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Journeyman
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I got a catalogue from Sweetwater and was browsing through the mic section. To me an expensive mic would be in the $300 range. They had mics listed in the $5000 range. What could a $5000 mic do that a $300 mic couldn't? I can't see what could be so expensive in that little area of a microphone. Diamonds maybe? Gold parts? But I don't think diamonds and gold could affect the sound. Sort of like Waves plugins, I guess. Their price is astronomical but can EQ from a $300 set of plugins be that much different from a $5000 or $10000 ones? Beats me. But I won't be purchasing the high priced spread!
"The desire for fame is the last infirmity cast off even by the wise."
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The only way to know what works best recording you is to do a microphone shoot-out. Line them all up and play into each one, or better, record all of them at the same time onto different tracks and then solo each track to compare. I've done that periodically in the studio.
It depends a lot on what is being recorded. I like the sound of an old RCA ribbon mic on my flugelhorn, so I use that in the studio when they have one, and I have a small ribbon for home use. On some other instrument or voice, that same mic may sound terrible and a $100 Shure SM-57 or something else might be the trick.
Plus, the mic is only part of the story. There's the preamp, the mic placement, the mic cable, the quality of the DA converters, the ears of the engineer, the room acoustics, and some luck thrown in. The sound can't be any better than the weakest link. But you can learn to make inexpensive equipment sound pretty good if you make the effort and develop the skills.
With the exception of the Neumann line, most home studio mics top out at closer to $1,200.
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Well, there is definately a point of diminishing returns. However, your mic is the source that everything else will use, including those waves plugins. So you do want a good mic. A couple points- a good mic for one thing is not necessarily a good mic on another. Our honored member Harvey Gerst once wrote a nice long piece on this, interacting with questions from the audience; I'll try to find it and post the link. That said, the next device in line, your preamp, will likely make more difference. It has a lot to do with the sound and signal you get. This is said often, but needs to be said more often. A nice mic thru a crappy preamp will not out-perform a lesser mic thru a good preamp. I don't have any $5000 mics, so my opinion may not be that impressive. Looks like this may be a good starting point for Harvey's Primers- http://yourfriendpaul.com/MicPrime/MicrophonePrimer.htmlThanks to Harvey for sharing that so generously.
Last edited by rharv; 04/21/10 02:34 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Charlie,
I use a Shure KSM 27 here for my vocals. That, coupled with my Presonus Tube Pre, my vocals are much cleaner and have a nice, warmth to em. Now, if I can just sing the correct notes, LOL
Trax
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Let me first try to put this into terms that I'll bet Charlie can grok: What's the difference between a '59 Burst Les and an Epiphone Burst reissue? Or how about the difference between a Martin and an import flattop? Quote:
I can't see what could be so expensive in that little area of a microphone.
Quite often it is the technology.
In many cases, it is also the labor. The very best of capsules are still hand built, although CAD/CAM has made some inroads.
As to whether or not you *need* one, it is unlikely, considering the sound device in use to record to PC, but if you were inside a Nashville studio day in and day out, the amortization is indeed quite affordable and, when coupled with a mic preamp equal to the task, assures pristine capture of the artist. And that's what its all about.
Just be thankful that we live in a time where we can indeed purchase those three hundred dollar equivalents, man.
--Mac
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My sister is a studio vocalist for choral arrangements for Beckenhorst press and gets to sing into all kinds of expensive mics. Here's a crummy quality .mp3 file with her on solo right at the beginning: http://www.beckenhorstpress.com/audio/1853.mp3I have this song on CD, much better quality, but I can get pretty close to the fancy studio setups with proper care and feeding of the acoustic environment, but my noise floor is still pretty high in comparison. It helps when the singer has pipes like my sis and when they know how to work the mics. You should hear her rock the R&B! But this gig pays the bills for her. That choir you hear is not that many singers. I can pick out Heather's voice in the soprano sections all throughout this CD.
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Journeyman
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Thanks for all the insight, guys. Will keep in mind when I buy my next mic. I have an Oktava MK-319 bought from Guitar Center in '03. Don't even use a pre-amp. There may be one in my Behringer Eurorack UB802. Probably need to get one and a new mic as well.
"The desire for fame is the last infirmity cast off even by the wise."
Cornelius Tacitus
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Every mic channel on your mixer has a preamp.
Otherwise you wouldn't be hearing much from the mic.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I remember that Guitar Center sale on Oktava. I have two matched small diaphragm condensers, and they are really quite good. There was one large diaphragm condenser at the time; maybe that's what you have. Surprisingly good stuff for the money.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Journeyman
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rharv, I thought so but wasn't going to swear to it. I know I use the Phantom Power on it. Great URL (Harvey's) by the way. Will keep that one.
Matt, it seems to be good. Gave $99 as I recall. I have the large diaphragm condenser one. I've had it so long that I'm thinking it may be very dirty inside although I don't use it that often. Record a few songs a year on it.
"The desire for fame is the last infirmity cast off even by the wise."
Cornelius Tacitus
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Charlie, if you store the mic in a case or bag -- or even inside a closed cabinet or drawer -- and it has only been "out" when recording, it is very unlikely that the diaphragm has gotten too dirty to render a proper representation of itself.
--Mac
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That microphone primer is interesting and detailed.
About halfway down he discusses Sensitivity and Max SPL. For condenser mics or others with built-in preamps, another spec of interest could be noise floor.
Dunno if all premium expensive mics would necessarily have higher Sensitivity and lower Noise Floor, but if you go looking for a Sensitive low-noise mic, you can expect to pay more money.
If most home recording is done pretty close to the mic, then the Sensitivity and Noise Floor is not real important because you have a good loud signal that will help swamp a noisy mic or mic preamp.
But for the folks in the situation of needing to make squeaky-clean recordings of not-very-loud instruments, and at a fairly long miking distance-- Those folks will inevitably have to spend the big bucks for very low-noise mics and mic preamps. For instance, stereo-miking a string quartet from 8 feet distance-- Them violins ain't very loud, and that is a long distance away, relatively speaking. Often you don't get the right sound close-miking such things, and you have to move the mics back.
So if you have an otherwise nice sounding mic and preamp that is a little noisy, that string quartet recording is gonna be noticeably noisy. But the same mic right up in a vocalist's face or a foot away from a loud-played acoustic guitar, might make nicely low noise tracks.
Am ignorant of mics, but years ago was studying the Audio Technica mic line. AT sells some fairly inexpensive condenser mics which are remarkably flat and have good neutral accurate tone to my ear. Then AT sells a-lot-more-expensive mics that are equally flat, and probably do not have raw tone much better than their 'cheap' ones. But the specs on the expensive mics brag slightly higher sensitivity and slightly lower noise floor. It is only a difference of a few dB, worth hundreds of dollars difference.
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Good points James. When you need a wide dynamic range, also, is when the noise floor will come into play as signal-to-noise in the quiet parts.
I thought that article was very in-depth too, and appreciate Harvey sharing all that knowledge with us. He seems to know quite a bit more about the subject than a lot of us.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Mac, if only I would do that. I just leave the mic on my desk until it's used again. Probably need to get my air compressor and give it a good cleaning.
"The desire for fame is the last infirmity cast off even by the wise."
Cornelius Tacitus
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Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
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Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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