. She said as a standard practice overclocking is disabled and should be disabled on my machine.


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Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper
Does anyone know of a better tool to address digital audio performance?


Number of Grammy nominations. grin


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Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper
Hmmm, this is bringing back a memory. I seem to remember that when Matt upgraded he was talking about preventing overclocking. My general knowledge from what I've read over the years agrees with this. Fast forward a month or so ago when I was speccing out this machine. I had a Dell sales girl on the phone and I asked her if overclocking would be prevented. She said as a standard practice overclocking is disabled and should be disabled on my machine.

Overclocking and this setting I referenced are not the same thing. Overclocking would be if you cause your CPUs to run higher than 100%. Setting them to 100% just keeps them running steady.




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I think you are closing in on it. You must solve the problems showing up in Latency Monitor. If you hear the crackle at all when using that Test button, you have no hope of getting glitch-free audio.

Latency Monitor is a great diagnostic tool but it doesn’t give you much help in fixing bad results. For that reason, I still recommend the free DPC Latency Checker. It has a lot of tips! One caution: it has not been updated, so the readings you get in Windows 10 or 11 look way too high. Ignore that. The ‘new’ baseline is 1000. A perfectly tuned win 10 or 11 PC will read around 1050 to 1100, in the yellow. Using that as the new zero, track down the cause of the spikes. DPC runs and you see the spikes occurring. If, say, a spike appears every 35 seconds, or whenever you move your wireless mouse, you can start to track it down.

You most likely have one of three culprits: WiFi nearby, a wireless mouse, or some program that starts up with the computer and runs in the background. That could be all kinds of things, so you first go to startup programs and disable them one by one, reboot, and test. If that doesn’t do it, look for Services running that are not by Microsoft and kill those one by one and test. DPC can run throughout and you see the results within a minute. And kill Cortana too, just because.


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This is a whole new computer, right? Not a new motherboard, CPU and RAM upgrade in an old computer? How many watts is the power supply?


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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
This is a whole new computer, right? Not a new motherboard, CPU and RAM upgrade in an old computer? How many watts is the power supply?

This is a brand new Dell XPS 8950 i9 computer, not a partial upgrade in any way.
I don't believe the size of the power supply is communicated to the OS, if it is I don't know where to find it and I don't want to open the case. Doing so may void the warranty.

The Dell "engineer" called and he was a different guy than before and not technical in the least. He was unable to understand the X-Y CPU plot that I shared here so I cordially cut off the call and asked that the original guy call me. I can't waste my time talking to sales people when I need an engineer. This guy also said that they want to ship me a new/different computer to which I said that is premature.

Thanks for the list of suggestions in your previous post. I think next I'm going to investigate the power options that Steve suggested I look at.

EDIT: I'm not giving up on LatencyMon by any means. It may be an imperfect tool but all tools are. Plus there seems to be a treasure trove of info in it beyond the main tab. We have Stat, Processes, Drivers and CPUs tabs. There must be valueable info on these tabs if we can figure out how to interpret and use it.

Last edited by Bass Thumper; 04/18/23 08:13 AM.

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BT,
One more simple thing you can try.

Type "startup" in search bar Enter
You will get a list of what programs (not individual processes) starting when you start your PC. Make a print screen for your records to revert later. Disable all (or most). Restart and try to see if the glitch is there.

While "pretty" apps installed by manufacturer that "help" your computer might seem convenient, many of them are written poorly and do more harm than good.

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Originally Posted By: sslechta
Quote:
It looks like I have issues with this brand new machine.
I can't find where to disable "CPU Throttling"

Check your post above, #761854. CPU throttling is controlled on those same power settings as your screenshot..... The option is under Processor power management.

Here is a screen shot of my Processor Power Management settings in the Control Panel.
I have not made any changes, these came as default with the machine.
So all glitches and troubleshooting steps to-date have occurred with these settings.

Since the Minimum and the Maximum are set to 100% this tells me that CPU throttling is disabled but LatencyMon is suggesting I disable CPU throttling in the Control Panel; it's already disabled.

LatencyMon is also suggesting to disable CPU throttling in the BIOS setup.
And if "CPU throttling in the BIOS setup" = "Overclocking is disabled" then I think all CPU throttling is disabled on this machine.

Does this logic make sense?


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BT,
I have a feeling it might be Speedstep (throttling) in your case.

Before attempting it, try disabling startup programs to see if it makes a difference. If not, see attached. This is a BIOS setting. I believe you get there by pressing F2 at startup in Dells.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
BT,
One more simple thing you can try.

Type "startup" in search bar Enter
You will get a list of what programs (not individual processes) starting when you start your PC. Make a print screen for your records to revert later. Disable all (or most). Restart and try to see if the glitch is there.

While "pretty" apps installed by manufacturer that "help" your computer might seem convenient, many of them are written poorly and do more harm than good.

Here you go boss,
Only 5 are listed as "On".
I'm comfortable turning off the 2 Brother apps, Brother is my printer.
The others I'm not that sure.

