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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Well I learned something new today after a chat session with a PGMusic tech but would like to
nail this one down.
After I re-built my Styles list it said I had 7371 styles, which to me sounds like a heck of a lot of styles!
First I should remind everyone that I did a selective installation of BIAB 2024 Ultra-Pak a couple of weeks ago.
I started with a full installation to a USB disk and then just copied the RealTracks/Drums that I will use to my d: drive.
Those RealTracks/Drums were almost exclusively jazz tracks (drums, piano, electric piano, organ and bass).
So today I wanted to change a song's style to a jazz style, in particular a bebop style.
Much to my dismay no bebop style was showing in the styles list! Out of 7371 not a single bebop style was showing?
That's when I started my chat session and was told about the Realtracks picker, which I hadn't known about before.
Once I was in the Realtracks picker I could see all of my Realtracks/Drums that I had installed, including many bebop tracks.
I was told that because I didn't have a full Realtracks/Drums installation I was doomed (paraphrasing).
It seems every time I will go into the stylepicker I will come up short.
It won't display everything that's available to me (not even close).
Is there some way to get around this, short of installing everything on my small SSD?
Space is limited on my SSD.
Will I have to tediously go into Realtracks Picker and pick one instrument at a time for every song I make?
Is there no easier way for my situation?
And where are all those 7371 styles, I don't think anything close to that is displayed for me in my list, even though it said it found that many.
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Sounds to me like you have everything, but have just not installed it due to limited space. Right?
If so, that should be an easy fix. Last I checked hard drive space was cheap. So as long as you are not on a laptop drop a hundred bucks and get a large, fast and cheap drive and add it to you machine. That is the way a lot of us have solved this problem.
Could it be that simple?
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 319
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 319 |
Sounds to me like you have everything, but have just not installed it due to limited space. Right?
If so, that should be an easy fix. Last I checked hard drive space was cheap. So as long as you are not on a laptop drop a hundred bucks and get a large, fast and cheap drive and add it to you machine. That is the way a lot of us have solved this problem.
Could it be that simple? If only.  In another thread I posted a couple of weeks ago when I was figuring out how to accomplish my minimal installation, I revealed I am extremely sensitive to EMF's. Adding a second SSD is out of the question, as I would feel tension in my head. When I bought my current SSD a few years ago (my first SATA drive) I was very happy to discover I could live with my 500G SSD. That was a big jump from my previous 160G hard drive. When it worked I loaded up and bought 8 more of these 500G drives. I didn't think I'd be able to use them simultaneously, but at least I could back up my main SSD drive and also have spares in case my main crashed. I have yet to try out a 1T SSD by the same company (Samsung). It might work, it might not. One thing is for sure, it would be a huge investment in time just to get a new larger SSD set up to same state my current one is in, just for the sake of a BIAB fix. Is there no other way to get stylepicker to work for me? I should add one more thing. When I was doing my installation, to save space on c: I installed the program and Realtracks/Drums to d: drive (a partition of my SSD). So both c: and d: are limited in space.
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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When storage space is minimal then external storage is the best option. Let's assume for a moment you use a PG Music Ultra PAK external drive. A minimal installation installs very few files on your internal C drive. You could delete the existing RealTrack and RealDrums and actually gain storage space on your internal C and D drives.
The next issue to overcome is your sensitivity to EMF radiation. A computer tech should be able to modify the external drive USB cable to add a chassis ground shield. The shield should block EMF radiation from the cable and the external drive enclosure. Adding a chassis ground shield to a cable is pretty easy to do so it shouldn't cost much. That way you can enjoy what you already have without having to swap internal drives.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2018
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...
The next issue to overcome is your sensitivity to EMF radiation. A computer tech should be able to modify the external drive USB cable to add a chassis ground shield. The shield should block EMF radiation from the cable and the external drive enclosure. Adding a chassis ground shield to a cable is pretty easy to do so it shouldn't cost much. That way you can enjoy what you already have without having to swap internal drives. Thanks very much Jim. I'm going to have to investigate the shielding technique you are mentioning.  Actually right now my USB SSD's don't even have an enclosure.
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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...
