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Hey community..., my first post here. Been a devout user of BiaB-Win since 1999, so I'm actually quite surprised that I've only just run into this issue yesterday (currently using BiaB 2009 Ultra on a 32 bit WinXP Pro machine). I'm up againsts a deadline for an Off-Broadway show that starts final tech rehearsal (when you add the music, etc.) on Wednesday July 21, and I've already searched the forum & read the Help file ad nauseum, so here goes: As the subject says, this has to do with using rests in combination with exempted instruments..., you know..., like "E.bdp". I've never had any problem with this in the past, but I guess I just never ran into this particular situation. What I have found is, that if the chord in question is one that has a specific note designated as the Bass Root note (like: "E/F#") and I try to create a rest with exempted instruments (like: "E/F#.bdp") then I run into problems. Specifically, for example: In a regular 4/4 song, if the chord is one with a designated Bass Root like that, and is entered once for two (2) beats, say beats 1 & 2, everything works fine..., however..., if I enter one of those types of chords along with another second chord, say on beats 3 & 4 (you know..., 2 chords in one chord block area separated by a comma like: "E/F#.bdp,E/B.bdp", or even "E/F#.bdp,E.bdp"), then BiaB refuses to accept the entry and instead gives me "E/F#.bdp,E/B.bd", or "E/F#.bdp,E.bd". **Note the missing exempted instrument from the second chord.** It wouldn't be so much of an issue (albeit, still wierd) if this was only a display/max-charachters anomaly but, unfortunately, what also happens is that the instruments which are not exempted from the rest in the manner that BiaB was willing to accept the chord entry (the Piano in the above example) drop out and do not play for the beat(s) in question. I'm attempting to attach a graphic to illustrate the issue below (I'm not sure if it will work or not). Here:  Like I said, I'm up against a deadline so can some "BiaB guru" help a girl out?? Thanks in advance. Ciao, Rina <3
"When the going gets weird..., the weird turn pro."
-- Hunter S. Thompson
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Rina,
1st things first -- Have you visited the PGMusic Support page, located and downloaded the last Update to your version of BiaB? (Help-About will tell you the actual version update you are running, but if in doubt, just download and install the latest update, which will install all available fixes up to that point) always a good idea.
2nd, it may just be that your Chord Grid does not have enough room to show the full series of letters after the dot. You can confirm that by RightClicking on the Bar and choosing "Chord Settings" and see what the upper window slot says for each chord. If still truncated, try entering the entire string from there, just to see what happens.
HTH,
--Mac
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Mac...
Thanks for your reply.
I probably should have been more specific about the version I'm running. It is Biab Ultra 2009.5(Build 287), which I think is about as up-to-date as BiaB 2009 can get.
I also should have mentioned that (as crazy as it sounds) I even tried changing my chord sheet font preference to a *really* tiny fontsize in a desperate attempt to get this to work.
I just tried the "Chord Settings" thing and, strangely, if I do that on beats 3 & 4 described above only the first chord of the two(2) chords is shown in the pop-up window no matter where I click. Also, entering the whole chord text string (both chords) from that window, with or without a comma, effects no change to the chord text on the chord grid.
Hmmmmm..., confusing.....
Any other ideas , anyone??
Rina
xo
Last edited by jestlykme; 07/18/10 03:29 PM.
"When the going gets weird..., the weird turn pro."
-- Hunter S. Thompson
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It appears Rina has ruled out a "visible characters" anomaly for the dropping instruments. Quote:
It wouldn't be so much of an issue (albeit, still wierd) if this was only a display/max-charachters anomaly but, unfortunately, what also happens is that the instruments which are not exempted from the rest in the manner that BiaB was willing to accept the chord entry (the Piano in the above example) drop out and do not play for the beat(s) in question.
<3
I'm afraid I can only suggest some trouble shooting ideas since I can't offer a immediate solution. If you move the entire arrangement to RB you can than actually see what you say you are hearing. This is one reason I use RB for more complex "worked-out" arrangements where I want instruments coming and going for selected bars (I know if is supposed to be doable in BIAB, but I also have seen these issues where the instruments don't always completely behave).
Good Luck.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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...-------------------- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- Hunter S. Thompson Boy, that NYC off broard-way scene must be one tough place... 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hello Rina. Great avatar with graphics; didn't know the PG site accepted that.
I was able to duplicate your problem, but I think there is a work-around.
Try using right-click, Chord Settings. You can see in the dialog that Rest Only, All Except shows all the right instruments checked in the first chord, and only some in the second, BUT you can check them yourself in the second chord and it appears to hold. Note that I'm using version 2010,5, and it works here on that version. Try it on yours.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Quote:
Boy, that NYC off broard-way scene must be one tough place...
LOL.