EDIT: I turned off the 2 Brother apps, did a re-boot, launched Studio One, played a track, and got a glitch after only 2 minutes. I then printed a page to verify my printer still works and it does. So I think I'll keep them turned off.

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Last edited by Bass Thumper; 04/18/23 09:43 AM.

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Disabling Speedstep, usually makes significant difference in computer performance. I didn't want to suggest it earlier as was not sure if you are comfortable doing that.

However, with four pages in this thread and all the things you tried.... I feel confident you can do this. Unfortunately Dell will be unlikely to assist you with this one by remote connect. Take a deep breath and do it! smile

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Realtek HD and Waves is for your built-in motherboard audio. You can try turning those off if you never use your onboard audio. You can always turn those back on if you have issues.

"presage_wcf_service_system_tray" really has me concerned as suspicious. When I googled it, it only came up with results on removing it. So I'm not sure if it's supposed to even be on there.

EDIT: Seeing some hits that Presage may be an app to predict next words. If you're not sure what it is, disable it. Check Programs and Features and see if it's an installed app.

Last edited by sslechta; 04/18/23 09:43 AM.



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Originally Posted By: sslechta
Realtek HD and Waves is for your built-in motherboard audio. You can try turning those off if you never use your onboard audio. You can always turn those back on if you have issues.

"presage_wcf_service_system_tray" really has me concerned as suspicious. When I googled it, it only came up with results on removing it. So I'm not sure if it's supposed to even be on there.

EDIT: Seeing some hits that Presage may be an app to predict next words. If you're not sure what it is, disable it. Check Programs and Features and see if it's an installed app.

For a minute I thought we had victory.
I was comfortable turning both the Realtek and the presage apps off, so that's what I did followed by a re-boot. And after 15 minutes of play time, no glitch. For those following this thread, that is hopefull.

But then at around t=16 minutes a glitch happened. I let it continue and around t=30 minutes another glitch. frown


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How about Youtube audio or other non StudioOne audio, does it ever glitch? Do you play that audio only through the Tascam to your audio monitors or do you have a set of PC speakers setup with the Realtek card? Some thing to think about if you don't have enough to do.


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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
How about Youtube audio or other non StudioOne audio, does it ever glitch? Do you play that audio only through the Tascam to your audio monitors or do you have a set of PC speakers setup with the Realtek card? Some thing to think about if you don't have enough to do.

As a rule, unless I'm troubleshooting, all my audio flows thru the Tascam, sometimes I'll use headphones plugged into the Tascam, most of the time I use the JBLs. The glitch has happened with non-Studio One audio sources but I haven't verified that recently, I probably should.

Last night I showed the Dell engineer LatencyMon running real-time; he was unfamiliar with it and took note of the messages regarding BIOS. He then uninstalled Realtek, NVDIA and the Tascam drivers, then reinstalled them. Then he uninstalled the BIOS and re-installed it. The 1st thing that we did when the system booted up was to launch LatencyMon. When the same BIOS warning appeared I could tell he was skeptical of this tool. Before ending the call he said if the problem persists we can swap you a new machine or call back and we can do a complete Windows 11 refresh.

After hanging up I fired up Studio One and 15 minutes later, the glitch happened.

I think my next moves until I get resolution are
1. Plug the Tascam into yet another USB port
2. Run just one JBL at a time to see if the problem is cleared on L or R
3. Disable "Speedstep"
4. Have Dell do a Windows refresh
5. "Unplug" the i9 and get my i5 running to confirm the problem still does not exist in the i5 setup
6. Purchase a new Interface
7. Have Dell swap me a new i9

My new USB cable for the Tascam and the DeoxIT have yet to arrive.

Of course, any other suggestions are welcome.

Last edited by Bass Thumper; 04/19/23 02:40 AM.

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Consider disabling speedstep.
A much simpler step, than yesterday's Dell rep saga. Speedstep = throthling.

By now, in many ways, you know more about audio interface troubleshooting than most of these Dell reps. Save your time smile

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Consider disabling speedstep.
A much simpler step, than yesterday's Dell rep saga. Speedstep = throthling.

By now, in many ways, you know more about audio interface troubleshooting than most of these Dell reps. Save your time smile

OK, I'm a bit nervous interrupting the boot sequence, but at this point I have little to lose.

I updated my laundry list above to include this.

What F key do I hit to do the interruption and then where in (I'm assuming a table of some sort) do I find Speedstep?


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Tap F2 several times on boot of the PC to get into BIOS. The menus in there aren't too complex. Just navigate through BIOS until you find the setting.




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Originally Posted By: sslechta
Tap F2 several times on boot of the PC to get into BIOS. The menus in there aren't too complex. Just navigate through BIOS until you find the setting.

Are you aware of how to monitor/record CPU core temperature?

From what I am learning
Disabling Speedstep = Disabling CPU Throttling = Higher CPU Clock Speeds = Higher Temps = Lower System Reliability


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A I mentioned earlier, you are not playing intense games or mining crypto. Personally I never had issue disabling that feature. I have it disabled on all of my machines.... for years.
It is not that your computer can't handle the CPU power with it being enabled, but the actual process of switching to lower speed (by throttling) can be a very likely cause of undesirable behavior (clicks, pops)

You are not prevented in enabling it back if you decide to.