I started with a full installation to a USB disk and then just copied the RealTracks/Drums that I will use to my d: drive.
...
I was told that because I didn't have a full Realtracks/Drums installation I was doomed (paraphrasing).
It seems every time I will go into the stylepicker I will come up short.
It won't display everything that's available to me (not even close).
... I do not entirely agree with that "I was told" advice. Every year, I copy only those new RealTracks I know I will need to the backup machine that I keep in another location. I have never had a problem with BIAB finding them, and indexing works fine. Caveat: I do keep all the RealDrums - they are relatively smaller. And I do copy over all the folders that have style data in them, plus all the files in the /bb top level folder. I suspect I'm getting various indexing and supporting files that you aren't getting. In other words, I copy all the small files and only omit the large ones that are the RealTracks I will never use. Eliminating the rock and country guitars alone reduces the size by half.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 319
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 319 |
...
I started with a full installation to a USB disk and then just copied the RealTracks/Drums that I will use to my d: drive.
...
I was told that because I didn't have a full Realtracks/Drums installation I was doomed (paraphrasing).
It seems every time I will go into the stylepicker I will come up short.
It won't display everything that's available to me (not even close).
... I do not entirely agree with that "I was told" advice. Every year, I copy only those new RealTracks I know I will need to the backup machine that I keep in another location. I have never had a problem with BIAB finding them, and indexing works fine. Caveat: I do keep all the RealDrums - they are relatively smaller. And I do copy over all the folders that have style data in them, plus all the files in the /bb top level folder. I suspect I'm getting various indexing and supporting files that you aren't getting. In other words, I copy all the small files and only omit the large ones that are the RealTracks I will never use. Eliminating the rock and country guitars alone reduces the size by half. Thanks Matt, that's encouraging. I'm going to experiment and see if I can come up with something close to yours. I'll start with RealDrums. Can you tell me which folders have 'style data'? Top level /bb folder meaning bbw.exe files or something else? One thing I'm confused about is why BIAB told me I had 7371 styles, when they clearly are not available for me to use. Why give me this number when a) it doesn't list 7371 styles? b) many styles won't load/play because I am missing RealTracks on my drive?
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks very much Jim. I'm going to have to investigate the shielding technique you are mentioning. Actually right now my USB SSD's don't even have an enclosure. I don't remember if you mentioned whether the PC was desktop/tower or a laptop. If the latter, this is probably infeasible, but if the former it probably should. Have you considered putting everything you can inside a "Faraday cage". You'd need to make a suitable-sized box out of wire mesh and electrically connect the panels well every couple of inches (solder, soldered braid, copper tape, e.g.: https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/3m/1181-X-1-2/111515) and earth the whole thing, preferably with copper braid. You could also fit ferrite beads to any cables right as they come out of the cage, e.g.: https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/produc...xUomCqwqi5ar4RKSQFEasktIgAEyaaHgCwpx4EUAThere are DIY designs and ideas on the Web. In principle that should cut emissions significantly.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 319
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OP
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Thanks very much Jim. I'm going to have to investigate the shielding technique you are mentioning. Actually right now my USB SSD's don't even have an enclosure. I don't remember if you mentioned whether the PC was desktop/tower or a laptop. If the latter, this is probably infeasible, but if the former it probably should. Have you considered putting everything you can inside a "Faraday cage". You'd need to make a suitable-sized box out of wire mesh and electrically connect the panels well every couple of inches (solder, soldered braid, copper tape, e.g.: https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/3m/1181-X-1-2/111515) and earth the whole thing, preferably with copper braid. You could also fit ferrite beads to any cables right as they come out of the cage, e.g.: There are DIY designs and ideas on the Web. In principle that should cut emissions significantly. Thanks Gord that's very helpful! Yes my PC (a very small one) is a desktop. I should mention that I don't currently have enclosures for my SSDs because they were designed to be internal drives. But I think your suggestions are promising because my internal SSD is exactly the same as the one I'd make as external. And the internal one doesn't give me any problems, being housed in its case.
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OK let's see if I can think through this logically.
I would like my Stylepicker list to offer me a complete list of available jazz styles that I can browse through.
