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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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After working with Real Tracks for the past few weeks, I'd have to agree with Graham about the acoustic bass being too 'busy'...my needs were for a basic jazz quartet, with me on live piano, and the BIAB RT on bass, drums, and guitar.... I'm using the MegaPAK, so maybe my RT options are limited, but ALL of the RTs for these instruments, in my opinion, way overplay their parts... to my ears, it sounds like they are all soloing at the same time - making for a very incoherent mix - so much so that my wife, the vocalist, struggles to hear the '1' and even what key they are in... Even the 'very simple' acoustic bass RT is WAY too busy... are there no 'basic' RTs to be found?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I've been using RealTracks since they came out, and have about 50 rendered to wav. There is a mix there, and we mostly play 'standards'. I have no problem coming in and out, picking up the horn, playing a verse on piano, her on flute or horn. I used to sing, but no longer, however. I don't have issues with the above. Perhaps for simpler tastes it would be very easy to do a bass count 1 style, bass 1 and 3 style, then all you'd get is G nothing nothing nothing nothing G nothing...etc. The other would be counter bass as in G nothing C nothing G nothing..etc. That would drive me nuts. I do find it odd that these bass players are 'overdoing it.' I guess I've gotta go hear Neil in Toronto again and listen to his group. Here's a vid where he's playing with Terry Clark and Bill Mays, but I think he's on the solo only about 2:14 or so. http://new.music.yahoo.com/neil-swainson/Midi bass lines can easily be done, then the edit/freeze thing can be done. In a group most bass midi is ok. Gives you the ultimate solution as long as you have a good synth you should get a really good sound.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Love Neil's playing. Just the kind of bassist I like to work with. It's more interplay than being busy.I think I mentioned before Neil's playing is for the more modern jazz musicians. Swing and trad players would of course prefer much simpler bass lines. Modern bassists are more than just time keepers. Just listen to Scott LaFaro back in '60s with Bill Evans. He wasn't just a time keeper. The interplay between Scott and Bill was phenomenal. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I think a some people are missing the point here. There is nothing at all wrong with Neil Swainson's playing, or his style, in real life. What is very wrong is the way the samples of his playing have been selected and stitched together in the programming of the BB RealTracks. As I said before, the walking baselines are just not logical. Also Neil does not use anywhere near as many fancy runs and embellishments in his actual playing.
I already did the task of listening to Neil, admittedly on recordings, and then comparing this to the RealTracks we have. I agree about the 'interplay' comment above, particularly at the slower tempos. But I still feel the RealTracks are a misrepresentation of his playing.
Is it possible that Neil's line were analysed as though they were a one or two-bar bass groove, that you might use in rock music? That will not work for jazz walking bass, of course. See my previous post on how one bar is supposed to run into the next.
I think PG Music has to start again with these jazz bass lines - even the new 'simple' and 'very simple' ones. I still find them very annoying to play against.
I wonder how Neil feels?
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Here is a WMA Yamaha Mega Voice Bass Demo from my Tyros keyboard. You have to use Yamaha's Mega Enhancer software to replace the standard patches with these and it only works with Yamaha's keyboard's and sound modules that have the Mega Voices. My keyboard is about 7 years old now. Trax
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I think a some people are missing the point here. There is nothing at all wrong with Neil Swainson's playing, or his style, in real life. What is very wrong is the way the samples of his playing have been selected and stitched together in the programming of the BB RealTracks. As I said before, the walking baselines are just not logical. Also Neil does not use anywhere near as many fancy runs and embellishments in his actual playing.
I already did the task of listening to Neil, admittedly on recordings, and then comparing this to the RealTracks we have. I agree about the 'inerplay' comment above, particularly at the slower tempos. But I still feel the RealTracks are a misrepresentation of his playing.
Is it possible that Neil's line were analysed as though they were a one or two-bar bass groove, that you might use in rock music? That will not work for jazz walking bass, of course. See my previous post on how one bar is supposed to run into the next.
I think PG Music has to start again with these jazz bass lines - even the new 'simple' and 'very simple' ones. I still find them very annoying to play against.
I wonder how Neil feels?
You put it very well Graham in this post and your previous ones. I am surprised more jazz players haven't complained about it. Surely if the programmers can get midi bass to be reasonably "logical" when playing different chords, they could do the same with the real bass tracks. Hopefully someone at PG music is reading this post and will work on it in future updates
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Surely if the programmers can get midi bass to be reasonably "logical" when playing different chords, they could do the same with the real bass tracks. Hopefully someone at PG music is reading this post and will work on it in future updates
+1
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Since I have "Kontakt" from NI I say: excellent!
