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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I am running Windows 7 64 bit which as you know won't run the included Roland synth in BIAB. I am using the Microsoft GS synth which won't sink with real tracks due to the latency. I own Miroslav Philharmonik and Sample Tank 2. Does anyone know if there is a way to use the synth engines out of these programs and make them work in BIAB and Real Band? If so, which file do I pull and what folder do I place them in? Or if there is a way to make the Microsoft GS synth sink with real tracks? I know that I can get TTS-1 and use it but I am trying to use what I already have. I apologize if this question has been answered before.
Thank you for your help.
Steve
Steve
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I forgot to tell you. I am running BIAB 2009
Steve
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Using MME sound drivers and the microsoft synth, all that is required is to enter the right latency figure in milliSeconds into the Latency box in the BiaB MIDI Output window.
This number can differ with different CPU speeds, but the recommended starting point is to enter "430" there for 430mS. Trial and error, you might be able to pare some off of that figure to get it dead on, but 430 is typically "enough". Some really fast machines, you may find that a number in the 200s does the job. You may have to revisit several times to narrow it down. Once you find it, it should stick.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks Mac. I will give that a try. I really appreciate how you and the others on this forum help us with our problems.
Steve
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It doesn't have to be hit and miss any longer. Go to: audio/audio drivers settings click on "soft synth latency adjust" & follow the instructions.
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Quote:
I own Miroslav Philharmonik and Sample Tank 2. Does anyone know if there is a way to use the synth engines out of these programs and make them work in BIAB and Real Band?
You can use one of these but not both at the same time with Biab because it can only access one midi output port.
Real Band on the other hand has 16 midi ports so no problem there. The problem with these is they are not GM synths and Biab works best with a GM synth like the Forte DXi, the Roland TTS-1 or a hardware synth that has a GM bank like the Ketron SD2. Those just load up and play. I have Sample Tank and I even bought the Onmisynth GM soundbank for it thinking it would work like any other GM synth but it doesn't. You still have to go into the ST window and set up each instrument on the appropriate midi channel that Biab is using for that instrument. ST lets you create preset banks but even that doesn't do much for you because one style Biab may want an acoustic bass with an electric piano and another style it wants a finger picked bass with an acoustic piano and the same for all the other instruments and it just becomes unwieldy, as least for me it does. Now, Biab will let you select a midi channel too but that doesn't change anything as far as this is concerned. Some people don't mind setting up the instruments for each song and if you want, you can use ST but for most of us we just want to select a style and hit play seamlessly and only a dedicated GM synth will do that.
RB is a different animal and most don't use it for immediate one time play like they do Biab. I will mix and match all kinds of different synths searching for the right combination of sounds. I use ST with RB a lot but not Biab.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I was gonna start a new topic, but this seems like a logical place to ask this question. (FYI, I am a BIAB and MIDI noob.)
On a scale of 0 to 10 -- with PC speaker sounds being a zero and my son's Roland Fantom X6 keyboard being a 10 -- where does the Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth (driver version 5.10) on my ancient computer fall?
Just curious.
-Schnaz
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The wavetable synth is the most basic MIDI synth since it is free with the OS. It is about the lowest available, since it is free with the operating system. You get the most current version by updating Windows. Not to pick on it, as there were much worse ones in the past, but currently it is the basic 'no frills' sound engine for MIDI in Windows. Try the free trial of Forte and see if you hear a difference. To some it may not make much of a difference. To others it may make a lot of difference. Depends on your needs. I do like my Fantom sound engine. 
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thiongs like Sampletank with BiaB are hit and miss. I use it there at times, but the problem is that Sampletank does not act as a GM set. So if you play the same genre of music you can set it up a four piece band and use the same instruments. Or drop the tune in Rb and you can have different setups in ST with ease. I personally love the sounds in Sampletank2
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Actually, you can use two softsynths at the same time ... or more ... you just need a VST sub-host. http://www.xlutop.com/html/products.htmlChainer is a plug-in everybody needs. Each instance of it has 10 columns and 10 rows. Each column can be set to any midi channel or 'all' channels. If you want to get really crazy you can even insert another instance of Chainer within itself. So, let's say you've now selected Chainer as you 'VST' synth. Of course it isn't ... but BIAB will accept it as one. Now you can open Chainer and start inserting softsynths and effects ... as many as your computer can handle. Of course it will still be only a stereo stream ... but a pretty potent one. You can place channel 1 to 'all' midi channels and then insert VSC or any other multitimbral plugin set to GM and everything will play with no further effort ... it's just the same as selecting VSC as you DXi synth. Now in channel 2 just insert you Philharmonik and set it, for example, to only the same midi channel as the BIAB 'Strings' ... can't remember the channel number off hand ... and not to 'all.' Now when you play you'll have GM strings augmented by Philharmonik. You can then place you SonikTank in another channel and, for example, just use a better guitar patch. Of course you can tweak this anyway you want ... don't have to use GM at all. Also, you don't have to worry about patches. Once you've set up your softsynths in Chainer, you can save a preset in Chainer that will call them all back including the saved patch for each individual synth or effect (the way you set it up the last time ... which you can of course change and save a differnt set up from in the future. Also, in each column you can place what ever type of effects, e.g., EQ, compression, chorus, etc., you want following where the synth is. Hey, want stacked sounds? Just place more than one synth in a row in Chainer and you can play them all for rich sounds. Prado
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks everyone for your help.
