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I have 9 choruses in my 30 bar song yet when I go to record a MIDI solo the program just stops in the middle of my solo, in some random spot, asks if I want to save the MIDI file. Sometimes it doesn't even make it through the first chorus, other times it will let me go for a few choruses but never makes it through to even 1/2 way through the song. Running the latest version in Windows 11. Any help is appreciated as BIAB is unusable like this.

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Hi L2L.

I've reported this to the PG Music development team, and I've passed on a link to your post.

Here are a few questions whose answers would help the PG Music team.

  • What instrument are you trying to record and is it set to a specific channel?
  • How is your MIDI instrument plugged into BIAB and through what soundcard?
  • Which track are you recording to, and have you tried any other tracks?
  • Are you running Build 1108 (the latest)?


Hopefully Team PG can help.

Regards,
--Noel

Last edited by Noel96; 01/15/24 10:30 PM.

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One issue is the song has too many bars. 30 bars times 9 choruses equals 270 bars. Band-in-a-Box has a maximum bar limit of 256 bars when all the instrument tracks are set for normal time. When an instrument track is set for half, double or triple time the maximum bar limit is less than 256 bars. As a test, try reducing the number of choruses to 8 or 7.


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That's a good point, Jim. I never use multiple choruses so I'm not fully aware of their limitations. I know that it's certainly possible to use "Number of choruses" to create a backing that's longer than 256 bars since only the first chorus is the one that is restricted and the others are repetition of that chorus. I suspect that the 256 bar restriction would certainly be a factor during the recording process, though, because the melody is not linked to just the first chorus and so it is not repeated like a chorus.


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The problem has not been resolved. I am working with support but have made no progress. I am running 2024 Build 1109. I have created a NEW SONG of 10 measures and 3 choruses. Real Tracks Bass and Drums only. Recording MIDI to the Melody channel or Soloist channel - it doesn't matter which channel I use. At random, the MIDI recording just stops in the middle of the song (never the same place twice). I am running a Casio PX-S5000 through USB as a MIDI controller. I have made sure the computer will not "put to sleep" the USB ports. There is no rhyme or reason as to when it will stop recording MIDI data. Sometimes stopping when less than 100 notes are played and sometimes after 900 notes are played. It is totally random. I have tried this on two computer systems using many different songs with the same results. I can use the 10 year-old BIAB 2014 running from the USB hard drive it was supplied to me on from PG Music in 2014 and this causes no problems. Very perplexing (and frustrating). There is an error message that pops up whenever I run BIAB 2024 and support has not been able to debug this. I've attached a screenshot of the pop-up error message.

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Originally Posted by Lot2Learn
1) I am running 2024 Build 1109. (answers previous question about version)
2) I have created a NEW SONG of 10 measures and 3 choruses. (Eliminates theory of exceeded 256 limit)
3) Real Tracks Bass and Drums only.
4) Recording MIDI to the Melody channel or Soloist channel - it doesn't matter which channel I use.

Results:
At random, the MIDI recording just stops in the middle of the song (never the same place twice).

Expected Results:
MIDI does not stop recording.

Background Information: (to prove legit setup and issue is new to 2024)
a) I am running a Casio PX-S5000 through USB as a MIDI controller.
b) I have made sure the computer will not "put to sleep" the USB ports.
c) I have tried this on two computer systems using many different songs with the same results.
d) I can use the 10-year-old BIAB 2014 running from the USB hard drive it was supplied to me on from PG Music in 2014 and this causes no problems.
e) There is an error message that pops up whenever I run BIAB 2024, and support has not been able to debug this. I've attached a screenshot of the pop-up error message.

I am just trying to get someone on this forum to confirm your issue.
You've supplied a lot of good information in your last post quoted here I'm going to turn it into a standard step to repeat form.
---------------------------------------
Steps for FORUM MEMBERS to Reproduce the Issue:
1) Created a NEW SONG of 10 measures and 3 choruses, using Real track Bass on track (1) and Real Drums on track (3)
2) Recording MIDI to the Melody channel or Soloist channel.
--- Settings = Start from bar one chorus one,
--- Audio = None,
--- Filters = default
--- MIDI output is a VST

Results: MIDI stop recording in random spots.
Expect: MID does not stops recording.
---------------------------------------

Can anyone in this forum confirm the issue?

UPDATE: Following the above steps, it could not replicate the issue sing WAS drivers and MS GS waves.
Other pieces of data that need to be defined.
- In the Start from bar one chorus one, correct? A picture would be nice.
- You have record audio to none correct?
- What are your midi filter settings? A picture would be nice.
- For your midi output are you sending it back to your Casio sound module, or are you sending it to an internal VST? If internal which?

Last edited by jpettit; 01/23/24 04:34 PM.

