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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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Even on Lukenbach Texas Waylon sings "Let's go to" that serves as a pickup on the "+ 4 +" at the end of that half spoken intro. Everything has a countdown. Whether it's click track or spoken, there's a countdown. It's done in studios but not on a track that is recorded. I have seen big band shows where the band leader gives 4 whole measures of countdown. When I played in swing band shows in college we got a double countoff. Try to play One O'Clock Jump without a good handle on the tempo. LOL!
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 271
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 271 |
Well, as I see it, you have a few options.
1. Everybody in on ONE. Yes, good musicians can and do start at the same time on the 1. That's kind of the default way to do it. Absolutely nothing wrong with that kind of start. There might be a couple of milliseconds difference in the actual hit on one, but not enough for anyone to notice.
2. Pick up notes. You hear this all the time too. In country..."and a 4 and" is an accepted way to kick off a song. The pick up can be the fiddles, steel, guitar, drums, and quite often, all of them combined. Yes... this is what I'm referring to. Especially the "couple of milliseconds difference" part. This is, and it's only my opinion, why a live band has a looser sound or feel than a machine band which is usually tightly quantized. I'm not saying that it makes any difference to the human ear per se... I think that it just makes for a looser sound all around. I don't mean that in a bad way. I don't mean that the band is terrible because they're all out of time. I just think it's a "human" thing. Humans can't quantize quite as tight as how a computer can. But as you say, we're talking milliseconds. Nobody in the bar is going to tell you that the band is no good because of this, just because they can't hear it. Neither can the band members. And of course, 99% of the time there are count ins and most always there are pickup notes that kick off the song. I like your reference to country music. Classic country and old rock and roll paid my bills for a LOT of years.  Like a lot of people here, once I have the main framework of my song done in biab it is promptly dropped into my daw and I go from there. A lot of the time I end up using just the bass and drums but there are also times where I may like the rhythm guitars or piano or background peddle steel. It is in my daw where the pickup notes are inserted and that takes the "every instrument starting at the exact same time" syndrome out of play. Especially when those pickup notes aren't quantized. Same goes for the middle solo and ending. I really didn't mean for my post to sound like it was a problem I was having with this. It just kind of struck me as I was sitting back listening to my song play in biab. It was just a muse. But the post sure has started some great conversation. I love this place!!! Bobby
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,057
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,057 |
That’s good we now know better what the situation is. What is your reaction to my observation that the guitar intentionally comes in early in the jazz styles? In other words, BIAB clearly does not need to have all instruments start together.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,492
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,492 |
There are several timing things that can go on, particularly with live music.
It's pretty common to use a pick-up into a chorus, swing and syncopation, ahead of the beat to give drive, behind the beat to give a more relaxed feel and that looseness bobby writes about that gives a natural feel to things.
For me personally, dead on the beat sounds robotic.
But there also has to be a consistency within the band. We need the beat timing even if we're going to play fast and loose with it.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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I think this may have been better stated by saying every PART starting at the same time than every NOTE. I am a stickler for timing and tuning and won't have those 2 things any way but perfect.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
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- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
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In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
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Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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