It is all true that MIDI will not transport so many "articualtions" or specific sound for instruments.
The trick of Kontakt to make it sound real: Each instrument has specifics and they can be "scripted". An acoustic bass player might use string one for an F and the same string for a G but another string for an A. This "intelligence" is built into Kontakt. Changing position on the same string will sound different inbetween the notes than using another string. In addition acoustic bass fretless and a part of its "charm" comes from some slightly out of tune notes. Tahts all built in. Next to the excellent samples used.
With this "scripting" technology even a riff recorded from a midi keyboard can sound very convincing "bass-like". Because Kontakt automagically "adds" the queek and noise and stuff a bass would do.
On the other hand: brass licks are still way behind the real thing. Solo brass instruments are so-so... and WAY behind RealTracks.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have heard some astonishing things done with General MIDI. You can do them, too, if you're willing to massage your tracks some.
A friend sent me a MIDI cover of a Beatles song with Paul playing the Hofner. As I recall, he mixed upright bass with a little steel-string acoustic guitar in the same octave to get the bottom along with the brightness of round-wound strings. It was very convincing, even on my cheap soundcard.
If I was going to do the same thing with upright bass, I'd likely try adding some fretless, especially if I was going to do much in the upper registers. Most GM uprights I've heard start sounding kinda 'tinky' up there.
I myself have done some beautiful things by mixing, say, piano voices with some of the GM pads. The results were great. The better your GM source, the better the results. Off the subject, possibly, but I never ran out of combinations I could use in GM.
Today this is called "layering" and is done routinely in software instruments such as Kontakt or Reason. But that's cheating, innit? I thought we were talking about straight GM.
In the mid 1990s I was limited to 16 MIDI tracks in whatever sequencer I was using at the time. Today we have 48 available in Real Band and effectively unlimited tracks in most mainstream DAWs. Layer away. Use The Force. Make Byootiful Music.
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Quote:
Surely if the programmers can get midi bass to be reasonably "logical" when playing different chords, they could do the same with the real bass tracks. Hopefully someone at PG music is reading this post and will work on it in future updates
+1
Very good question. Go to garitan.com and click on jazz and big band and any track. Just don't try to run it with biab. This is crimianl since pg music sold it to me. P retty G reedy music? They know it's not general midi compliant but hey..... it's jist biddnis.
Ron
`15 Audiophile, Toshiba17", 3Mhz, 4gig ram, 500gig HD, Win7, Tascam 122mkII interface, Tascam 16 track 8 buss recording mixer, 2 Avalon747sps,CAD VX2 mic, AKG C1000s, mac and Digital Performer.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Ron,
I'm sorry that you have that attitude.
A wise old musician once taught me that it is possible to catch way more flies with honey than with vinegar - provided, of course, that your goal is to catch the flies in the first place.
I'm not a representative of PGMusic, just a user of their fine accompaniment software for many years and have hung out hear on the forum trying to help others solve problems.
That said, I can also state unequivocally that this particular outfit is indeed a LOT different from the type of situation that you are assuming and trying to paint of them.
Yes, there are frustrations to be found in this software, there are some specific issues that by now I can tell you don't ever seem to get sorted out, but I do not believe for one instant that these problems are due to the development team (or any other dept.) at PGMusic not caring about their product or their customers.
This is from firsthand experience in dealing with this company for more than a decade now.
I too have lost time over certain issues, but in the overall have also way more good times with Band in a Box than bad. Made some money with it, too (grin).
Compared to *many* other software companies in this world, PGMusic has shown a rather outstanding record of doing GOOD BIDNESS in my experience.
It is my hope that you will stick with it long enough to experience the same for yourself, as there is a wealth of good stuff for you there.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Compared to *many* other software companies in this world, PGMusic has shown a rather outstanding record of doing GOOD BIDNESS in my experience.
I am into recording for 30+ years now, DAW user ever since they appeared but very new to Band-In-A-Box. The latter I use for composing and creating some background tracks for overdubbing later. I have NEVER been as efficient as I am now. I found some "odd" things or even bugs quite early. But no show stopper yet. Even as a novice I was able to produce the output I wanted and more than once I was just surpised how good it finally sounded. BIAB is just great and worth every cent. I should admit though that I do all the finalizing and polishing by cutting/re-arranging/mixing in my DAW. Thats what a DAW is for, finally. BIAB is for finding ideas, trying out stuff, composing and creating early versions of new music, no?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have used JABB with BIAB for a few years without a problem. I set up a Sax trio
and a Trumpet trio and use the the bass and piano with Real Drums. Works very well
although I am not a fan of the horn sounds and would only use them for practice.