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Originally Posted by jpettit
[quote=Lot2Learn]

1. In the Start from bar one chorus one, correct?
- YES. I am starting from bar one - the start of the song.
2. You have record audio to none correct?
-CORRECT. Record to Audio = NONE
3. What are your midi filter settings? A picture would be nice.
- See attached Screen Capture
4. For your midi output are you sending it back to your Casio sound module, or are you sending it to an internal VST? If internal which?
- MIDI output going to Pianoteq Version 8.2 internal VST or Synthogy Ivory. It doesn't matter which VST plug-in as they all create the error.
- Audio Output to computer soundcard ASIO4ALL driver.

Answers to your questions are in BOLD above.
I have created a new test song, 32 bars and 3 choruses.The same problem still exists when I record MIDI. The program stopped at random points (see screen captures). When I click on "OK - KEEP TAKE" the song continues to play from where it stopped, but without recording MIDI or the error box with ACCESS VIOLATION will pop-up (see screen shot).
I have attached the error messages and my MIDI/Audio settings to this message.

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Ok thanks I will update the steps to replicate.
The first thing they jumped out at me is you're using ASIO and you're using ASIO4All.
That can throw a monkey into the replication process.
Can you try your test setting that audio drivers to WAS?


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Originally Posted by jpettit
Ok thanks I will update the steps to replicate.
The first thing they jumped out at me is you're using ASIO and you're using ASIO4All.
That can throw a monkey into the replication process.
Can you try your test setting that audio drivers to WAS?

I tried testing using WAS audio drivers - FAIL. The same thing happened. I was actually able to get through the song once, but then on the second time through it just stopped the MIDI recording at a random spot. I also continue to get the ACCESS VIOLATION pop-up error on start-up of BIAB even when I switched to have it start with WAS instead of ASIO. Back to the drawing board...

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Please try MME, I think you will than me. Oh and be sure to try Return to Factory Settings.


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Originally Posted by DrDan
Please try MME, I think you will than me. Oh and be sure to try Return to Factory Settings.

Well I'll give you this much, it DID let me record all the way through the song without stopping as it had, but the LATENCY is absolutely atrocious!! The program is completely unusable with this amount of latency. There has to be another solution than to use MME

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All this is helping us get closer to the issue.

Another thing they would help out is if people reading this thread would try the simple two-step test and reply with it’s working OK for me or I can replicate.

This data points us to your set up vs. a general bug.

There’s probably a dozen variables involved with this problem, so it’s a game of process of elimination.

What are the specs of your system?
It’s a good idea to put that in your signature, so you never have to answer the question again.


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Yes, I also do not believe it is a software bug.
I am running a desktop and a Laptop and they are both having the same issue.
Here are my system stats for the Desktop, we will start with that one first:
Operating System: Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Intel Core i7 6700 @ 3.40GHz
16.0GB Single-Channel DDR4 @ 1063MHz (15-15-15-36)
Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti (NVIDIA)
Realtek Audio - NOT in exclusive mode
Storage:
931GB Seagate ST1000DM003-1SB102 (SATA )
1863GB Western Digital WDC WD20EZRZ-00Z5HB0 (SATA )
Casio Privia PX-S5000 as a MIDI controller (USB)

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I record in my DAW and not in BiaB and the only time I have had recording problems is when there was a conflict in audio settings. For instance every time my Nvidia Geforce RTX 4060 updates it activates it audio, thus causing me problems. Since I use an external audio device I have to go into Device Manager and deactivate the Nvidia and sometimes the RealTek audio which sometimes a Win 10 update will activate.

Are you using the Nvidia audio in one computer and the RealTek audio in the other computer? Personally I don't think either card is the best for recording. YMMV


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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A friendly reminder to anyone responding to the issue, please try the steps called out above to reproduce and respond with your results.

Other ideas of variables involved in the issue are good, but we first have to establish that this is a local issue.

Thanks


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An Update: I just tried to record a MIDI track again with the MME drivers, and the bug popped up! It stopped recording MIDI at a random point in the song. So now this error has shown up using every possible driver on my system: WAS, ASIO and MME. I'm not sure what to try next.

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You have proven that the audio driver is probable not the issue.
I have not seen one person on this forum, that has over 40 people logged in at any given time, confirm that it works for them.

Your hardware all seems perfectly adequate, so I not thinking that's an issue either.
The one thing I'm pondering is, the rate that you got the failures did seem to be different with different audio drivers.
You have already tried returning your setup to the factory default setups to eliminate that, correct?


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- If you enable the wizard playalong feature under the play menu, and record yourself playing the QWERTY keyboard, does the error happen?
- In Options | Preferences | Record Filter if you uncheck everything except for Notes does the error happen?
- When you are recording, is "None" selected for Audio?


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OK, I recorded midi under these similiar conditions for the a half hour or so. Using MME with no significant issue with latercy (likely because of how I playkeys - the original slow hand).
I set up 12 bars x 3x using RD's and Piano MST and Bass RT. Played and recorded fine. No crashes.

It does appear you may have the Pianoteq VST on two channels - on the thru so that you hear it play, and then on the Melody in order to playback the recorded midi. this worked fine on my machine, but may be stressful for your system? I suggest you just put default Synth on the thru to lighten the CPU load during recording.


