PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Would User Styles Created on BIAB 10, Work on Earlier Versions??

Hi,
just wondering if a user " midi " track style created on BIAB 10.5 work on an earlier version of BIAB.
Unfortunately I can't test it, I threw my early versions of BIAB out.

I can see no reason why it shouldn't work.. have you just tried it or is there a reason you need to know before trying it?

Of course unless the style you've selected does not exist on the previous version. If so convert to midi and import it...depending on how old a version you are using it may not have the ability to make a style based on the midi file.

I've been writing aftermarket styles since version 4 (when they were first introduced back in the early 1990s) and if my memory serves me well:

Depends if you used "live drums" or not. The drum grid is backwards compatible, but the full MIDI set with resolution of 120ppq is not. The "live drums" feature came out in version 7.

I can't think of anything else in V10 that isn't backwards compatible at least to version 5. V4 had only 3 instruments.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

And when we talk about versions, please be careful to be specific. BIAB 10 is not the same as BIAB 2010. PGMusic started using the year two-thousand naming convention starting with 2004.

I started using BIAB with version 8, and then progressed through 9, 10, 11, 12, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007(.5), 2008(.5), 2009(.5), and 2010(.5)

So version 8 is different from 2008, version 9 is different from 2009, etc.

For those of us who have been around awhile, saying version 10 in the subject line when you mean 2010 can get confusing, because we've used both.

Hi Guys,
thank you all.
I do mean BIAB 2010.5.
I'd forgotten how the numbering system worked, even though I've been an on & off user since it first came out for the Atari.

Only reason I'm asking is, I'm planning on converting the odd keyboard style across to BIAB, instead of vice versa.
Don't know how succesfull I'd be, but I'm always happy to share.
Mainly checking to see if they'd work with an earlier version of BIAB as most keyboards aren't backward compatible.

2010 should be backwards compatible for quite a few versions as long as you don't do multi-styles.

If you end up with something great, and feel like you want to make a few bucks, let me know and I'll sell them for you and split the money fairly.

I sell BiaB products by Roy Hawkesford, David Bailey and Sherry Mayrent and I'm always looking for more people to "join the club".

Contact me off-list if interested.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Hi Bob,
thank you for the offer.
I'm more familiar with various brand keyboard styles than I am with Biab & how they're created. Thought it might be interesting to see if they could be adapted to BIAB.
Unfortunately I'm 2 instrument tracks short in BIAB ( 3 if I include the percussion track ) It may make them a bit bland. The Intro's & Endings that give the keyboards they're pizzaz, can't be used either.
I only fiddle round with keyboard styles as a hobby, some are conversions, some are made up of bits & pieces of various styles, hence I give them away.
Just want to try something different. I've worked my way thru most of the keyboards, yamaha, technics , roland , ketron , korg. BIAB is about the only style creation process I haven't tried.
It may just be a bit too different. Haven't given up yet though haahaa.

I've successfully converted Korg and Technics styles to BiaB. According to the feedback from my customers, I have done a good job at it (and since they come back for more, I think they are sincere in their comments).

Of course they aren't carbon copies of the keyboard styles. BiaB and arranger keyboards don't "think" about the process in the same way. BiaB has the advantage of entering the chords before you hit the play button, so it can use some "artificial intelligence" to create a more musical background.

It takes a lot of forethought, some creativity, and a bit of compromise to reduce a 7 instrument style to 5 instruments.

But by using BiaB's advantage, there are things you can do to make up for the instrument deficiency by adding more original patterns (being careful to make them compatible) and by using the masks assign them to specific context situations. This results in less repetition and IMHO a more musical, band-like accompaniment background.

For examples, check out the mp3 demo files on these disks:

• http://www.nortonmusic.com/style4.html
• http://www.nortonmusic.com/style5.html
• http://www.nortonmusic.com/style18.html
• http://www.nortonmusic.com/style19.html
• http://www.nortonmusic.com/style20.html
• http://www.nortonmusic.com/style21.html

I also modify the intro/ending files to be compatible with the BiaB styles but leave them as MIDI files so people can either use them in Real Band or export BiaB as a MIDI file and use them in the sequencer of their choice.

