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Other than using BIAB back in the 90s on Atari ST/Falcon, I'm really new to this software. So far my OmniPAK edition has installed and it all comes across as intuitive and easy to work with. I've got it talking to all of my VST2/3 instruments and an external Fantom X (audio input monitored via armed Thru track) via an instance of Bidule as the default synth. It's all working and sounding great so far!

One thing I am starting to anticipate is a need to inject some CC information into MIDI tracks. I.E. Garritan's JABB3 library interprets dynamics this way rather than via traditional 'note velocity'.

Example: Insert CC1 or CC11 on the same tick of each note-on event, at the same value as note-on, or velocity. Such an automated process is desired because it would 'quickly' offer a good 'starting point' from which to later 'fine tune' the dynamics of each note 'if necessary'.

Is there such an ability already built into BIAB? If not, are there compatible scripting tools that can do this sort of thing to bb's song/style files?

Anyone have experiences to share as to how you manage such things? Maybe export tracks into a DAW that can do such things in a couple clicks and then move it back to a BIAB song?

I do use Bidule and so far I have it snoop each key velocity and add the CC into the live MIDI stream, but it's not always as musical as I'd like; plus, it's not all that straight forward to preserve/embed the data into the song itself.

Thanks,
Brian

Last edited by Brian Roland; 11/27/23 11:40 AM.

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Welcome to the Forum.

My short answer is I don't know.

I wrote the guide to using Garritan JABB with BIAB but that was well over a decade ago, and I have not kept up. PG Music made my guide into a FAQ here, somewhere.

A JABB version 2 now? OK.

I encounter the need for sending expression CC info when using one of my sounds, the SWAM instruments, so I understand the question.


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Thanks much for the reply! I'll hunt down your FAQ.

It's an old library but still one of the most expressive and interesting I've yet to find for getting jazz combos and big band orchestra sounds.

So far I'm simply using bidule to inject a CC1 event equal to note-velocity in real time. It's better than nothing but not quite as polished and in balance as I like.

Unfortunately, once I do start drawing in some CC events for frozen bb tracks, they conflict with the 'bidule hack'. Eventually I can build more logic to scale and sort more dynamic issues in real time. How to get it embedded in the songs though? Hmmm

I'll keep exploring and see what I can learn.

Maybe there's a way to put those 'utility' tracks to work, and just move the stuff back and forth between Cubase.

Interested in seeing how others have tackled this.

Last edited by Brian Roland; 11/27/23 11:29 AM.

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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
Welcome to the Forum.
A JABB version 2 now? OK.

Oops, I meant to type JABB3 (will go back and fix it). As far as I know it's at version 3.02 now, and has been for what seems like ages.

I suppose I could tweak out some alternative sfz files for JABB3 and make them work via velocity instead of CC, but the prospect of getting the velocity curves right for all those sample layers makes my head swim with dread. Not a fun or easy thing to knock out in a short time.

Last edited by Brian Roland; 11/27/23 11:41 AM.

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FWIW - When I have to start a song with some CCs I would add a measure or two at the start of the song. I do this in my DAW but if you are recording in BiaB I would add a measure or two at the start of the song and have only the drums playing, much like a count-in. That would give you time set up your CC 1 or CC11.


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I can't find the FAQ right now. It's not coming up in a search, but the search function seems to be limited to 15 years past. I did find a lot written in 2011, and I remember we had used it well before that, so it must have been closer to two decades ago.


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You could use RapidComposerVST inside Biab or you could use ReWireVST that will load into Biab then slave Reaper to it, and Reaper will allow scripting.
You also have the BBPlugin that you can send the midi out to your DAW.

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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
I can't find the FAQ right now. It's not coming up in a search, but the search function seems to be limited to 15 years past. I did find a lot written in 2011, and I remember we had used it well before that, so it must have been closer to two decades ago.
I couldn't find it either.
I think I'll be alright as I get more experience.

Originally Posted by MarioD
FWIW - When I have to start a song with some CCs I would add a measure or two at the start of the song. I do this in my DAW but if you are recording in BiaB I would add a measure or two at the start of the song and have only the drums playing, much like a count-in. That would give you time set up your CC 1 or CC11.
Good tip, thanks. I do have instruments that work better if set up well before a channel makes any sound.

In this case in order to get dynamic changes over phrases I need to send a cc with nearly every single note, on the same midi tick, or one before the note-on event occurs.

With bidule I can 'audition and explore' songs/styles by injecting the desired CCs in real time as a song plays but this can yield a few problems with some songs. I don't get as much control without a lot of extra logic/bidules. When I do start drawing expressive CCs onto the real tracks for things like crescendos, sfz, and so forth, nasty sounding conflicts can pop up.

Originally Posted by musocity
You could use RapidComposerVST inside Biab or you could use ReWireVST that will load into Biab then slave Reaper to it, and Reaper will allow scripting.
You also have the BBPlugin that you can send the midi out to your DAW.

Yeah, I'm slowly exploring such options. Drag and drop straight from BIAB seems to work really well here (both ways). Over in Cubase I can use a logical editor to inject them in a few clicks then drag it back to BIAB. I'll typically either match the expression volume controller with note-on velocity (value 2), or if I want the effect of dynamics getting 'louder' with 'higher notes' and 'softer' with 'lower notes' I might go for note number (value 1) and average it instead. This 'roughs' it in pretty well, so I only need to touch a fraction of the notes with a mouse afterward for the more subtle or precision needs. I can then ride CC7 for things like terraced dynamic changes, or gradual hair-pin changes since that moves everything playing on the channel 'together' and keeps it 'relative to the expression volume' CCs.

I was hoping the styles and style maker itself might have one click options or 'rule sets' to support plugins that need to ride a CC to get dynamic changes. Other perks would be better use of patches that do different things at different 'velocities'. I.E. If key velocity is above 64 start pulling a plunger mute outward, if below 64 start pushing it in tighter.

Second best would be logical editors or scripting tools that can interact directly with tracks loaded into BIAB to quickly rough this stuff in right after generating a style track.

It's pretty common for wind, brass, and string instruments to either ignore key velocity, or use it for something slightly different from volume/dynamics. Have even made a few patches myself over the years in the Fantom/Zenology/HALion that need 'both' a volume CC (actual loudness) and key-velocity (variations in attack/release and/or triggering different sample/synth layers).

A lot of people roll their eyes when they learn I keep reaching for Garritan libraries in 2023. Thing is, when it comes to getting expressive jazzy brass with a ton of mute options, falls, doits, kisses, etc...it's still pretty hard to beat! It's not the easiest library to just pound in notes from an AI's composition and have it sound good, but once you get to know how it all works and arrange with it mind, it can sound very good/convincing/realistic.


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