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Ok I think I have found the culprit. Unfortunately, it looks like my new Casio PX-S5000 keyboard does not play nice with BIAB. Here's the test I did: I have brought out my old Roland FP-8 Keyboard and hooked it up via USB MIDI and the program runs fine and lets me record to MIDI for the entire song without stopping - no problems at all. When I close out the program and then hook up the Casio keyboard (via USB) the problem rears it's ugly head and the MIDI recording stops at random places. Does anyone else on the forum have a Casio PX-S5000 and can you reproduce this? I do not know if it would happen with the other PX-S models or not. But this is a brand new keyboard and this is what seems to be giving me the grief. I have duplicated this problem on both my laptop and desktop. Roland FP-8 - no problems. Casio=problem. So is this something in BIAB programming that needs to be addressed or what? I'm not sure where to go next. I really want to use the Casio. I tried changing settings on the Casio having to do with Local control ON/Off and High resolution MIDI out from the Casio - but these made no difference. I still have the problem whenever I use the casio PX-S5000 keyboard and try to record MIDI.

Last edited by Lot2Learn; 01/24/24 07:52 PM. Reason: Added the last 2 sentences
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Originally Posted by Andrew - PG Music
- In Options | Preferences | Record Filter if you uncheck everything except for Notes does the error happen?
One of the things Andrew suggested was to filter out unneeded MIDI data. Your new keyboard might be sending a ton of system exclusive MIDI data that's not required.
You can find out just by recording the notes and then working your way back.
You can also use the midi monitor (Windows MIDI monitor) and see what data is showing up.
You can also change the midi configuration that's being outputted by your keyboard.


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Yes, it is definitely the Casio Keyboard and BIAB version 2024. Yes I have tried unchecking everything in the MIDI window. The Casio keyboard works fine with my old version of BIAB. My old Roland keyboard has broken keys and is unusable, which is why I bought the new Casio. The ONE FEATURE that I need from BIAB is to record MIDI and I can't do that with 2024, but I can with my old version. The other thing I can't figure out is why every single time I start BIAB on my Laptop I get a pop-up error box as seen in the attachments below.

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Last edited by Lot2Learn; 01/24/24 08:54 PM.
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What did you see coming from your Casio when using the MIDI monitor?


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Originally Posted by Lot2Learn
...
The other thing I can't figure out is why every single time I start BIAB on my Laptop I get a pop-up error box as seen in the attachments below.
Well, there's certainly some opportunity for something to have been broken / corrupted by that event, and it could be related to your issue.

What version of BiaB is running on your laptop? Is this 2024?
Do you get that message on your old (2023) BiaB?

I would be reporting that along with as much detail as possible to PG Music support, especially if the laptop is running 2024.

Last edited by AudioTrack; 01/24/24 09:05 PM.

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Originally Posted by jpettit
What did you see coming from your Casio when using the MIDI monitor?

Just note on and note off. Normal MIDI - nothing unusual, no sys-ex.

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I’m assuming you’re running 1109 version of 2024 and you’ve done a complete reinstall to try to get rid of the error message.?


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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
[quote=Lot2Learn]...

What version of BiaB is running on your laptop? Is this 2024?
Yes, Version 1109.

Do you get that message on your old (2023) BiaB?
No I do not get the error with the old version - it is a version from 2014 that is running off an external portable USB drive that was supplied to me directly from PG Music.
.

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Originally Posted by jpettit
I’m assuming you’re running 1109 version of 2024 and you’ve done a complete reinstall to try to get rid of the error message.?

That will be my next step, as I don't get the error on my desktop, so there is a possibility of it being a corrupt install.

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Quote
The other thing I can't figure out is why every single time I start BIAB on my Laptop I get a pop-up error box as seen in the attachments below.

How is the Casio connected? What kind of USB interface do you have?
Presumably you do not get that error if you have the MIDI interface disconnected when you start Band-in-a-Box?


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Originally Posted by Andrew - PG Music
Quote
The other thing I can't figure out is why every single time I start BIAB on my Laptop I get a pop-up error box as seen in the attachments below.

How is the Casio connected? What kind of USB interface do you have?
The Casio goes directly from a USB out from the keyboard into the USB of the computer. No driver is needed as it is recognized by the computer and shows up in BIAB as a MIDI input device just fine.

Presumably you do not get that error if you have the MIDI interface disconnected when you start Band-in-a-Box?
That is incorrect. Even if I have the Casio unplugged from the computer I still get the error message whenever BIAB starts. I have uninstalled BIAB and did a fresh re-install and update to 1109 and still get the ACCESS VIOLATION error every time I start BIAB.

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-Put a text file named safemode.txt in your bb\Preferences folder and then boot the program (should say 'safe mode' on splash screen). Does the error occur?
-Delete that file, then open the program and check the option to "write detailed bootup log" in Options | Preferences. Reboot again, and then look for the bootuplog text file in bb\Data. Please send us that file or the contents of it.