Actually, the theatre scene is pretty gratifying. It's the TV/Cable & Commercial Jingle gigs that always make me feel **really-slutty**. One of my Prof's @ Berklee once told me: "Once you graduate just bend-over, spread-'em, and hold that position until you die, but at least make sure you get paid well while you do it...."
Truth is..., I just like Hunter Thompson.
R.
<3
"When the going gets weird..., the weird turn pro."
-- Hunter S. Thompson
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Try using right-click, Chord Settings. You can see in the dialog that Rest Only, All Except shows all the right instruments checked in the first chord, and only some in the second, BUT you can check them yourself in the second chord and it appears to hold. Note that I'm using version 2010,5, and it works here on that version. Try it on yours.
Thanks for the feedback Matt....
However..., wierd but true..., as I said in the Post: [Re: Mac] #282208 above:
Quote:
I just tried the "Chord Settings" thing and, strangely, if I do that on beats 3 & 4 described above only the first chord of the two(2) chords is shown in the pop-up window no matter where I click. Also, entering the whole chord text string (both chords) from that window, with or without a comma, effects no change to the chord text on the chord grid.
For reasons that I don't understand, "Chord Settings" just refuses to display/access the second chord in the pair.
Still baffled,
R.
"When the going gets weird..., the weird turn pro."
-- Hunter S. Thompson
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Try a Return to Factory Settings under the Opts menu, it may be that something in one of BB's volatile files has become courrupted. That's always a good thing to try when BB doesn't do something it is supposed to do.
You may also have to hit New and start the songfile over from scratch, too, after the Return to Factory, -- if the songfile became corrupted.
I don't think this is a program bug or we surely would have found it or heard about it by now.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Try a Return to Factory Settings under the Opts menu, it may be that something in one of BB's volatile files has become courrupted. That's always a good thing to try when BB doesn't do something it is supposed to do.
I didn't try that, but what I **did** do is get out my laptop (I have BiaB installed on it also for rehearsals, etc.). I had the identical experience trying it there, and the laptop would not likely have the exact same 'corruption' problem as my destop computer.
Quote:
I don't think this is a program bug or we surely would have found it or heard about it by now.
I'm pretty sure now that this is a program 'limitation' rather than a 'bug'.
By virtue of a lot of trial and error I have determined that there is a fifteen(15) character limit in any given chord entry box (16 including the comma). Not a problem by and large, until you have a combination of two(2) complex, multi-character chords both of which need rests with instrument exemptions. Then you run out of space very quickly.
It would be really nice if there were some way to override this limitation by manually editing one of the many "*.ini" or other BiaB config files (with Notepad++ or the like), or even the Windows Registry (Regedit), but I'm sure that is probably not possible.
Oh well..., I guess this is something for the BiaB 'Suggestion Box' (Hear that, Mr. Gannon?).
If it is fixed in future versions, a patch for us Non-2010 users would be a very cool thing to do (**hint-hint...**).
Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
Rina
xo
"When the going gets weird..., the weird turn pro."
-- Hunter S. Thompson
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Trying it out on the laptop was a good move.
Unfortunately, though, I'm fresh out of ideas to try now...
Maybe contacting pgmusic support directly may shed light in time for you.
Or maybe you can do with some sort of workaround.
At any rate, BREAK A LEG,
--Mac
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Been on the road, and am just getting back to this thread.
Rina, I did not see that you had tried the Chord Settings dialog, as I was experimenting to verify your problem before I replied and we cross-posted.
As the Chord Settings dialog does provide a work-around on my system, perhaps a short-term fix is to upgrade to version 2010.5. If you do not have too many occurrences of this problem (i.e., the same chord lots of places) it would not be too difficult to fix them manually.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Are you trying to enter the chords directly into the bar or using right click/Edit current chord?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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PG Music Staff
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Hi Rina,
>> E/F#...bdp,E/B...bdp
You can probably get around that problem (a really long chord entry getting truncated) as follows:
1. Enter chord edit mode (this is done by right click and choose "Edit Current Chord" (or Ctrl-F2). Then type the chord that you want and it accepts longer entries than the regular chord mode.
BTW, that mode supports copy and paste, so it might be useful to repeat big chord names like "E/F#...bdp,E/B...bdp" in other bars.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Quote:
Hi Rina,
>> E/F#.bdp,E/B.bdp
You can probably get around that problem (a really long chord entry getting truncated) as follows:
1. Enter chord edit mode (this is done by right click and choose "Edit Current Chord" (or Ctrl-F2). Then type the chord that you want and it accepts longer entries than the regular chord mode.
BTW, that mode supports copy and paste, so it might be useful to repeat big chord names like "E/F#.bdp,E/B.bdp" in other bars.
There you go Rina, straight from the horses mouth  . However, I do believe Matt gets the prize for first response. 
