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When I open a BIAB file with RealBand I can't seem to change the patches to different sounds using my SD2.
Also a lot of the Bar Settings I inserted in BIAB don't seem to be working once I open the file in RB... (Some of the Settings are for changing patches etc... as well as for muting/unmuting instruments...)
I also never understood what are MSB & LSB for?
Dick
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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Understanding what MSB and LSB are for are very important to understanding how to change patch sounds. Read this tutorial on how to create a Patches.ini file for PowerTracks Pro Audio. It works the same way in RealBand as well. There should already be a patch map for the Ketron, so it's an easy matter of adding it to your Patches file, but this also should give you the basics of MSB and LSB, and may open a door to understanding on how to change the sounds. http://www.catsmeowcafe.com/patchesini.htmGary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Thanks Gary, I've quickly glanced over the link... I know now what MSB & LSB mean... although not quite sure how to use them yet. it would be helpful if i needed to write the patch ini, but..
I have already downloaded and Installed the patch.ini for the SD2 so I do get the good sounds made by it in RB & BIAB... My question is still stands: How to change the sounds to different patched from inside RB becasue right now, selecting the patch names from the window is not making any difference.
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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Dick,
In RealBand, to the Options Menu/Patch Names...
After you have installed the SD2 patch, you'll notice that the Ketron SD2 shows up in the list. Select it. Now, when you go to a track, and right click the Track Configure Window, you'll find that under the Patch Select Dialog will be a list, and the Ketron SD2 should be in the drop down menu, and selected. Now you can find your SD2 patches, and any variations of the patches, all of which you can select.
As to changing them in the MIDDLE of a song, you will need to select the point that you want the change, and put in a Program Change command using the MIDI Event Editor. You'll need to put in the MSB as one line, the LSB as the next line and the Program Change as the last line.
I may need to go into detail on that when I get home tonight.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Thanks Garry... I was thinking I would have to create a few melody tracks and have each track assigned to a different instuments if I want to have the melody played with different instruments in different choruses. So you're saying I should be able to keep one track for melody yet be able to change the instruments in various places, right? I'll wait for your post again after you get home. Thanks.
BTW, what are the Channels for... for the tracks? Because so far the only way I can have different patches for diff tracks/instruments is to have each instrument on a different channel -- even tho they are all on different tracks in RB... Pretty confusing!
Maybe it will all make sense later.
Last edited by Tchairdjian; 02/15/10 01:58 PM.
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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Garry, I checked the Options/patch names... and I don't see the SD2 on that list... yet I think I have installed it as I can see the light flickering on the SD when the music plays...
Edited: Sorry Garry... I just realized I had only copied the SD2 ".PAT" file into the BB folder but had NOT copied the Patches.ini file (that came witht Ketron Download) into the RealBand folder... Now I can see the SD2 is in the choices...
Last edited by Tchairdjian; 02/15/10 02:15 PM.
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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I was able to change patches in mid song using the Midi Event Editor.. that's Cool!
But still not sure about assigning channels and why, etc...
BTW, is there a way to transfer some of the harmony I'm using in BIAB into RB?
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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The new 'feature' in 2010 is supposed to let you size the window and drag and drop all the tracks into RealBand. I've not used it but it was a major part of the 2010 release.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
I was able to change patches in mid song using the Midi Event Editor.. that's Cool!
But still not sure about assigning channels and why, etc...
MIDI channels = the 16 channels of MIDI patches that your synth can handle.
Ch. 10 is usually reserved for Drums. So you have 15 other channels for Melodic Instrument patches.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the Tracks numbers. You can have a Track on track #48 yet have it assigned to play a Patch selected on MIDI channel 5. or 13. etc.
It is a good idea to use a separate MIDI channel for each Patch you want, to avoid confusion and problems.
Quote:
BTW, is there a way to transfer some of the harmony I'm using in BIAB into RB?
Harmonies can be exported using the MIDI file export and checking the appropriate box to include BiaB Harmonies with the export. They don't show up when you just "open" a BB song in RB, though. Maybe there is a way to do it that way and I don't know about it...
--Mac
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Thanks MAC. Makes sense now. I had sort of come to that conclusion re assigning separate MIDI channel for each Patch I want to play... Good to have you confirm it. So (just in case) I need more than 16 channels, is that possible somehow?
Thanks also for the trick on how to handle harmonies.
I am getting there. Eventually! LOL
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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Yes John, thank you. I was quite aware of that already too. It's a pretty good feature I agree.
Dick
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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Quote:
So (just in case) I need more than 16 channels, is that possible somehow?