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L2L.

have you compared the settings from the bb version that works to the 2024. this is a problem ive seen in the past diagnosing problems of peoples pc's...ie different settings thus different outcomes.
in addition when you say 2014 works and 2024 dont are you comparing with same plug ins loaded ?
if not maybe different plug ins loaded in 2024 are placeing
added load on your pc resources.

if its proved that its not a bug in bb 2024 then the only
conclusion i can make is there is a difference in the parameters of what is being done in 2014 versus 2024.
make sure you do a test with the same song loaded in 2014 and 2024 with exactly same plug ins...ie all the same.... its difficult without being there...so one step at a time in diagnosing.reasons.

sometime read my tips in tips n tricks pg forum re optimising a pc for music production in case its not bb fault.

happiness.

om. 🇨🇦. 🇬🇧

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/25/24 06:16 AM.

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https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
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Originally Posted by Andrew - PG Music
-Put a text file named safemode.txt in your bb\Preferences folder and then boot the program (should say 'safe mode' on splash screen). Does the error occur?
Yes, it the error occurs even when booting in SAFE MODE.

-Delete that file, then open the program and check the option to "write detailed bootup log" in Options | Preferences. Reboot again, and then look for the bootuplog text file in bb\Data. Please send us that file or the contents of it.
File has been sent to support

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Originally Posted by Lot2Learn
Originally Posted by jpettit
What did you see coming from your Casio when using the MIDI monitor?

Just note on and note off. Normal MIDI - nothing unusual, no sys-ex.
The Casio would send other information as well, such as Pedal on/off etc (I also own one). It has a hybrid, touch sensitive weighted action keyboard.
Can you check that there are no filters set to only display note-on / note-off messages? What other messages are received?


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Ok here's a screenshot showing the last MIDI events before the program stopped recording MIDI abruptly in the middle of a session. Interestingly, there are events received that don't seem to correspond to anything I did. For example, it says "sustain pedal" and I never touched the sustain pedal throughout the entire session. It also has several "CC#88 undefined", but I don't know what they are. All I did was play notes, no other controllers were used. I hope this might be helpful.

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It looks like you are not filtering out everything but notes. It may be beneficial to show us what is checked and unchecked in your MIDI filter. I know you said that only notes on and off were selected but somehow it might have been reset or it isn't working. If necessary I could try recording in BiaB; I normally only record in my DAW.

Another thought have you tried to record MIDI in another song? I ask because if you are only using one song over and over that song file may be corrupted.


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Originally Posted by MarioD
It looks like you are not filtering out everything but notes. It may be beneficial to show us what is checked and unchecked in your MIDI filter. I know you said that only notes on and off were selected but somehow it might have been reset or it isn't working. If necessary I could try recording in BiaB; I normally only record in my DAW.
Another thought have you tried to record MIDI in another song? I ask because if you are only using one song over and over that song file may be corrupted.

I took a completely different song and made sure the ONLY thing checked in the MIDI filter was NOTES and it still stopped recording MIDI at a random spot in the song. Looking at the MIDI monitor it appears as if the BIAB song is generating some MIDI events. I am not sure where they are coming from. I have disabled all tracks except the ones I am using.

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Originally Posted by Lot2Learn
Ok here's a screenshot showing the last MIDI events before the program stopped recording MIDI abruptly in the middle of a session. Interestingly, there are events received that don't seem to correspond to anything I did. For example, it says "sustain pedal" and I never touched the sustain pedal throughout the entire session. It also has several "CC#88 undefined", but I don't know what they are. All I did was play notes, no other controllers were used. I hope this might be helpful.

Analyzing the data, I've got a few concerns, as listed below. It seems that there may be more than meets they eye with what the Casio is sending, or there is some corruption occurring in the transmission, or there is something in between that is creating the additional events and adding them to the data stream. The channel is set in the low order byte of the first word, and it changes between 1,2,6 & 10 (those come from the $B0, $B1, $B5, $B9 values)

Separately, are you using any Arpeggiator function in the performance?

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The Casio has three MIDI interfaces:

Wireless MIDI & Audio Adaptor (WU-BT10)
Bluetooth MIDI (MIDI over Bluetooth® Low Energy)
MIDI can also be transmitted via USB port B

Which connection are you using?

EDIT: Update, reading back through the thread, you mentioned: "I am running a Casio PX-S5000 through USB as a MIDI controller"

Last edited by AudioTrack; 01/25/24 05:50 PM.

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It does appear you may have the Pianoteq VST on two channels - on the thru so that you hear it play, and then on the Melody in order to playback the recorded midi. this worked fine on my machine, but may be stressful for your system? I suggest you just put default Synth on the thru to lighten the CPU load during recording.

Are you using two VSTi?


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Also book in the manual see if there's ways to configure the keyboard send more or less MIDI data. Looking on at the manual online it looks like it has two to three different on's and off's and CC numbers for different pressures of on and off. etc.

PGM, does the filter notes record filtered data or does it just not show it?