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I alluded to this, and the only way to rule out all the rest of the hardware and software is to try another interface. I believe from all I have read here that the Tascam, with its fixed rate and drivers, is the prime suspect here.

Every so often, a vendor will discover some incompatibility with a chipset. We all go crazy diagnosing the problem because I might have the very same system as you and mine works. It might just be you need a firmware update, or your production run has bad capacitors.

It’s easy enough to try a different vendor like an inexpensive Scarlett and be sure.


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Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper
Are you aware of how to monitor/record CPU core temperature?

In my case, I just monitor the graphics card temperature from Task Manager by going to the Performance tab and looking at the GPU temp. The GPU is close enough to the CPU to me to get a rough temp idea without having to install an external app. If I see GPU temp go up, I turn on the GPU fans which cool the whole machine.

If you want to have an app that is a monitor specifically for CPU temps, try CORE TEMP.

I've not used it but I have downloaded many utilities in the past from CNET without issue.

P.S. - The GPU was at a low temp on the screenshot since I did have the fans on at the time. It can get up to 70-80 degrees C without the fans during minimal PC usage.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
A I mentioned earlier, you are not playing intense games or mining crypto. Personally I never had issue disabling that feature. I have it disabled on all of my machines.... for years.
It is not that your computer can't handle the CPU power with it being enabled, but the actual process of switching to lower speed (by throttling) can be a very likely cause of undesirable behavior (clicks, pops)

You are not prevented in enabling it back if you decide to.


I think what we are now theorizing (and it's still only a theory) is that the Tascam is not compatible with a throttled Win 11 i9 machine. So one question is what interfaces are compatible with a throttled Win 11 i9?

I get what you are saying and I have to proceed with caution. Destroying a $2000 machine in the name of fixing an issue with a $400 interface doesn't make economic sense. So I need to research this more. I don't think you understand all the technical details of my cooling system. And I certainly don't understand your system at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for yours and everyone elses suggestions. But I'm at a point now where I need to pull the camera back and zoom out for the bigger picture. I don't want to "throw out the baby with the bath water". And there is still some low hanging, safe fruit yet to plucked off the tree.

Here are just a few questions to help get my arms around what you are saying.

Are you running an unthrottled 12th Gen Intel i9-12900K 3.20 GHz processor?
If so, beyond your DAW how many other programs are you multi-tasking?
Do you have liquid cooling or other enhanced cooling system? If no, what cooling do you have?
How many months have you been running a problem-free unthrottled i9?


Dell continues to follow up and wants to resolve this as much as I do. I give them credit for that. When I talk to them next I'll raise the Speedstep question.

Another option I have is to have Dell replace my i9 with an i7 if that is likely to solve the problem while maintaining system reliability.


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Main machine. Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8850H CPU @ 2.60GHz 6 cores. ThinkPad Extreme X1.
Running unthrottled for 4 years almost 24/7. Keep in mind, this is a laptop smile I am not worried.
I have done this with several computers in the past years, never had issues.


Of course what you do is your call.

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We're kinda going off the deep end on CPU stuff. Disabling Speedstep is the way I roll too on PC AND LAPTOPS where I have the setting.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Intel's website:
Tuning Intel SpeedStep® Technology

Tuning Intel SpeedStep® Technology to Default Configuration
Disabling/Enabling Intel SpeedStep® Technology

Intel SpeedStep® Technology allows varying core frequency through performance state (P-state) transitions to reduce power. For 12th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors - Intel SpeedStep® Technology should be enabled to ensure that this technology does not cause unnecessary increases in power consumption. For other supported platforms - Intel SpeedStep® Technology should be disabled to avoid decreases in CPU frequency and delays in real-time pipeline execution.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please do not take offense but using the term throttling/unthrottling in regards to speedstep is incorrect. Like previous discussions in this thread on setting power options in Windows, turning this off simply leaves the CPU at full performance, power consumption will be constant and typically there's no need to worry about overheating your machine by disabling speedstep. It is made to handle this. The only reason you would want speedstep on is if you're trying to save power (watts) on your machine's electricity usage. That's it.




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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I alluded to this, and the only way to rule out all the rest of the hardware and software is to try another interface. I believe from all I have read here that the Tascam, with its fixed rate and drivers, is the prime suspect here.

Every so often, a vendor will discover some incompatibility with a chipset. We all go crazy diagnosing the problem because I might have the very same system as you and mine works. It might just be you need a firmware update, or your production run has bad capacitors.

It’s easy enough to try a different vendor like an inexpensive Scarlett and be sure.


I'm slowly reaching your conclusion. Two questions.
1. Is anyone using a Scarlett Interface with Win 11 and an i9 CPU? If so, care to share the model number? And do you have Speedstep disabled?

2. I built this diagram today to help get my arms around the components involved. Does anyone have a diagram with slightly more detail?