Dave
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
BIAB is for finding ideas, trying out stuff, composing and creating early versions of new music, no?
Right in one!
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
<...>It is all true that MIDI will not transport so many "articualtions" or specific sound for instruments. <...>
With all due respect, this statement is absolutely false, unless you are referring to the synth you mention, Kontakt (and others).
Some synths will not reproduce them, but others will indeed. The Physical Modeling Synth I use with my wind synth (Yamaha VL70m) will reproduce 90-95% of the articulations of other instruments, and add a few of it's own.
I've fooled many guitarists into thinking my synth playing was a guitar - I even got the ultimate compliment in a major guitar forum - Your guitar playing is Jeff Beck-ish. In the thousands of guitarists on the forum, not one could tell it was a synth. When I revealed the secret, they were amazed - however one guitarist said in re-listening he though the whammy vibrato was a tiny bit too smooth.
I fooled a trumpet player who was listening in another room enough to come into our room to see who was sitting in on trumpet.
Perhaps Kontakt can't do this, but other synths can.
The thing about MIDI is that it all comes down to your synthesizer. The acoustic bass on either my Yamaha VL70m or my Korg i3 sounds good enough and is expressive enough to do the job extremely well. The few acoustic bass things they will not do are things that the above average listener could not hear anyway.
I'm a lifelong pro Tenor sax player, there are many times when I reach for my VL70m/WX5 (controller) instead of my acoustic sax on the gig. Why? Although they synth sax only does about 90% of what the acoustic sax does, it also offers me some things that the acoustic sax cannot do.
It's all in the synth module, and the player's ability to use the synth module.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Quote:
<...>It is all true that MIDI will not transport so many "articualtions" or specific sound for instruments. <...>
With all due respect, this statement is absolutely false, unless you are referring to the synth you mention, Kontakt (and others).
I am with you. I should have written "GM MIDI" and not just "MIDI" because that is what this thread is all about. Whenever you can use some available MIDI controllers in a very specific way together with a specific synth then you are right, of course.
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And a good G-MIDI synth has all 128 continuous controllers available so it can sound extremely expressive.
The only difference between a General MIDI synth and a non GM synth is that in GMidi the acoustic bass is always patch 33. In one of my non GM synths it's 42. The bass (or other) patch on a GM synth can be of cheesy quality, like the ones in most computer sound cards, or it can be of absolute stellar quality.
Consider the work done by most keyboard players since the Yamaha DX-7 was introduced in the early 80s. By the 90s even the keyboard greats of the time like Rick Wakeman and Keith Emerson were playing new synths. And between the black and white keys and the sound generating part of virtually every digital keyboard is our old friend MIDI.
The fact that MIDI is still used today, reflects the foresight and flexibility of the engineers who wrote the specifications.
Don't want to carry around a 400+ pound B3 organ to the gig? There is a little MIDI synth that will do the job.
Don't want to hire a string section? There is a little MIDI synth that will do the job.
Don't want to hire an acoustic bass player? There is a little MIDI synth that will do the job.
In most cases, if the synth of good quality and is played well, most musicians will not be able to tell the difference. And the synth and player are good, the audience will not notice that it's a synth.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Quote:
This is crimianl since pg music sold it to me. P retty G reedy music? They know it's not general midi compliant but hey..... it's jist biddnis.
Ron
Pretty Greedy Music. Cute. You are an IDIOT Ron. Biab will work just fine with JABB you just have to jump through some hoops, it's not idiotproof simple like GM is but the tradeoff is it sounds much better than most GM synths. It's your choice if you want to keep things complex or simple and if you don't like it use the money back guarantee.
Glad to know it's not just me who sets you off. What's your excuse this time, buddy?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I just wanted to say that all the complaints I made in this topic have been corrected in the RealTracks 1-121 Updates - May 1 2008 to Feb 4 2011 (Full) which I downloaded for my Audiophile version on an external hard drive two days ago. I tested the different jazz walking bass lines today and I cannot find anything to complain about. In fact, everything we suggested has been done. An excellent job from the PG development crew!
I did post a separate topic advising of this but did not like to leave this one looking as though nothing had been done. It has and personally I am well pleased!
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PDT today!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the amazing new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. View the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to transcribe an entire track or transcribe specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Mac® to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
Holiday Weekend Hours
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Today's the Last Day of the Band-in-a-Box 2026® for Mac Special!
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Check out all the new features in the redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.
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202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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