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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2000
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I think this might be related to the 3/4 issue.
The melody was recorded in C, but when I transposed it up 1/2
step to D flat, it put in wrong notes and accidentals.
Anytime you transpose a melody (or any piece of music), the number of accidentals stays the
same. So if you start off with NO accidentals, then you will have none after it is transposed.
Otherwise, it is incorrect.
Interestingly enough, when it adds the unwanted notes, the transposed notes still play, although some are left out on the playback.
Any musically astute person will verify me on this issue.
Wm. S. Sinclair
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Expert
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Hi Bill,
This may help
Help files > Topics > Accidentals -
"Intelligent accidentals (chord context)
The sharps (#) and flats (b) that Band-in-a-Box uses on the melody notes are context sensitive to the chord names. For example, if you are in the key of Eb, and the chord is a E7, a G# note will show up as an G#, and not a Ab. This means that the notation accidentals will automatically show up correctly.
Enharmonics for Chord Tones are automatically based on the chord,
Use Chord Scale Enharmonics Option
Enharmonics for passing tones are based on the chord if the "Use chord scale for enharmonics" is set to true.
The program will automatically use the chord tones (1, 3, 5, and 7) in choosing its enharmonics. In the Notation Window Options box there is a setting to "Use chord scale for enharmonics." If this is checked, Band-in-a-Box will also use the enharmonics for the passing tones of the chord scale.
For example, on an F#7 chord in the key of Eb, the Ab note is part of the F#7 scale (as a G#, the 2nd of the scale), but is also part of the Eb key of the song. If you want to display based on the chord scale, setting "Use chord scale for enharmonics" will display the note as a G# instead of an Ab".
If this does not answer your problem (it works ok here) then do a return to factory settings to clear any corruption
Brian
BIAB - RealBand - 2022
Windows 10 64
Zoo computer with 7i processor- SSD 1TB -2TB HDD
Roland keyboards
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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It's worked fine for years.
It's just something you've done wrong.
The box says C
You choose D and tell it yes transpose the thing.
Then there is then enharmonics setting above. Not a lot of accidentals in most music used in Band in a Box but sometimes I use white out on the wife's leadsheet cause she's ain nawl about that, being an Honours Music grad.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
It's worked fine for years.
It's just something you've done wrong.
The box says C
You choose D and tell it yes transpose the thing.
.
Yes but one more step if your chords are correct and you change the key signature in the little box from C to what the song key is in reality then say no to transposing at this point. Now you have the correct key and the correct chords. Now do the transposing to a different key you require.
Best to always put the right key signature in the little box before entering the chords, notation etc. before transposing. If you forget you have to do it as above.
Cheers
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I think this might be related to the 3/4 issue.
The melody was recorded in C, but when I transposed it up 1/2
step to D flat, it put in wrong notes and accidentals.
Anytime you transpose a melody (or any piece of music), the number of accidentals stays the
same. So if you start off with NO accidentals, then you will have none after it is transposed.
Otherwise, it is incorrect.
Interestingly enough, when it adds the unwanted notes, the transposed notes still play, although some are left out on the playback.
Any musically astute person will verify me on this issue.
Sounds crazy, so I tried a simple Waltz styles (ie., zzwaltz.sty with its demo - Laughing Eyes -zzwaltz.sty demo --) and could not see any problem with the playback or the transposition by a half step. Key signature adjusted with no problem and the accidentals reflected the proper changes as needed. Do you have the current versions and have you "returned to factory settings" to be sure all is working on your end? 
By the way to insert a file for us to hear\see, you simply need to place the files on a website. Then insert the URL to the file using the Instant UBB Codes from the forum menu. Trick is the file has to have a URL! 
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I think I have narrowed down the problem.. It only occurs when a NEW melody is added, or one is superimposed over one of your demos. I played with your waltz demo "No Answer." I recorded 16 bars of a new melody over the existing track. First of all, even though I recorded only quarter notes, it wouldn't play them correctly. It did NOTATE them correctly, though. Then when I transposed the melody to D flat, a lot of spurious accidentals appeared. Since what I put in was diatonic, there should have been none. The accidentals caused pitch changes that weren't in the original melody. But the notes that were there PREVIOUSLY DID get transposed properly. The transposition problem occurs regardless of the key signature, but the playback problem seems to be related to 3/4 time. Apparently the issue is in the way recorded notes are stored. when you play a note from a keyboard, how does it know the correct representation? Does it HAVE to use the chord settings in the same bar? Even so, an enharmonic representation should still have the correct PITCH regardless, whether its B dbl sharp, D flat, or C sharp. In this case, it doesn't. Can I just upload a file to support@pgmusic? Otherwise, please suggest a URL hosting service.
Wm. S. Sinclair
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I did another experiment, after resetting back to factory defaults....
I put the worksheet in D flat, then recorded a diatonic melody. Then I transposed the worksheet to C major. More than half the notes had accidentals in front of them, and the pitches actually were different than they were supposed to. I am referring to the NOTATION window. The playback pitches appeared to be normal.
So the problem appears when recording a melody. Simply playing with a demo without recording something will not isolate the problem.
It probably has to do with the way recorded notes are stored.....
Wm. S. Sinclair
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Sounds like you aren't Transposing the chords as well as the Melody...