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Last edited by Bass Thumper; 04/19/23 08:56 AM.

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Just a quick sanity check for me. Is this the Tascam Unit you own?

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And, in that image Dan just posted, there's a Word Clock in and out, and an optical connection. Are you using either of those?


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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Just a quick sanity check for me. Is this the Tascam Unit you own?


Yes, that's the 208i that a retired college professor who could shred a mean guitar suggested I buy, so I did. This was a few months before the pandemic.


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BT,
It seems the Tascam you own is a good (and fairly expensive) unit. If it was me, I would try a bit more.

Drivers for it are not too old, and knowing it was working just recently on other machine...

Your Dell is under warranty, I seriously doubt that disabling Speedstep will annul it smile

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I will add is there someone near you that can come over with different brand of audio interface? If so use it to see if you get glitches.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
And, in that image Dan just posted, there's a Word Clock in and out, and an optical connection. Are you using either of those?

No.
I've never used Word or optical; always Internal.
And from what I'm gathering, it is the Tascam that governs the clock, not Windows.

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I will add to Mario comment... If the test unit is a "smaller" interface, it might be completely different game.

I have a small USB bus powered interface that works on laptop perfectly without external power plugged to it and laptop running on battery.

My larger, recording interface, while also advertised to "work" powered by USB, gives me all kind of glitches under moderate load, unless both, the unit itself and laptop plugged in.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#

I will add to Mario comment... If the test unit is a "smaller" interface, it might be completely different game.

I have a small USB bus powered interface that works on laptop perfectly without external power plugged to it and laptop running on battery.

My larger, recording interface, while also advertised to "work" powered by USB, gives me all kind of glitches under moderate load, unless both, the unit itself and laptop plugged in.

Since buying this Interface, I have been exclusively connected to "Monitor 1 and 2" on the back panel.

Today, for grins, I connected to Outputs 3 & 4 and still get the glitch.

I'm thinking that either
1. Speedstep is the culprit and/or
2. The Tascam can't handle the newer technology of the i9 machine.

Generally speaking most failures be they mechanical, electrical, optical, software, human organizational or even biological happen at the juncture of 2 or more entities coming together and trying to interact. Common arthritis (at a juncture or joint) is an example. In this case it would be the i9/Tascam juncture.

Thinking back to what the Tascam engineer said about the unit running fine on Win 11 (which I know from my i5 experience) what he didn't say is that he has expeience running on a Win 11 i9 machine. Which is why I asked if anybody has success with i9s and audio interfaces.

If I didn't mention this before, absent the periodic crackles and noise, the audio quality is fine.


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Matt has a Win 11 i9 machine. But there can't be any serious issue or the industry would be screaming.

By the way, your Tascam is not what I was thinking. This should be doing the job for you.


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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley


For that reason, I still recommend the free DPC Latency Checker. It has a lot of tips! One caution: it has not been updated, so the readings you get in Windows 10 or 11 look way too high. Ignore that. The ‘new’ baseline is 1000. A perfectly tuned win 10 or 11 PC will read around 1050 to 1100, in the yellow. Using that as the new zero, track down the cause of the spikes. DPC runs and you see the spikes occurring. If, say, a spike appears every 35 seconds, or whenever you move your wireless mouse, you can start to track it down.

You most likely have one of three culprits: WiFi nearby, a wireless mouse, or some program that starts up with the computer and runs in the background. That could be all kinds of things, so you first go to startup programs and disable them one by one, reboot, and test. If that doesn’t do it, look for Services running that are not by Microsoft and kill those one by one and test. DPC can run throughout and you see the results within a minute. And kill Cortana too, just because.

Do you have a website for DPC Latency Checker?


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*Speedstep is far less intrusive and easily revertible than going after Registry edits.

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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent



FYI - Here is a screenshot of the app run on my machine.

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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Originally Posted By: MusicStudent



FYI - Here is a screenshot of the app run on my machine.


Thanks Dan,

I had another over-seas call with Dell last night. I shared with the technician the research that we all have done and the diagrams I have produced. I mentioned Speedstep to him and he was unaware of this setting and what it does. So I shared a web article on the subject with him which he read. He consulted with his colleagues and said OK, let's disable it. I asked him about any system reliability hit I might experience and he said my reliability might be decreased 1 or 2%. [Of course I took that with a grain of salt coming from a guy that 5 minutes earlier had not even heard of Speedstep.] Clearly we are now in a realm that the Dell tech support people have little/no experience. But I achieved my goal of having them disable it rather than me which might have voided my warranty.

In any event, he disabled it and I haven't yet had time to play music and listen for glitches.

He plans to follow up with me again and has agreed to re-install Windows if the problem is not fixed. And if that doesn't work he will swap me a new machine.

We will see . . .


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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
FYI - Here is a screenshot of the app run on my machine.

Nice Dan, I have this on my machine too and have similar results.

