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#766433 05/24/23 03:21 AM
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I was asked to write up a brief summary of my understanding of Model Playing for a guitar course I am attending. If you see anything wrong please hollar.

Modal Playing – A Riddle Wrapped in a Mystery Inside an Enigma.

Different scales evoke different stories. In week 5 we learned the Major and Mixolydian shapes on the fretboard for both these scales.

The Mixolydian is made by flatting the seventh of the corresponding Major Scale. This results in different notes, but more importantly, a different interval sequence between the notes which results in different harmonized chords.

However, there are other scales (Shapes) we play on the guitar which would give us the exact same notes as A Mixolydian?

Mode Harmonized Chords Notes
D Ionian Scale I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii(dim) D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#
E Dorian Scale i, ii, III, IV, v, vi(dim), VII E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D
F# Phrygian Scale i, II, III, iv, v(dim), VI, vii F#, G, A, B, C#, D, E
G Lydian Scale I, II, iii, iv(dim), V, vi, vii G, A, B, C#, D, E, F#
A Mixolydian Scale I, ii, iii(dim), IV, v, vi, VII A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G
B Aeolian Scale i, ii(dim), III, iv, v, VI, VII B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A
C# Locrian Scale i(dim), II, iii, iv, V,VI, vii, C#, D, E, F#, G, A, B

Since all these scales have the same notes, how do we say we are playing any one mode? Is it the order of the notes we play? – NO! Model playing requires selection of harmonized chords which emphasis the root (the one chord) as presented in the Backing Track!

The characters (notes) in each story (scale) have a unique relationship (interval) associated with the main character (the root). The backing track must specify, via the harmonized chords, the root which has a unique relationship (attraction) with each of the characters in the scale.

So if the backing track is A mixolydian, and you know a killer C# Aeolian lick or an F# Phrygian groove, have at it. You will still be speaking Mixolydian.


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DrDan #766440 05/24/23 03:54 AM
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There's a trivial typo at the end of the first line after the list of modes that a spell-checker likely won't see ... Model->Modal

I like the characters & story analogy.

I think the content is correct and a good description. I think I'd have struggled to put it that well.


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DrDan #766446 05/24/23 04:27 AM
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Thanks for review, I will fix that typo.

Here is the 12 week class I am in. We are in Week 6 now. Always fun to work with this guy.

https://www.facebook.com/guitarplayback/


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DrDan #766452 05/24/23 05:15 AM
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I don’t have anything to holler, and I certainly wouldn’t want to
Click to reveal..
hollar
because you did a nice job. And happy birthday.


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DrDan #766453 05/24/23 05:18 AM
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Looks like I need a better spell checker. Thanks Matt.


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DrDan #766523 05/24/23 02:44 PM
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Hi Dan,

That's a great summary.

--Noel


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DrDan #792485 12/29/23 07:37 AM
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"Model playing requires selection of harmonized chords which emphasis the root (the one chord) as presented in the Backing Track!"

Yours is an excellent and accurate summary based on my many years of misunderstanding this concept.

If you can - I would place this sentence in bold and add some more sentences and examples - this is the point I never understood. If you look at the amount of text allocated to this topic - far too much (relatively speaking) is spent on the OTHER scales that have the same notes, and this in my mind is actually deceptive. If the heart of a mode is indeed summed up in the sentence above - and I believe it is (after I've misunderstood the concept for many years), far more text and examples should expand on it.

DrDan #792597 12/29/23 04:21 PM
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Thanks for the feedback Joe. So something more specific in way of an example... how about this.

Example 1 Dorian
First we need a set of chords (i.e., a backing track) which will contains a progression which has only the notes of a specific Dorian Scale. Lets select A (R, 2, b3, 4,5, 6, b7) which includes notes: A, B, C, D, E, F#,G . We could pick the chords.

Am7 (R, b3, 5, b7) containing: A, C, E and G.
D7 (R, 3, 5, b7) containing: D, F#,A, C
GM7 (R, 3, 5, 7) containing : G,B,D, F#
C (R, 3, 5) containing : C, E, G
Em (R, b3, 5) containing: E, G, B

All these chords fit into our A dorian modal progression backing track since all the notes of all the chords come from the A dorian scale. All these chords have a relationship to root note A. So while each individual chord has its own Root which is home for the chord, there is a over riding pull of all these chords to A. A synergistic effect you may say to achieve a sad (due to the dorian b3 (C)), yet jazzy (due to the dorian 6th (F#)) type of feel!

You can make the backing track in BIAB with the chords above and use it to play your instrument over. Or listen to anything by Carlos Santana. Or here you go...

Jazz-A Dorian 105 bpm

Dan


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DrDan #792714 12/30/23 09:31 AM
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Yes - I think that helps a lot - in fact, I would also suggest giving several Dorian progressions and what makes them dorian, emphasizing that the chords which contain the notes that make the mode unique be emphasized more than others.

Now - do modal progressions "resolve" - I suppose they should resolve to the root - which means that usually the first or last chord of a section should be the root chord of the mode...

Is that your understanding ?