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Originally Posted by DrDan
Quote
It does appear you may have the Pianoteq VST on two channels - on the thru so that you hear it play, and then on the Melody in order to playback the recorded midi. this worked fine on my machine, but may be stressful for your system? I suggest you just put default Synth on the thru to lighten the CPU load during recording.

Are you using two VSTi?


No, I am only using Pianoteq VSTi. I have tried using the CoyoteWT and the same problem exists (recording MIDI stopping at random).

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What, if any, MIDI data is being sent if you just start the MIDI monitor and play nothing on the keyboard?


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I am not using an Arrpegiator.

When I look at the MIDI Monitor file generated when running BIAB 2014 (which is the last version I have that works properly with the Casio) there are only entries labeled "Ext" in the column for the Source. Looking at the BIAB 2024 MIDI Monitor there are entries for both "Ext" an "1" - what is the difference between source labeled "Ext" and "1" ? I wonder if the fact that source "1" does not show up in the MIDI monitor of the 2014 version has any bearing on the situation. Also, there are no "Note-Off" entries in the 2014 version MIDI monitor file so I don't think that has anything to do with it. In addition, the 2014 file does not have any of the "#88 Undefined" entries that are being generated in the 2024 MIDI monitor file. More clues perhaps?

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I believe you said you have another keyboard that has a broken key, right?
If so have you looked at the MIDI data being sent by it? Maybe play with the pitch bend and mod wheel to see if BiaB is blocking that data. If it is then the problem is with the Casio. If not then the problem is with BiaB.


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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
What, if any, MIDI data is being sent if you just start the MIDI monitor and play nothing on the keyboard?

If I hit "Record MIDI" this is what shows on the MIDI Monitor (see attached image) with those last 3 entries being generated by the count-off on the drum track. So it looks like Source "1" is the BIAB program itself. These entries are before a single note is played on the MIDI keyboard.

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Originally Posted by MarioD
I believe you said you have another keyboard that has a broken key, right?
If so have you looked at the MIDI data being sent by it? Maybe play with the pitch bend and mod wheel to see if BiaB is blocking that data. If it is then the problem is with the Casio. If not then the problem is with BiaB.

Neither my old keyboard or the new Casio have any mod or pitch bend wheels - just keys.

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I just found this MIDI implementation chart in the Casio manual. It might have some bearing on the situation but I have no idea how to use this information. See attached.

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I have a very strong suspicion that a lot of the additional / unexpected events are generated and input into the data stream by the BiaB program itself.
(Although this doesn't necessarily get anyone closer to the cause of the lockup problem.)


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Ok a couple of IMPORTANT pieces of information I have just discovered in my testing. This all goes along with my theory that the CASIO PXS5000 keyboard does not play nice with BIAB 2024.
FIRST, the Casio transmits High Resolution Velocity MIDI data. High Resolution MIDI Velocity CC#88 was adopted by the MMA around 2010, giving controllers and instruments a velocity range of 0-16,000+, instead of the basic MIDI 0-127. (Pianoteq is one of the few software instruments that respond to it.). These are the CC # 88 picked up in the BIAB MIDI Monitor but apparently BIAB 2024 does not know how to respond to these. This is most likely causing the recording to stop abruptly with some of the MIDI data being transmitted by the Casio BIAB just doesn't know what to do with it and translates it into the wrong command and stops the recording.

SECOND: I am able to DISABLE the high resolution MIDI velocity data transmission in the Casio and when I do that, BIAB responds better, but not perfect. The MIDI Monitor no longer picks up any strange data, the only thing listed is Note on clean data (see attached screen shot). BIAB seems to do well with this UNLESS, I play too fast or strike the same note repeatedly and very fast. These two actions will cause the recording to STOP abruptly.

So I'm getting closer, but I can't play too fast because as soon as I do or repeat a single note fast in succession, it triggers the recording to stop - and that is with high velocity resolution turned off. So it seems that BIAB is having a problem with the rapid playing. Also, I wonder if BIAB programming can implement the High resolution Velocity MIDI data reception into its programming.

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Good job! Thumbs up
PGM can make some improvements to their recording code that might fix this.

Meanwhile do you have a DAW the you can export the backing tracks to and record your performance there?


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Originally Posted by jpettit
Good job! Thumbs up
PGM can make some improvements to their recording code that might fix this.

Meanwhile do you have a DAW the you can export the backing tracks to and record your performance there?

It would be really nice if PGM can fix this with an update.

Yes, I can export the backing tracks into my DAW and record that way. I just like having a quick way to record right into BIAB (when the inspiration hits) and then save the MIDI file that I can then import into my DAW for remixing later.

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L2L,

I remember reading a post a couple of years ago about a problem created by a mismatch in resolution of MIDI data.

Given that you have high resolution input, it may be that you need to match that PPQ (parts per quarter note) in BIAB. (This is what solved the problem for the user in the past.) This mismatch in PPQ resolution could also explain why you are getting multiple notes happening as a single event (i.e. high resolution PPQ data being reduced to lower resolution PPQ data).