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Untitled.jpg (133.92 KB, 151 downloads)



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Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley


For that reason, I still recommend the free DPC Latency Checker. It has a lot of tips! One caution: it has not been updated, so the readings you get in Windows 10 or 11 look way too high. Ignore that. The ‘new’ baseline is 1000. A perfectly tuned win 10 or 11 PC will read around 1050 to 1100, in the yellow. Using that as the new zero, track down the cause of the spikes. DPC runs and you see the spikes occurring. If, say, a spike appears every 35 seconds, or whenever you move your wireless mouse, you can start to track it down.

You most likely have one of three culprits: WiFi nearby, a wireless mouse, or some program that starts up with the computer and runs in the background. That could be all kinds of things, so you first go to startup programs and disable them one by one, reboot, and test. If that doesn’t do it, look for Services running that are not by Microsoft and kill those one by one and test. DPC can run throughout and you see the results within a minute. And kill Cortana too, just because.

Do you have a website for DPC Latency Checker?
it’s quickly found on Google, but here’s one link. https://softfamous.com/dpc-latency-checker/


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Disabling Speedstep did not fix the problem. Two glitches were heard, I captured the 2nd one.

Can anyone suggest a good interface for me to purchase, ideally one that has been validated on an i9 machine?

I don't need anything as capable as my Tascam but I would like at least 2 instrument inputs (for my bass and keyboard) and 2 outputs for monitor left and right. At least one 1/4 inch headphone jack would also be nice.

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BassThumper, do you have a mixer? If so it might be faster and cheaper to (1) enable your i9 computer motherboard's audio interface, (2) run your bass and keyboard audio to the mixer and (3) connect the mixer output to your computer audio in. Use the motherboard audio interface for awhile and discover if it glitches. If it doesn't the issue is not your computer but has something to do with the TASCAM.

I've noticed in all your graphs so far there is a small blip just prior to the big glitch. I don't know what that's telling us but the graph is trying to tell us something.


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....also have you been able to see the culprit on the Processes tab when you sort by CPU?




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BT,
It's like this...

Tascam is asking computer:
-Hey man, give me a six pack of that fine Yuengling.
Computer says:
-My mama said I can only give out 2 at a time....

Two weeks later....

Sexy red Focusrite shows up.
-Hey computer! I am so cool, I have multiple personalities, they even gave me two driver licenses! Give me a six pack of that fine Yuengling!

Computer replies:
-Look dear, I can give you 2 bottles per person. That is what my mama told me. So you get 4 bottles instead of 6.


Two weeks later... level 2 Dell rep shows up.

-Hey computer why you don't want to give more than 2 bottles per these fine characters?
-My mother....
-STOP please. Your mother passed away 25 years away and you inherited this bar. No more playing games and throw that hand written note down the drain.

----------------------------------------------

What you can try... Get a free screen recording software. Open Task Manager>Details
Start playing YouTube or whatever you are playing for testing purposes. Pull task manager to the front so you can see what is happening. Start recording until spike happens. That way you can pinpoint which process is causing that and know if it is Tascam or Dell wasting your time.
What other spectators of the thread think of this idea? I know there is a bunch of "Event recorders". But I think what I offered is more user friendly.


I use this screen recorder paid... They have a free one that can do the job.
https://www.flashbackrecorder.com/express/

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Testing audio while running a screen recorder is a good suggestion, Mischa.

I still would very much like to see what happens with two minutes of the DPC Latency Checker and nothing else running.

Did anyone notice that graph of the CPU spike looks like it coincides exactly with Ethernet activity? Perhaps something is trying to call home. Temporarily shut down your Internet and test again.




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Matt,
One of the things Steve tried is put computer in Airplane mode and glitch was still there. So I think we safely can rule out Bluetooth, Wifi and Ethernet related issues.

OR maybe you are right and some process IS trying to "use" Ethernet, even when it is disabled?



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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Matt,
One of the things Steve tried is put computer in Airplane mode and glitch was still there. So I think we safely can rule out Bluetooth, Wifi and Ethernet related issues.

OR maybe you are right and some process IS trying to "use" Ethernet, even when it is disabled?




Misha, what if he is connected to the Internet via hard wire? Airplane mode is only for wireless connections.
Also if the Ethernet card is not disabled there might be some component trying to call home. I have had this in happen to me in the past.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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Yes, I think you both maybe right.
Even if it is not actually connected with hard wire. It is a simple test to disable it temporarily and run test to rule it out.

*Disable Ethernet adapter

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Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
BassThumper, do you have a mixer? If so it might be faster and cheaper to (1) enable your i9 computer motherboard's audio interface, (2) run your bass and keyboard audio to the mixer and (3) connect the mixer output to your computer audio in. Use the motherboard audio interface for awhile and discover if it glitches. If it doesn't the issue is not your computer but has something to do with the TASCAM.

I've noticed in all your graphs so far there is a small blip just prior to the big glitch. I don't know what that's telling us but the graph is trying to tell us something.


Hmmm, I must say I don't fully understand your idea but I can appreciate that you are an out-of-the-box thinker.

As it happens I do have a small 6 channel mixer that before the pandemic we would get together with friends and jam. Input CH 1 would be my bass and input CH 2 would be a mic for my wife to sing into. The output would be sent to my bass amp. It actually worked pretty good.