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Originally Posted by Joe Videtto2
Yes - I think that helps a lot - in fact, I would also suggest giving several Dorian progressions and what makes them dorian, emphasizing that the chords which contain the notes that make the mode unique be emphasized more than others.
Here in the BIAB forum, I am afraid this would be of interest to only you and I Joe. There are other places where folks need to go to get this info.

Originally Posted by Joe Videtto2
Now - do modal progressions "resolve" - I suppose they should resolve to the root - which means that usually the first or last chord of a section should be the root chord of the mode... Is that your understanding ?
Yes all progressions follow the same "rules" for resolution. Every progression wants to go Home (the root or 1 chord). There can be many ways to get there. But having the progession take you somewhere other than home, and leave you, is not a bad thing at all. In the case of A Dorian the Harmonized scale, in order is:
1) Amin (i)
2) Bmin (ii)
3) C Major (III)
4) D Major (IV)
5) Emin (v)
6) F#dim (vi-dim)
7) G Maj (VII)

So every one knows how a I, V, vi, IV progression from the Major Scale works. Try this same progression with Dorian scale by substituting in the i, v, vi-dim, IV.

disclaimer: still drinking my coffee so you may want to double check me on ALL this... grin


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DrDan #793687 01/04/24 09:16 AM
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This guy seems to concur with me! grin



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DrDan #795349 01/12/24 08:43 PM
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Very Nice!! Best thing I have seen here in a while. Now with just this:

Mode Harmonized Chords Notes

D Ionian Scale I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii(dim) D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#
E Dorian Scale i, ii, III, IV, v, vi(dim), VII E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D
F# Phrygian Scale i, II, III, iv, v(dim), VI, vii F#, G, A, B, C#, D, E
G Lydian Scale I, II, iii, iv(dim), V, vi, vii G, A, B, C#, D, E, F#
A Mixolydian Scale I, ii, iii(dim), IV, v, vi, VII A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G
B Aeolian Scale i, ii(dim), III, iv, v, VI, VII B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A
C# Locrian Scale i(dim), II, iii, iv, V,VI, vii, C#, D, E, F#, G, A, B

And this:

Yes all progressions follow the same "rules" for resolution. Every progression wants to go Home (the root or 1 chord). There can be many ways to get there. But having the progession take you somewhere other than home, and leave you, is not a bad thing at all. In the case of A Dorian the Harmonized scale, in order is:

1) Amin (i)
2) Bmin (ii)
3) C Major (III)
4) D Major (IV)
5) Emin (v)
6) F#dim (vi-dim)
7) G Maj (VII)

I can now write 3,000 new songs in the next week.

Conveniently, having memorized the entire fretboard, which I can both see in my mind and play with my eyes closed, I could do some back backing tracks and play these 3,000 combinations in my sleep blindfolded.

Thanks guys! I guess I can post five songs a day on the forum now like other people!

I finally found something I can use! You are my heroes!

By the way, I would not say there are only a few people on the forum who would get this. There are some people around here who can flat out tear it to pieces when they pick up their instrument. And they also hit record as well. I know because I have heard them.

Also, don’t forget that once you do all of this you also have to go into the “Zone” where it you walk right off the tight rope and begin to defy gravity itself. That is where it all goes down. That is Santana.

But the “Zone”—ah, that is a place very few people find Daniel Son.

Wax on. Wax off.

Hai!

DrDan #795401 01/13/24 05:49 AM
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Great Stuff Dan, thanks for posting, I sure need to learn my modes on guitar, found this as well.

https://www.jazzguitar.be/blog/guitar-modes/


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DrDan #795412 01/13/24 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDan
David, are you making fun of me?

No he is not making fun of you.

All he really said was a mode is a scale that starts and ends on a note other that a major scale's tonic note.

Ducking and running for cover.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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MarioD #795417 01/13/24 08:00 AM
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I am confused.

I do not see the "making fun of" post Mario is referring to, but I genuinely liked this thread a lot, made a document as a resource, and am using it now.

Jeez.

Never mind.

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Apparently Dan deleted his post.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
MarioD #795624 01/14/24 11:34 AM
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This site might make it easier to understand, for folks that are typing stuff into BIAB, given the nature of modal scales.


https://www.pianoscales.org/dorian-harmonizing.html

Say you are trying to set up a C Dorian progression in BIAB.

If you type in III if the key is set to C you will get E, not Eb, so it would actually be a III minor is you are trying to build a transposable template. I am experimenting with Eb and C minor as the key and not getting what I want. Still fiddling...

This may drive people mad.

However, if you just want the charts and notes above, this will explain it, and away you go.

Also, remember A Dorian is "A Minor-ish" but not Not A Minor and does yield exactly the same chord progression as the A Dorian Dan referenced in his example.

Look here:

https://www.musictheoryforguitar.com/guitarscalesminor

Simply studying the two links for these two examples gives a boatload of info of the simple but profound differences between "pop" and "jazz.

Though the two "minor" modes are similar (A Dorian and A Minor), the 6th chord of the A minor Progression is F, and the Dorian 6th is F# dim.

Huge difference. And therein lies the rub.

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