Steve
Steve
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
The wavetable synth is the most basic MIDI synth since it is free with the OS.
It is about the lowest available . . . .
Yeah. It's pretty cheesy.
Quote:
I do like my Fantom sound engine.
I can't believe the sound that thing makes. The abundance and quality of the patches are incredible.
Last edited by Schnazola; 02/05/10 07:18 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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That Chainer plugin peaked my interest.
However, moving to Realband at this point removes the overhead of that plugin altogether, as you can easily use multiple synths.
That's one reason the two programs work together so well.
Wavetable synth is servicable for getting the idea down. But when you want to get better MIDI sounds, there are more options available in RB, some free.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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PG Music Staff
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Hello Retake,
I have used SampleTank successfully with BB, but it does require a little tinkering in my experience, since as I recall it wasn't easy (or possible?) to get it to respond to Program Changes.
Some tips..
- Use the VSTi version of the synth, rather than the DXi. To do this, you'll need to Add VSTi Plugin in the DX/VST window. It will then show up as "<VSTi> name" at the bottom of the drop-down.
- To choose an instrument, first click a Part/Channel in the left side of the window, then find and double-click on the instrument that you want to load into that part in the browser window (right-hand side). For Band-in-a-Box, you will need to load in the instruments manually in the SampleTank window. You can ..I think.. save your loaded instruments as various presets so you don't have to do as much work each time.
- It might be possible to create an entire GM set of instruments and have it respond to program changes - I'm not entirely sure, but something to look into..
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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@rharv ... you'd find Chainer a treat in RB as well. It is not at all cpu intensive ... no more so than what you load in it would be anyway.
If you understand how Reason, Cubase, Reaper of others save 'device chains' where your synth and all plugins represent a virtual preset ... Chainer does this in spades.
So in RB ... or any DAW ... you can save your synth with an entire chain or effects of your choice to be loaded as a single VST.
It is without question the 'Swiss Army Knife' of VST plugins ... or maybe the virtual patch bay of VST.
Prado
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Steve
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All of that stuff with Chainer is great, Prado but it doesn't address the program changes problem with Biab. The deal is Biab will throw in a program change in the middle of the song depending on the style and/or substyles that are happening. Since Biab is doing this in real time, any synth that is loading large samples like any of the ones being mentioned here including all the other big name samplers like Kontatk, Halion, EMU X, whatever will completely lock up Biab because there is no time to load that sample. Read the other thread asking about higher banks in the Forte DXi. A dedicated GM soft synth will load the entire GM soundset into ram so they are instantly accessable by Biab. The key word here is instantly. If it even takes a half second to load a new sample in order to answer a program change, Biab will completely lock up. We have had detailed discussions here in the past about this. It would be good if Biab were to change instruments in the middle of the tune, it changes midi channels too so you could set that up but what happens is a particular style may switch from say a nylon rhythm guitar to a steel rhythm guitar when it gets to substyle C or whatever. That switch happens on the same midi channel and ST only has one instrument on any one channel but Biab has two in this example. A GM bank that has been loaded into ram will handle that with no problem.
When you're using a full DAW every instrument is on it's own track and midi channel so that's not a problem because those program changes are not happening in real time, you're setting that up ahead of time before you hit the play button.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Hardware MIDI synths are instantaneous...
*NO CPU load.
*Zero latency (well, under ~1mS and for all intents and purposes, that's zero)
*Very stable and robust. They aren't going to suddenly change due to software corruption, added programs, windows updates or any other of the seemingly endless myriad of problems that can pop up with software solutions.
*Very good sound. This, of course, depends on the synth, but these days, there are many good sounding hardware MIDI synths on the market. Ketron SD-2 sold by pgmusic is right up there among the best in that regard.
Look. I spent a small fortune on software solutions. Soundfonts. Then Gigastudio and Gigasamples ($$$). Then some Modeling synths. Would it ever end? Seemed like that as soon as I got one "next big thing" up and running halfway right, the "next big thing" was there to blow it out of the water.
I could have taken that money spent over the years and bought at least THREE Ketron SD-2s with it.
And not lost so much TIME.
And avoided hassle after hassle when trying to get music work done.
Think it out carefully before spending your hard-earned money.
--Mac
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I second Mac's post although being one to wait until something works, and works well, and gets endorsed I don't usually jump in. I usually use Mac'slab, once I get the endorsement, I open my wallet. I wish he's buy 3 or 4 windcontrollers and write an epistle. I'm stuck with reviews by people who already play one instrument or another and start with a bias.
What I need there is a comparison that's fair, does not come from a sax player, and explains how this fits with my resources, and expectations if I ever manage to iterate them.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Then I'm outta the running, John, as I can at least play some scales and stuff on the saxophone. An old girlfriend left one lying around one day and...
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
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- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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