Where you lost me is "connect the mixer output to your computer audio in".

And of course if simply buying another interface is a more direct/definitive approach, that may make more sense.

I called GuitarCenter today and asked to talk to the most smartest, geekiest, nerdiest, techno-dude in the shop. So I was connected to Andy who said this screams of a buffer size problem. Of course I told him I ran at 128, 256, 512, 1024 and 2048 samples all of which caused glitches. He had no other suggestions other than to tell me they have a 45 day return policy.

I should be able to hook up a new interface, test/experiment for a week and (if it glitches) get it back to the store with 2 weeks to spare. If it doesn't glitch, I keep the new interface and throw the Tascam in the closet in case a software update comes along in the future.


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I think that's a good plan for the hardware. I also think a few easy tests have been suggested for software.


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BT,
Shiny new interface. Sure.
Can you make us happy, temporarily disable Ethernet adapter, put computer in airplane mode and try to fish for a glitch one more time?


There might be a piece of software that is "sending statistics" or similar that is causing this. You went pretty far. These are peanuts.
(But very well could be the culprit)

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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Originally Posted By: MusicStudent



FYI - Here is a screenshot of the app run on my machine.



Here are my DPC Latency Checker results.
Studio One was open in the background but not playing music.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
BT,
Shiny new interface. Sure.
Can you make us happy, temporarily disable Ethernet adapter, put computer in airplane mode and try to fish for a glitch one more time?


There might be a piece of software that is "sending statistics" or similar that is causing this. You went pretty far. These are peanuts.
(But very well could be the culprit)

Didn't take long to catch this "fish"; less than 2 minutes.
Studio One was playing.

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BT, pulling cable will not solve, I believe temporarily disabling adapter will.

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As far as interface suggestions...

I have personally tested a smaller version of this:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MiniFuse4Wht--arturia-minifuse-4-usb-c-audio-interface-white

It was very stable.... for me.

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Thanks. If it stayed that way for twenty minutes, that’s very good performance and rules out several things. But let it run for awhile and see if you get any red spikes.


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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
BT, pulling cable will not solve, I believe temporarily disabling adapter will.

You didn't explain.
How do I disable the adapter?


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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Thanks. If it stayed that way for twenty minutes, that’s very good performance and rules out several things. But let it run for awhile and see if you get any red spikes.


Once again, the fishing didn't take long.

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LAN! smile

I am on WiFi, but I guess the process for wired is same (if I remember correctly)
Click on connection at lower right corner and just click once on whatever you are connected to. (blue color tile, which would become gray when you click on it to disable)

Fans of the thread, am I right?

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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Thanks. If it stayed that way for twenty minutes, that’s very good performance and rules out several things. But let it run for awhile and see if you get any red spikes.


Now I get the large latency when NO music is playing.

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Quote:
Where you lost me is "connect the mixer output to your computer audio in".


BassThumper, What I'm suggesting is you should be able to send the audio output from the six channel mixer to the onboard audio (Realtek) connector on your computer motherboard. Others have suggested using YouTube as the audio source and the Realtek to send the audio to your headphones or speakers. I'm suggesting the same just using your mixer instead of audio already on the computer.

As a minimum the back side of your computer should have connections for audio in and audio out. Depending on your Dell computer motherboard they should be 3.5 mm color coded connectors similar to a connector you would plug a set of wired headphones to.

What is the model number of your Dell computer? I can download the manual and mark up a photo of the rear panel of your computer.


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Stay on task. You’re going to have to find and fix the cause of the latency spikes. I have the steps in a post above.


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To disable internet I would
Go to Control Panel
Click Network & Sharing
Click Change Adapter settings (which displays all network adapters)

Right click any active one and select Disable
After testing you could simply right-click and Enable to return.

Have you yet eliminated the USB cable?
I'm telling you, as a guy who works with PCs every day, I was surprised that one thing fixed issues that I had been 'fishing' for a week or so with lots of frustration.

I'm not saying it is the answer for sure, but it was a surprise to me when all the issues went away with the new cable.
My problems appeared random like yours and I was convinced it was system related .. but it wasn't in my case.
Just trying to help and you can feel free to blame me if it doesn't work.


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.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Originally Posted By: rharv
To disable internet I would
Go to Control Panel
Click Network & Sharing
Click Change Adapter settings (which displays all network adapters)

Right click any active one and select Disable
After testing you could simply right-click and Enable to return.

Have you yet eliminated the USB cable?
I'm telling you, as a guy who works with PCs every day, I was surprised that one thing fixed issues that I had been 'fishing' for a week or so with lots of frustration.

I'm not saying it is the answer for sure, but it was a surprise to me when all the issues went away with the new cable.
My problems appeared random like yours and I was convinced it was system related .. but it wasn't in my case.
Just trying to help and you can feel free to blame me if it doesn't work.

Thanks of the info rharv.

Regarding the USB cable. The new one still hasn't arrived from Amazon. But when it does it will be immediately installed. And there is never any blame if that idea (or any other) doesn't work. This is a tough nut to crack and I appreciate all ideas.