Under "Options | Preferences", choose "Midi file" and try setting BIAB's PPQ to a much higher resolution. By default, BIAB uses 120 PPQ. It might be that you need to run this setting at 1920. Also check your keyboard and VSTi/DXI softsynth to see if these also need to be matched.

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I agree with Noel and PGM would want you to try that first.


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Originally Posted by Noel96
L2L,

I remember reading a post a couple of years ago about a problem created by a mismatch in resolution of MIDI data.

Given that you have high resolution input, it may be that you need to match that PPQ (parts per quarter note) in BIAB. (This is what solved the problem for the user in the past.) This mismatch in PPQ resolution could also explain why you are getting multiple notes happening as a single event (i.e. high resolution PPQ data being reduced to lower resolution PPQ data).

Under "Options | Preferences", choose "Midi file" and try setting BIAB's PPQ to a much higher resolution. By default, BIAB uses 120 PPQ. It might be that you need to run this setting at 1920. Also check your keyboard and VSTi/DXI softsynth to see if these also need to be matched.

Regards,
--Noel


That was a great suggestion, but unfortunately, it did not solve the problem. I don't have to even be playing a single note repeatedly; it occurs (the MIDI recording stops in the middle of the song) when I am playing anything - not even just fast notes. This stops the entire song waiting for me to click on the pop-up dialog box as to whether I want to save the recording. Then, when I close the dialog box, the song continues to play. Somehow, BIAB is getting a signal to STOP RECORDING, but I don't know what it is interpreting in my playing as that command. So weird. I'm not giving up yet, but I'm getting close. I have a 2014 version of BIAB that works fine (without changing the PPQ settings) so I'm starting to think the upgrade has done nothing but create headaches. It would be interesting to see another Casio PX-S5000 user try to duplicate the issue.

Last edited by Lot2Learn; 01/26/24 09:14 AM.
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L2L.
i asked you up thread some questions but no response.
sigh so lets have another go.

1.did you compare your bb 2014 settings in bb with your bb 2024 settings ? includeing recording dialog settings.?
also at the top of the bb chord view post back your settings for number of choruses and end bar for both 2014 and 2024.

2. i find it telling that the other midi kbd fp works fine i read upthread..correct ?

3. re stop ...thats good deducing mate.
maybe its a setting in bb THATS DIFFERENT TWEEN 2014 and 2024. Because as you said something is telling bb to stop.
im wondering if there is a linkeage tween the flipping over of choruses and the stop condition.

4. something to try. do an experiment as follows.
instead of embedding the repeats in the chord sheet...in 2024...unfold the whole song and enter chorus 1 at top of bb. ie...lay the song out in one long chord sheet.
does the stop problem go away ?
sometimes ive found for some reason unfolding works better than embedding repeats etc.

5.casio has a user forum. worst case if its not a bb bug i would contact cas support and raise the issue on the forum.

your call on whether to get back to me.

sometimes its difficult for people to help others because the helpers arent there. thus its a process of elimination often.

om

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/26/24 03:10 PM.

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Originally Posted by justanoldmuso
L2L.
i asked you up thread some questions but no response.
sigh so lets have another go.

1.did you compare your bb 2014 settings in bb with your bb 2024 settings ? includeing recording dialog settings.?
also at the top of the bb chord view post back your settings for number of choruses and end bar for both 2014 and 2024.

ANSWER: Yes, I have compared the settings and they are the same.

2. i find it telling that the other midi kbd fp works fine i read upthread..correct ?

ANSWER: The Roland keyboard works fine with 2024, just the Casio has the problem

3. re stop ...thats good deducing mate.
maybe its a setting in bb THATS DIFFERENT TWEEN 2014 and 2024. Because as you said something is telling bb to stop.
im wondering if there is a linkeage tween the flipping over of choruses and the stop condition.

ANSWER: It is definitely a MIDI event being transmitted by the Casio and interpreted by BIAB as a STOP signal.

4. something to try. do an experiment as follows.
instead of embedding the repeats in the chord sheet...in 2024...unfold the whole song and enter chorus 1 at top of bb. ie...lay the song out in one long chord sheet.
does the stop problem go away ?
sometimes ive found for some reason unfolding works better than embedding repeats etc.

ANSWER: Makes no difference.

5.casio has a user forum. worst case if its not a bb bug i would contact cas support and raise the issue on the forum.

your call on whether to get back to me.

sometimes its difficult for people to help others because the helpers arent there. thus its a process of elimination often.

Yes, Thanks.

om

LATEST UPDATE:
I have been working with Andrew at PG Support and using different versions of BIAB here is what my testing shows:
BIAB 2016 - runs perfectly. No problems and no errors.
BIAB 2018 - runs perfectly. No problems, no errors.
BIAB 2020 64 Bit  - runs perfectly. No problems and no errors.
So all of those versions are all perfect. I tried stressing them all to the max with very fast and rapid playing and playing one note in succession rapidly 20 - 30 times and they all were perfect.
As soon as I try to run BIAB 2024 - ERROR - Access Violation.This error pops-up when I run the program. When I click to close that error dialogue box another box pops-up telling me an exception has occurred and I can continue but I should save work and reboot program. Then if I close out that box and try to record in the program, the program will run but will stop recording the second I play the same note rapidly, even just 4 or 5 times in a row.  I tried to crash all of the other versions listed above several times using this technique and they never stopped the recording. Only 2024 stops the recording when I play notes rapidly.