Right now it's not doing that.
I am assuming it's because I don't have some RealTracks/Drums that are required for various styles.
Am I correct in my assumption?
I would be very willing to install ALL the jazz Realtracks/Drums if this would get BIAB to offer me all the jazz styles.
If I can do this, is there an easy way to find and install all the jazz Realtracks/Drums?
Or would I have to try to find them manually?
Currently I installed only those Realtracks/Drums that interested me.
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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... I am assuming it's because I don't have some RealTracks/Drums that are required for various styles... I don't think that sounds right. The Stylepicker isn't smart enough to know if you have all the individual components of a particular style, that you are missing certain RealTracks (or Drums). It only lists the styles that you have purchased. The assumption would be that you purchased the styles to go with the certain package you bought. We see people getting into trouble with this when they have the Pro version but purchase the Xtra Styles (without noticing the caution) and find they don't work. That seems to me different from what you are experiencing, although I could be completely wrong. You have to generate the song before you are told what is not there (although seeing N/A in the mixer is a good clue). You asked before what I copied over, so that I don't get this kind of error. Now that I am on my computer, I can recall what I think I did. in the /bb folder, I copied all the following folders: /Data /Preferences /Styles as well as /Drums but only some of /RealTracks folders. And one more thing: I copied all the individual files in the /bb folder itself. Let me know if what you did is the same. Once again, the real space killer is the RealTracks. Most of the rest of those files I listed are much smaller.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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But I think your suggestions are promising because my internal SSD is exactly the same as
the one I'd make as external. And the internal one doesn't give me any problems, being housed
in its case. In principle, inside the case should be low radiation, but it isn't guaranteed, partly because it depends a bit on cables and the like. Keep the Faraday cage in mind. One small personal thing, though; I prefer to not have my name shortened. No offence, no pack drill. Thanks.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Gordon's idea of a Faraday cage is a great idea. I wish I had thought of it myself.
I believe putting your external drives in external drive enclosures would be a great start to reducing the EMF your computer system generates.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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... I am assuming it's because I don't have some RealTracks/Drums that are required for various styles... I don't think that sounds right. The Stylepicker isn't smart enough to know if you have all the individual components of a particular style, that you are missing certain RealTracks (or Drums). It only lists the styles that you have purchased. The assumption would be that you purchased the styles to go with the certain package you bought. We see people getting into trouble with this when they have the Pro version but purchase the Xtra Styles (without noticing the caution) and find they don't work. That seems to me different from what you are experiencing, although I could be completely wrong. You have to generate the song before you are told what is not there (although seeing N/A in the mixer is a good clue). Thanks Matt I keep filling more and more gaps that I have with BIAB. Well BIAB isn't as smart as I thought then (I thought it was noticing I was missing components from styles). But it seems you might have missed something. You said: "It only lists the styles that you have purchased." After I followed your instructions below I went into the Stylepicker and checked out the Styles numbers more carefully than before. They might have changed as a result of the updating you recommended. But this is what it said for me under Jazz: 3281 UltraPak styles, (2219 Jazz found). So it is noticing that I purchased the UltraPak and states the number of jazz styles in it. But it also states the Jazz styles it found, which is less. You asked before what I copied over, so that I don't get this kind of error. Now that I am on my computer, I can recall what I think I did. in the /bb folder, I copied all the following folders:
/Data
/Preferences
/Styles
as well as
/Drums
but only some of /RealTracks folders.
And one more thing: I copied all the individual files in the /bb folder itself.
Let me know if what you did is the same.
. And now I have some really good news! After following your instructions, the biggest being copying all the RealDrums onto my drive, my StylesList has grown markedly. I can now see tons of Bebop styles whereas before none were listed! I already had the /Data/, /Preferences/, and /Styles folders installed. And my /bb folder was also up to date. So basically I just installed several Gigs of RealDrums. But that seemed to make the difference, strangely enough. But here's a real kicker. Remember that thread I started lamenting that my mMaj7 chords weren't playing? For some strange reason they are playing now! And you gave one more important instruction to me that I hadn't been doing as a rule. I wasn't regenerating after choosing a new style.
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like you are better off.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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