This of course is one of the great advantages of using MIDI styles, you can edit the output to your heart's content, turning the very good output of BiaB into something truly excellent.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Thanks Bob,
for all the info.
Maybe next time I should do a bit more research first before I open my mouth & put my foot in it. haahaa
I hadn't considered doing Intro's & Endings as midifiles & adding them in a sequencer.
I suppose the main thing when cutting down the number of tracks is to keep the main rhythm going and leave out the ones that are there to just tizzy the style up.
I'll go through the demo's & check out your site.

Do you use a particular DXI to base your styles on? I've ended up with Coyote Forte, CoyoteWT & Cakewalk TTS-1 & a soundfont player. Decided against using my Korg & Yamaha keyboards as a soundsource for BIAB, I want to use a soundsource more users are likely to own, plus have the portability of just using my laptop instead of having to be midied up to my keyboards.

Sort of got used to the simple Yamaha format, 1 pattern per variation. My Korg has up to 6 patterns per variation, but not many of the styles make use of the ability.
Just have to study how BIAB picks it's patterns & how these masks work. Something to keep me busy.
If I ever work it out, and come up with something worthwhile, I'll get in touch.

Thank you so much for your input.

When converting the 7 instrument styles to the 5 instrument BiaB limitation, I sometimes combine two parts,
sometimes leave out one that seems to duplicate or be irrelevant, sometimes use one part for the A substyle and another for the B (or C&D), and make other "artistic" decisions.

Also, I try to take advantage of the BiaB's "engine" to make the styles more musical than the keyboard counterparts, using the BiaB StyleMaker masks, macros and other tools. I also add more drum rolls and sometimes ignore the ones that came with the keyboard style, if they don't work well with BiaB. Like the 1940s Harold Arlen / Johnny Mercer song, I accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative.

So in the end, my styles are definitely not carbon copies of the keyboard style (that would be impossible anyway) but instead styles that have been inspired by the keyboard styles.

When writing styles I use the VSC that comes with BiaB. True, it's not the best sounding synth, but that's the beauty of working with it. If I can get my styles to sound decent with the VSC, they will sound even better on a good synth.

I've also done the demo files on either the VSC or a SoundBlaster card (I used the SB on the older styles - before the VSC was available). I could use a better synth, but the way I figure it is that many people are probably using the VSC. If I made the styles sound better by using a better synth, those people will be disappointed with their purchase. On the other hand, if the user has a better synth, he/she will be delighted with the purchase.

I also do my demos with the first pass through BiaB. Sure I could run it through a dozen or so times and pick the take where BiaB chose the best patterns, but I just don't feel good doing that.

Now when I play for my own enjoyment, or when I make backing tracks for my duo, I don't use soft synths at all. I have an array of hardware synths and samplers, and I choose the most appropriate sound of each for every individual track.

I have nothing against soft synths, but I prefer hardware. The synth that I bought when I was using the Atari computer is still working, and hasn't needed an upgrade or anything else. It still has a couple of stellar sounds on it. I don't know of any software device that worked on the computers of the 1980s that still work today.

Plus there is only about 5ms latency (for all practical purposes no latency) and I can mix and match that unit with all my newer modules and synths with no noticeable latency at all. I think the Akai sampler has the greatest latency at 6ms. So when mixed together, they sound together with for all practical purposes equal latency.

One more thing. They are all plug-and-play. I can move them to another computer simply by moving the MIDI or USB cable, no installation disks to worry about, no stress on the computer's CPU, and no problems.

Of course there is more than one right way to make music.

To read how I use BiaB to make my band's backing tracks, go to:
http://www.nortonmusic.com/backing_tracks.html

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Thanks again Bob,
the Roland vsc unfortunately won't run on my Win 7. I'll have to use Coyote.
Just to get used to how it all works, I'm fiddling round with mix n matching style parts from some of the BIAB styles, before trying it with keyboard styles, I'm hoping it's a good way of working out how the masks etc work.
The guitar macro's sound interesting. I've got a similar sort of function on my Korg PA800, in that a single note produces a strum, If I've read correctly, that's also what a macro note does.
Keyboard midifile Intro's/Endings sound like they are going to be the least of my problems, haa haa, fortunately I've been manually converting those for years in midifile format.