So that's where we are at.

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When 2024 crashes and you get the pop up window that tells you a crash has occurred a crash file is created. I believe the file is stored at C:/bb/Data/Logs. You should be able to identify the crash file by the file time stamp. Send an email to support@pgmusic.com with the file attached. Reference this thread and mention Andrew is involved.


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Originally Posted by Lot2Learn
...
As soon as I try to run BIAB 2024 - ERROR - Access Violation.This error pops-up when I run the program. When I click to close that error dialogue box another box pops-up telling me an exception has occurred and I can continue but I should save work and reboot program.
Yes, and that's why I wrote in this post that you need to get to the bottom of that A/V first.

There's a high possibility that the A/V has set the stage for a future downstream failure.

So keep us posted with feedback from the PGM support.
PS: If Andrew's looking at it, you're in good hands.


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Originally Posted by Jim Fogle
When 2024 crashes and you get the pop up window that tells you a crash has occurred a crash file is created. I believe the file is stored at C:/bb/Data/Logs. You should be able to identify the crash file by the file time stamp. Send an email to support@pgmusic.com with the file attached. Reference this thread and mention Andrew is involved.

Let me clarify the sequence of events.
As soon as I try to run 2024 - ERROR - Access Violation. The error log in BB\Data gives no more information than what is on the pop-up dialog box when BIAB is started: " Access violation at address 000000000075E7E4 in module 'bbw64.exe'. Read of address 0000000000000629 at: 000000000075E7E4
"

This error pops-up when I start BIAB. When I click to close that error dialogue box another box pops-up telling me an exception has occurred and I can continue but I should save work and reboot program. It doesn't matter if I reboot because the pop-up comes every time. Then when I close out that pop-up box I can use BIAB - so I guess it is inaccurate to say the program crashes. Next, I load up a song and try to record a MIDI track by playing on the Casio keyboard. That is when the program will stop recording the instant I play the same note rapidly, even just 4 or 5 times in a row. Note: This only happens with the Casio Keyboard. When I switch over to the Roland Keyboard, even though I get the "ACCESS VIOLATION" on start-up of BIAB 2024, I am able to record MIDI without it stopping when I play a few notes rapidly in succession like the Casio does. Therefore, I do not believe the "ACCESS VIOLATION" error is the key to the problem of the program stopping during MIDI recording. It is purely an issue with a MIDI signal being sent by the Casio when notes are played rapidly that tells the recording to STOP. Also, this STOP MIDI message is only "heard" in BIAB 2024, not in the 4 other early versions I have tested using the Casio keyboard.

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L2L.

Ok so unfolding same prob.

this might seem way way out there and odd but im wondering if a timeout condition is occurring viz casio and bb ie bb is waiting for data ..doesnt get it and thus stops.
only pg will know in their coding if a stop condition can occur re the above. maybe midi lag is the issue with cas but not fp.

total!y blue skying it but if fp works with 2024 is there a possibility that the fp transmssion is faster than the casio ?
so a lag condition doesnt occur ?

as a crazy experiment check if you have big buffers in bb settings ...check this...then see if reduceing the buffer size.helps. sometimes the silliest things can cause problems.

by the way...and i dont want to get into a big debate over this ..but if your useing pc on board sound chip...ive seen lots of issues helping folks over the years...would recommend a decent low latency asio audio nterface. maybe try out for a week to ensure it works great see rb forum and tips forum for good interfaces.
a decent interface will let you set low buffers so you dont get latency which you mentioned up thread.

ps.do you have the net or background programs active while midi recording ? check in task mgr...ie other programs consuming pc resources ?
also if you reply by saying but why does cas work with previous years bb versions and not 2024..?
a possible answer is maybe 2024 places added demands on pc resources over previous years. but only pg can answer if 2024 consumes more resources.

just some ideas.

om. 🇨🇦. 🇬🇧

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/27/24 09:26 AM.

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Originally Posted by justanoldmuso
L2L.

if fp works with 2024 is there a possibility that the fp transmssion is faster than the casio ?

ANSWER: Actually I think it would be the opposite because the Roland is 15 years old and the Casio is brand new. The Casio could be too fast or transmitting too much data. Still doesn't quite go along with why Casio works with all earlier versions EXCEPT 2024.

i dont want to get into a big debate over this ..but if your using pc on board sound chip...ive seen lots of issues helping folks over the years...

ANSWER: I have a desktop and laptop. In one system I am using an external audio interface and the other the internal sound card - makes no difference.

Thanks for the suggestions.

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L2L.

i hate to be beaten by this stuff...lol.

Ok given your answers and all the ideas presented in this thread...and bear with me...but heres further thinking...