Now let us know how it works for you.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Rina, I too love your avatar. It totally got me while I was reading your post. I saw movement out of the corner of my eye and looked at the picture and thought, that's not the same picture and then it changed! Nice one.
Can't help you with your problem, just making a comment about the Hunter Thompson quote. It's great, everybody uses it in every music forum in the world now and I get emails from musician friends who put it in their sigs. The thing is he never said it. This is the actual quote:
"The TV business is uglier than most things. It is normally perceived as some kind of cruel and shallow money trench through the heart of the journalism industry, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs, for no good reason."
Somewhere along the line someone decided to use some literary license and modify it for the music business, it made it's way onto the web and that's it.
Here's my favorite actual music related quote from him found on brainyquote.com
"I feel the same way about disco as I do about herpes." Right on.
The internet is a wonderful thing, you just can't believe everything you read. My experience is if some quote or article you see on the net happens to be exactly, perfectly on point for your favorite subject du jour, it's fake.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Wow!! I never dreamed I would get a response from **the** PeterGannon..., the ultimate BiaB Sensei !!!! Now that I know you occasionally read these posts let me just say that, since its inception, BiaB has been the **greatest app ever**..., especially for people like me who (in order to get paid) need to churn-out a large number of compositions in a never-ending variety of styles and, usually, within a really tight schedule/time-frame. My usual "workflow" (mostly out of habit since 1999 -- before the RealBand days) is to use BiaB to create/generate the initial composition and then export/import it into SonarPE to edit and record additional final (more human) tracks. As BiaB has evolved over the years I find myself having to edit/record in Sonar **less and less** since, **more and more**, the original BiaB tracks are turning out to be "keepers". Kudos to you and the Biab team!! All that being said, back to the issue at hand: Quote:
1. Enter chord edit mode (this is done by right click and choose "Edit Current Chord" (or Ctrl-F2). Then type the chord that you want and it accepts longer entries than the regular chord mode.
So actually, "Edit Current Chord" is the method that I have consistently been using to make the entries and, while it is true that there does not seem to be any character-length limitation when I am typing in the entry that way, once I hit "Enter" the entry then gets truncated resulting in what I have described above. Basically, the "Edit Current Chord" entry/blank accepts all of the characters but, ultimately, BiaB itself does not.
Therein lies my problem.
Thanks again to all respondents.
Rina
<3
"When the going gets weird..., the weird turn pro."
-- Hunter S. Thompson
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
The thing is he never said it. This is the actual quote:
"The TV business is uglier than most things. It is normally perceived as some kind of cruel and shallow money trench through the heart of the journalism industry, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs, for no good reason." ....
....The internet is a wonderful thing, you just can't believe everything you read. My experience is if some quote or article you see on the net happens to be exactly, perfectly on point for your favorite subject du jour, it's fake.
Being a big HT fan, I have his whole anthology in hardback. Actually I got the sig quote along with many others from a short paperback book of Hunter Thompson quotables in which the quote was identical to my sig, except that it actually said: "The *entertainment* business is a cruel...." etc.. And here I thought that I was being original and clever by changing it to: "The *music* business....". Oh well....
Quote:
Here's my favorite actual music related quote from him....
...."I feel the same way about disco as I do about herpes."
How true..., how true.... That one's in the paperback, too, and is also one of my favs. I think that my real personal favorite is:
"When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro."
Gee, I *love* thinking I'm **sooooo esoteric**...., LOL.
Ciao,
Rina
xo
"When the going gets weird..., the weird turn pro."
-- Hunter S. Thompson
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I realize there is truncation when you are in the Edit Current Chord mode, but did you try this method that I suggested earlier? Use the checkboxes? I didn't care what showed when typing, only what the checkboxes showed.
Try using right-click, Chord Settings. You can see in the dialog that Rest Only, All Except shows all the right instruments checked in the first chord, and only some in the second, BUT you can check them yourself in the second chord and it appears to hold. Note that I'm using version 2010,5, and it works here on that version. Try it on yours.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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On my tests, using BB 2010, you can use the "Edit Current Chord" to enter those large chords (more than 16 characters in a single cell), and it works. You should enter them on the notation window, so you can see them better (set it to 2 bars per screen in notation options).
** Re-visiting ** the "Edit Current Chord" will truncate it to 16, so you shouldn't revisit those long chords after you enter them, unless you want to edit them again, and add the missing characters.
BTW, another approach to this, that would likely be faster, is to just type the chords that you want without the rests..
ie)
E/B,E/F# E/D,E,G# E/B,E/F# E/D,E,G#
then, in a different bar (eg. bar 1 beat 1) , type one chord with the rests like this E...bdpg
Then choose Edit-Copy Rests, and copy from bar 1, beat 1 to the area that you want to have the rests applied to all chords. That would likely save you some typing!
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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