While the SD-2 is capable of playing back 32 channels of MIDI, I have never gotten it to work with the average sequencing software like PT or RB without resorting to making myself jump through hoops of SYSEX programming fire. -- And even then with strange results sometimes.
I think you will find that 16 channels is more than enough.
But if you don't, consider converting some of your MIDI tracks to Audio tracks (by recording them from beginning to end as they play back through the Ketron) and then you can kill the corresponding MIDI track and channel and place another instrument there.
--Mac
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"What if I need more than 16 midi channels?"
That's where 'ports' come in. In Realband you can assign each track to one of 32 ports. Each port can have 16 MIDI channels. So you are not limited that way. The question becomes do you have the sondsources to run and a port to get the MIDI there. Softsynths eat up resouces with each instance it is run (see below).
Example - one machine I have has an SBLive and a Delta1010lt in it. Each of these has a MIDI out connection so they are usable 'ports'. I can select them in MIDI devices and use them as ports. The one at the top is Port 1, the next one down is Port 2 (in the MIDI devices list).
So you can connect different external hardware synths as long as you have the ports.
16 of the available MIDI ports are external options. You also have 16 softsynth options. So you can also load a different synth (or even a second or third instance of a synth) in these ports and free up another 16 channels. For instance you could assign another 'copy' or instance of the VSC DXi synth to port 17 (Softsynth Port 1) and then use all 16 cannels again on that synth. When using it as the default synth it loads automagically in the 16th DXi port (Port 32).
This is how you mix and match various software synths. Just know that your computer must be up to the job, as each synth eats 'X' amount of resources (Especially RAM) The Forte would eat a LOT of RAM if multiple instances are run. VSC not so much.
So there are plenty of flexible options.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Dick,
To expand on Mac's last post, you can create as many tracks as the software will allow. Since Real Band allows for 48 tracks, you could, conceivably, have 48 audio tracks, although that last one is going to be a pain.
To do this is fairly easy. Most synths today will only support 16 MIDI channels, so you can only play 16 channels at a time! That does not mean that you can not record more than 16 tracks, though.
Let's say that you want to record something like a swing band, where you might have five or six trumpets, five or six trombones, six or eight saxes, a few more woodwinds, piano, guitar, bass, drummer, etc. Now, let's say you get your piano, bass, guitar and drummer from Real Tracks. You import those four tracks as audio into Real Band. You can now record six trumpets, six trombones, and four saxes. That's sixteen instruments, the maximum of most synths that can be played at one time. If the synth allows, you can record each of them to a different patch, so you may have six different trombone sounds, and six different trumpet sounds, and four different sax sounds. Each one of those gets recorded to a separate audio track, giving you a total of 20 audio tracks.
Now, you can erase the MIDI tracks, having recorded them all to audio, and now record up to 16 more MIDI tracks, four more saxes, three clarinets, and whatever else you need (vibes, other percussion, etc.) Then, each of those can be recorded as audio, up to the maximum your software supports.
Gary
Last edited by Gary Curran; 02/15/10 05:09 PM.
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Wow, his head must be reeling with all those explanations and options .. each is true and a unique view on how to do what he asked.  Now he has to decide what to try first. To be honest, I usually get things to audio right away when in the studio. Live is another story. There are instances when the knowlegde of those ports are good to know. We used that feature live more than once. Sending the lights out one port, the guitar patch changes and sysex out another along with the synths patch changes and special controls for vocal processors too. Careful use of the 'thru' ports on the devices themselves made for seemingly limitless options.I really enjoyed that part of our shows; making the whole thing work with MIDI. You could be playing one device while another was loading a new patch set, and the light show was timed to the click at the same time. Good times. Is my 'geekiness' showing?
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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He only has the one SD2 at the moment to my knowledge.
Ports won't do him any good.
He should also stick to the one synth and the 16 channels for a bit longer yet IMO...
--Mac
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Bob, "Is my 'geekiness' showing?" Nah. Good engineers are *supposed* to be able to do all that. Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Thanks MAC, Garry & rHarv.
I think the 16 Channels would be more than enough for me too.... now that I understand how to change patches in a melody. My biggest worry was if I wanted to use a few instruments in a melody I thought I had to create several duplicate melody tracks -- one for each patch... and that wouldn't have left enough channels for the few other regular BIAB tracks (like Piano, Bass, Gutiar, strings, etc...)
So it's all cool now, although I REALY appreciate the extra lesson on the subject (being the engineer type, I am always curious) LOL. This stuff is AMAZING!
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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P.S. Just watched the YouTube video MAC... I guess I have the Knack too LOL! Too funny!
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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