1..maybe pg can comment if 2024 is consuming more
pc resources than preceeding years.
if true then possibly other tasks on the pc in total with bb are leading to a resource issue and impacting bb ? check in task mgr eg is net running also ? if so try without the net.

2..now i know what your going to say which is an enigma...ie...BUT...fp works on bb 2024 !
and thats an excellent point....given your point that maybe cas is throwing out more data than fp maybe this in combo
with the larger resource useage bb2024 in total is causeing this odd stop situation. ive seen lots of weird things over the years.
it would be interesting to investigate how much data per sec is transmitted by cas over midi versus the fp.
and get actual figures.
in summary it might be just a pc resource issue.
ie bb 2024 plus cas consumes more resources than bb2024 plus fp.. but i might be out to lunch on this.
out of interest check out size of 2014 bb exe versus 2024 bb exe. ...there might be a clue there. ram useage ?

3..its totally unrelated but interestingly yonks ago i helped someone with a cas...he ended up getting another kbd.

heres a final thing thats bugging me...some people might say 'its gotta be a codeing bug in bb'...but if true why does fp work with 2024 ?

im gonna get a cuppa tea and do more thinking...lol.


best.

om

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/27/24 11:04 AM.

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All.

ok something ive found.
running 2024 on a basic song here tssk manager in win is reporting around 2 percent to about 5 percent cpu useage for bbw64 and around 460 mb of ram useage.
which varies depending on default synth loaded.
in the bb drive itself the exe for bbw64 seems to be around 56mb..
and bb 2024 32 bit is 44mb ?
do you concur ?

L2L can you please tell me in 2024 64 bit running for fp connected what your above stats are in win task mgr ?
now repeat for casio connected. any big differences in ram or cpu viz fp ?
repeat above for 2024 32 bb. does cas work in bb 32 ??
now please repeat for your 2014 version bb.
task mgr again. firstly fp then casio connected..
how much pc resources are being consumed ?
cpu and ram.

addendum.
i assume youve been running bb 64 thru all this.
could you try with bb32 exe which comes with 2024 and use with casio connected...
does the problem disappear ?

humour me..lol...i hate to be beaten
the reasons for above are to assess the possibility of the pc running out of resources. what keeps on troubling me is fp works with 2024
which might lead one logically to conclude there isnt a bug in bb2024. btw as others have said andrew is v good people.


om. 🇨🇦. 🇬🇧

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/27/24 04:47 PM.

New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
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Quote
That was a great suggestion, but unfortunately, it did not solve the problem. I don't have to even be playing a single note repeatedly; it occurs (the MIDI recording stops in the middle of the song) when I am playing anything - not even just fast notes.
The MIDI clock rate I believe is 31.25kbits/second. Extrapolating that out, and presuming a start and stop bit are added to the 8-bit byte, this means that a byte transmits in about 320 microseconds, and with the normal MIDI message taking up three bytes, indicates that a complete message is transmitted in less than 1 millisecond (3 x 320 microseconds).

USB will transfer data at a significantly higher data rate again.

So I believe that your issue is not in any way related to the speed of your playing (unless you are exceeding 1000 note events / second crazy).

You mentioned that the BiaB Stop Recording message is displayed. That message would not normally come from the transmitted MIDI. It would come from within BiaB, usually from the Stop button being pressed on the transport.

Is this the stop message that you see?
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Delving a little further into MIDI, there are System Real Time messages that include a Start and Stop message which are normally used to control sequencers.
Are there any settings on the Casio to instruct it to run as a sequencer or to synchronize an external device?

Could you provide a screen capture of the end of the MIDI data at the point where the unexpected Stop event occurs?
(Please make sure that no filters are affecting the displayed data)

Last edited by AudioTrack; 01/28/24 02:36 PM.

BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Was "MIDI Recording Stops Suddenly And Randomly" ever sorted out after pages n pages of posts ?

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Originally Posted by musocity
Was "MIDI Recording Stops Suddenly And Randomly" ever sorted out after pages n pages of posts ?
Not that I'm aware of so far.


BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Delving a little further into MIDI, there are System Real Time messages that include a Start and Stop message which are normally used to control sequencers.
Are there any settings on the Casio to instruct it to run as a sequencer or to synchronize an external device?

ANSWER: Not that I'm aware, but I am reaching out to Casio about this. There is an internal recorder on the Casio, but it is triggered by pushing an actual physical button that I can assure you is not being pushed.

Could you provide a screen capture of the end of the MIDI data at the point where the unexpected Stop event occurs?
(Please make sure that no filters are affecting the displayed data)

Attached is a screenshot of the last MIDI messages before the recording of MIDI stopped and the "Save Recording?" dialogue pop-up box.

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Originally Posted by musocity
Was "MIDI Recording Stops Suddenly And Randomly" ever sorted out after pages n pages of posts ?

No, the issue is still present with BIAB 2024 and I am still working on it with PG Support. We have determined that early versions of BIAB 2014 thru 2019 do not cause this issue. I'm still waiting to test some later versions.

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