The DPC Latency Checker seemingly is a good piece of software but the process of hunting down the software responsible for the latency is a painstakingly tedious process. You have to watch the thing as it scrolls by second by second to determine if you have a glitch. Then you guess which software you should disable and repeat the process until the culprit is identified. The next time I talk to Dell I'll ask if they have a more automated diagnostic tool.

In the meantime, if anyone has a contact at Thesycon GmbH please suggest the next update latches/captures the error flag so that you can run it, walk away and return in an hour confident that if an error ocurred you have it captured. Of course, the "holy grail" would be, in addition to capturing the error flag, to tell you the specific sw that caused the error. I would think audio engineers and musicians around the world would find something like that useful.


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If Dell has such a tool, I hope you will be able to share it. As for DPC Latency Checker, it hasn’t been updated to read accurately in Windows 11, so it may be end of life.

As for hunting down the cause, this guide from Sweetwater will give you what you asked for.

Causes of DPC Latency and How to Fix Them

Article #1771015 Updated on Sep 21, 2022 at 1:41 PM

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/causes-of-dpc-latency-and-how-to-fix-them/


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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After much research, trial and error and old fashioned hard work I think I solved this crackle and noise problem.

I want to thank all those in this forum that contributed to the overwhelming flood of ideas and things to try. I also received many ideas from people at Dell and Tascam. This was one tough nut to crack that stumped some very smart people. At each step along the way I tried to manage the troubleshooting process by exploring the lowest hanging and most risk-free fruit.

Someone in this thread mentioned getting rid of the “crapware” and that idea resonated with me so I simply uninstalled the Dell SupportAssist software as a stab in the dark. So far, this seems to have solved the problem. Over the last few days I’ve accumulated approx. 2 hours of crackle-free music. And today I got Dell Tech Support back on the phone and shared my progress; he wasn’t overly surprised and said that their software runs continuously in the background and could be the root cause of the noise. I pointed out that there were several other Dell applications loaded on my machine. We decided to uninstall them all one by one. These were

Dell Digital Delivery Services
Dell SupportAssist OS Recovery Plugin for Dell Updates
Dell SupportAssist Remediation
Dell Update for Windows Universal

In addition to learning a lot about PC technology, I also (re)learned that perseverance can really pay off.

My plan is to observe my system for a few more days and then re-enable Intel Speedstep. For good measure I also plan to install my new USB cable and apply a bit of DeoxIT to the connectors.

I showed the Dell guy LatencyMon and DPC Latency Checker and asked if Dell had any such tools. He said he was unaware of any. This tells me that there are areas of computer technology where we, in this forum, are more sophisticated and advanced than Dell tech support people.

Moral of the story: If you really don’t need a software program, uninstall it. It may be crapware hiding in full sight.

Thanks again to all those that helped.


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For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Don't forget to mark the thread as "Resolved" once you are confident the problem is gone. smile

There is a wealth of troubleshooting tips in this thread.


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Steve,
Fingers crossed.
Telemetry, data usage, location and all those other wonderful spying, pinging, sending data "tools" which are pre installed by default on "reputable" brand machines is not a joke. Especially when resources are being sabotaged.

There are some tools I have tried in the past to stop computer sending out data... One stands out. It was called Shut Up Windows. It got renamed, but should come up in the search. Just make a note of it. Might come handy one day.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Steve,
Fingers crossed.
Telemetry, data usage, location and all those other wonderful spying, pinging, sending data "tools" which are pre installed by default on "reputable" brand machines is not a joke. Especially when resources are being sabotaged.

Very well spoken.

Another Dell disappointment was their inability to explain how their software corrupted my audio signal chain. I specifically pointed them to my diagram shown in post #762527. They couldn't even offer any additional detail to the diagram much less tell me if the CPU, buffer, D to A conversion or something else is being stepped on by their software.

I'm learning that although as a company they may be good at assembling the various components into a working computer system, the people available to me at Dell are simply not able to address the critical technical questions of why and how.

I'm squaring this circle with this analogy. If you want to know why the rocket blew up on the launch pad, you can't just ask the guy on the factory floor; you need to engage with the chief engineer and his people.

I have no doubt that the "factory floor people" at Dell did their level best to help me; they simply are not sufficiently trained to be of much use in solving the problem I posed to them or explaining the why's and how's after I solved/improved the problem for them.


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For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper
I simply uninstalled the Dell SupportAssist software as a stab in the dark. We decided to uninstall them all one by one. These were

Dell Digital Delivery Services
Dell SupportAssist OS Recovery Plugin for Dell Updates
Dell SupportAssist Remediation
Dell Update for Windows Universal


That's freaking awesome!! I feel bad for not saying something on that topic since I'm a Dell guy too. I was troubleshooting a non-audio issue about a month ago and installed SupportAssist to get all my drivers updated and further troubleshooting. Once I was all good I had to end up uninstalling all that same Dell stuff as it was consuming a lot of resources just to run in the background. It was pretty much the same list you posted.