Maybe.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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PG Music Staff
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>>> Can I just upload a file to support@pgmusic? Otherwise, please suggest a URL hosting service. beta@pgmusic.com is the best address to use. support@pgmusic.com will also work, if you specify that they forward it to me, and reference this thread.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Actually, I think it transposes the CHORDS correctly, but is trying to keep the melody AS IT IS. But it doesn't ask you if you want to transpose both. A reasonable default is: when you transpose the work sheet, EVERYTHING should be transposed, since 99 percent of the time, that what one would do. A typical situation: I send a lead sheet to my vocalist friend, and she says "Hey, that's a tad too high, could you lower it a whole step?" Then I load in the song in say, E flat, and change the key in the little box to D flat. It then says "do you want to transpose the work sheet?" I then check YES. That's when all the trouble starts. Anyway, I yesterday uploaded a short song that illustrates the problem to: support@pgmusic.com.I'm wondering: If one says NO, would it still transpose the melody anyway? Then they would not be consistent...
Wm. S. Sinclair
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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>> A reasonable default is: when you transpose the
work sheet, EVERYTHING should be transposed.
Yes, and that is how it has worked for 21 years.
You transpose by clicking on the key signature box, and then answering YES to transpose. Everything will then transpose. (if you answer NO, then nothing will transpose, just the key signature name will change).
( do not use the menu item Melody-Transpose, since that would only affect the melody)
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Peter;
I do it exactly as you said I should.
No problem with an IMPORTED melody, like from a MIDI file.
But when I RECORD the melody, strange and weird things happen when I transpose
it.
Did anyone get the demo song I uploaded?
Wm. S. Sinclair
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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>> Did anyone get the demo song I uploaded?
Bill,
Yes. The track that you recorded had a bunch of extra notes recorded to it, which is causing the problem. I would expect that it is a malfunctioning hardware issue at your end (bad MIDI keyboard, or MIDI cable, or interface conflict)
You can see the issue if you press the # button on the notation window., That shows you the list of notes recorded.
SInce you recorded a C scale, we expect to see C D E F G A, but instead we see C DDD E F# F# F# etc. , essentailly bursts of bogus notes with zero durations. So transposing it works, but it is still a messed-up track to begin with.
Note: I'm assuming that the issue is at your end, since recording works fine here, and there have been no other reports about it not working. Others can correct me if I am wrong about that.
What type of MIDI interface and MIDI hardware controller keyboard are you using?
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Well, I did check on my end -
But I don't get ANY bogus notes where I record in 4/4.
The only bogus notes are from trying to record a waltz.
Actually, why are some of the durations 65535 ticks long?
And why wouldn't it ignore or reject notes of ZERO duration?
Anyway, if there was a problem on my end, wouldn't I see it no matter what the time signature is?
When I record the melody, it tells me that there are less than 50 notes recorded, far less than the MIDI output shows (in 3/4 time).
Wm. S. Sinclair
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Quote:
>>
What type of MIDI interface and MIDI hardware controller keyboard are you using?
Still interested in the answer to this question since it appears this may be the source of the error. Just wondering if you have any unusual gear?
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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No problem with waltz recording here, or reported by others.
>> Anyway, if there was a problem on my end, wouldn't I see it no matter what the time signature is?
If it's an intermittent issue, no.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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I've been using BIAB for almost 15 years now and have never had any of the problems you're experiencing. You must have some corrupted files or malfunctioning hardware. The only problems I've had are ones I caused myself. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Bill, I just recorded a waltz using "Waltz" in the 24 in-built styles and it worked fine for me. Notation, playback and transposition all ok. (I recorded in C and transposed to Db.) What kind of sound card and midi connection do you have? I have just found myself wondering if it might be that the "transpose" option is set for saxophone or trumpet, etc. To check this, go to Opt >> Preferences >> Notation.The "Transpose" button in the middle of the pop-up box should be set to <any> and the "transpose" box below that button should be set to "0" for concert pitch. This may or may not be the problem but it's worth checking. Another thing that I'd check is the "overdub" option when recording. If this is activated, midi data will add to what already exists. I have always found that, prior to recording, it's a good idea to kill all existing data (on the uppermost menu Melody >> Edit Melody Track >> Kill Entire Melody). I've found it best to save the song as a different file name before doing this, though, as I can then always return to the original if needed. Regards, Noel
Last edited by Noel96; 04/20/10 12:11 PM.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Well, I always made sure that it was transposing to the key I specified. If that transpose amount was set wrong it would try to transpose to a different key.
Even if it transposed to the wrong key, the pattern of accidentals should still be CONSISTENT with the key signature, right?
For instance, when I go to G flat, it specifies a C flat (which should have NO accidentals) as B natural. At least in that case the pitch is correct, but it puts an accidental there where none was originally. The flats are: Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, and Cb.
As far as overdub, I always killed the melody track before I re-recorded it. The extra notes only appeared when I asked it to transpose what was ALREADY recorded.
I'm using a Roland Juno-G for the KB input, with the USB-MIDI mode. A lot of synthesizers nowadays use that, rather than the old serial 38.4 Kbaud interface. It's a lot faster with USB of course, since that's 400 Megabaud.
I think the problem may be "stutter notes" from the keyboard. Even though the notes are zero duration, the recording algorithm stores them anyway. And then it gets confused with I try to transpose what was recorded.
For some reason Finale does seem to record the melody correctly, even with the stutter notes, so I can use that and then import the MIDI file.
Wm. S. Sinclair
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Take a look at Opt., Preferences, RecFilter and try some experiments.
Many programs have the ability to filter out part of the incoming MIDI data. With my wind controller, for example, a storm of useless transient MIDI messages is sent, and not just for notes. In my notation program (Encore) I can filter out some of these messages.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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