I'm so glad you got it sorted. Nothing like an annoying issue to keep you down. You persisted and got it. smile




Steve

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Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper


Someone in this thread mentioned getting rid of the “crapware” and that idea resonated with me so I simply uninstalled the Dell SupportAssist software as a stab in the dark. So far, this seems to have solved the problem…
New computer = new OS, new crapware?


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I'm glad that you are up and running without any problems. Stuff running in the background can cause a lot of problems for us musicians.

Probably the reason the Dell tech guys didn't know about the cause is because making music with a computer is the smallest common denominator of all computer uses. I have read where the next smallest is photography and it is 4-5 times larger than recording music.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Don't forget to mark the thread as "Resolved" once you are confident the problem is gone. smile

There is a wealth of troubleshooting tips in this thread.

Jim, is there a button to click for Resolved?


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For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Originally Posted By: sslechta
Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper
I simply uninstalled the Dell SupportAssist software as a stab in the dark. We decided to uninstall them all one by one. These were

Dell Digital Delivery Services
Dell SupportAssist OS Recovery Plugin for Dell Updates
Dell SupportAssist Remediation
Dell Update for Windows Universal


That's freaking awesome!! I feel bad for not saying something on that topic since I'm a Dell guy too. I was troubleshooting a non-audio issue about a month ago and installed SupportAssist to get all my drivers updated and further troubleshooting. Once I was all good I had to end up uninstalling all that same Dell stuff as it was consuming a lot of resources just to run in the background. It was pretty much the same list you posted.

I'm so glad you got it sorted. Nothing like an annoying issue to keep you down. You persisted and got it. smile

Thanks Steve,
And no "feeling bad". This was a tough nut to crack (think Brazil nut and your teeth). smile
We're on web page #9 and you offered good suggestions along with many others.

This was an annoying issue but as Jim says, there's good info in this thread that if it doesn't get lost in the ether should help others with similar or even different problems.


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For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper
Jim, is there a button to click for Resolved?

I think that button should show up for you if you go back to the very first post in the thread. It should either be at the top or bottom of that first message.




Steve

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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Originally Posted By: Bass Thumper


Someone in this thread mentioned getting rid of the “crapware” and that idea resonated with me so I simply uninstalled the Dell SupportAssist software as a stab in the dark. So far, this seems to have solved the problem…
New computer = new OS, new crapware?

Yes. Thanks for planting this seed.
I had never heard the term "crapware" before.
It will be in my vocabulary going forward for quite some time.


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BiaB 2024 Windows
For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Mario is absolutely right. Digital audio is a small and highly specialized use for computers. We have to expect to solve our own problems. Remarkably, we usually do. The collective experience just on this forum is quite formidable.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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As far as crapware, it can be difficult to determine what to do. If you build a computer from scratch as I do, you don’t encounter it. Only when you buy from a one-stop vendor like Dell does this come into play. And you can’t just blanket uninstall all their stuff. As an example, they might contract with a manufacturer to make a DVD drive or graphics card that requires a specially modified driver. Or at least, they say that. I only encountered one situation where I absolutely had to use the vendor’s version of a driver. Still, test all your gear after deleting the vendor-supplied drivers.

In order to market that they somehow create unique value, the marketing people want those extra programs added to a pre-assembled computer. For most people it doesn’t matter. For digital audio content producers, it sure does.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Here is how I summarize this situation.

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Getting rid of bloatware and crapware should be your first step in setting up any new computer.


Byron Dickens

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Originally Posted By: Byron Dickens
Getting rid of bloatware and crapware should be your first step in setting up any new computer.
Yes. Or maybe second, after the power settings. But be careful about drivers as I explained.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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As Steve mentioned +++ HERE +++ the "Mark as Resolved" button is in the bottom, left corner of the initial post that creates a thread.

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I'm not sure this issue is ever actually resolved; the problem is just conquered temporarily on your system until another challenge arises. After you get everything working, you will get another computer, upgraded operating system, or [fill in the blank] --- But marking the thread 'Resolved' should assist others who search for help to find the wealth of good suggestions here.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Originally Posted By: MarioD

Probably the reason the Dell tech guys didn't know about the cause is because making music with a computer is the smallest common denominator of all computer uses. I have read where the next smallest is photography and it is 4-5 times larger than recording music.

Hmm, that's an interesting point.
I do know that folk that produce computer-assisted music have certain computer and software needs.

I wonder if there are things that we can do to elevate our concerns to the lager tech community; sort of like a lobby. I was a squeeky wheel with Dell and did all I could do to get Dell decision makers to see the needs we have, including pointing them to this forum thread. At a minimum, the people I worked with got an education from working my issue.


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Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Don't forget to mark the thread as "Resolved" once you are confident the problem is gone. smile

There is a wealth of troubleshooting tips in this thread.

Jim, I marked it Resolved.

If anyone wants to help me push this subject into an e-book/e-booklet send me a PM. We could include tips, diagrams and other useful material.

Condensing this into an organized document would help "future generations"; it sure would have helped me/us.


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